some definitive details required , from experience not just opinions please. :-)

[JonBoi25]

Hi all,

While my engine is out I have fitted a blue gates racing belt.

Since posting about this I've done some digging and I'm still on the fence.

I'm looking to get around 350hp give or take long term but will continue with standard hardware for the moment.

I've got a reville oem spec vibration damper to fit, and a oem belt from tps.

Someone said blue belts are better used with manual tensioner as if over tensioned they will get warm :-/.
But they withstand higher temps than oem belts.
I would also need to monitor the belt condition and likely have to replace it and service sooner if always driving it hard.

I've also had it said oem belts have been used on higher bhp builds and not seen issues. And don't need renewing for a decent mileage.

Any info would be great people

Many thanks.

 

[<tuffty/>]

With modified engines all bets are off...

My tuppence.... I did a lot of research when building my engine so lets look at the reasoning behind the desire to fit a Gates belt... when going high power (and I mean big turbo high power) you need to build an engine that revs... as a result you will need to upgrade the valvetrain to support the power and revs which normally means at the very least stiffer springs to prevent valve float at high rpm and normally replacement valves for reliability etc.. this adds load to the rotational assembly of the head which adds strain etc to the cam belt system... Cams are another thing to consider too... they add yet more loading...

The Gates belt is alleged to be stronger and is made from kevlar so is debated to be more suitable under this loading... however I have seen more discussions on gates belt failure at this spec than OE belts so I went OE...

Manual tensioners... the OE tensioner damper does what it says on the tin... its a damper... it acts on the tensioner pulley to take up slack but also gives a little on sudden loading absorbing the shock so not to stress the belt... this sounds perfect apart from they are not very reliable...

People have been fitting manual setups for years... manufacturers most likely went over to the damper setup to mitigate risk of an incorrectly tensioned belts and to improve service times... using a manual setup on a high spec engine means that you have more control over the tension and its one less component to fail (as the dampers do fail regularly)

An alternative is the kit I sourced from Pag Parts which is a revised tensioned pulley (much like the newer dervs and TFSI's) which is a kind of best of both worlds... you have the benefits of a manual tensioner but the 'give' of a damped setup to absorb sudden loads

I wouldn't use a Gates belt period!.... I have no confidence in them... bu I believe most of the failures were on manual tensioner setups and it would seem that the gates belt is more sensitive to tension and sudden loadings whereas the OEM belt has a little more give..

That said... you cannot expect OE service times on a high spec engine... I myself do very little mileage anyway, just over 6000 miles in the two or so years since mine was built... I will be adjusting service times accordingly and lifeing components accordingly

On an engine built to the spec you say you have I see no reason at all to stick to anything other than OE kit... OE belt, OE damper etc...

Heat is not an issue on any engine I have seen or had a hand in building... maybe it is on yank builds

<tuffty/>

 

[JonBoi25]

With modified engines all bets are off...

My tuppence.... I did a lot of research when building my engine so lets look at the reasoning behind the desire to fit a Gates belt... when going high power (and I mean big turbo high power) you need to build an engine that revs... as a result you will need to upgrade the valvetrain to support the power and revs which normally means at the very least stiffer springs to prevent valve float at high rpm and normally replacement valves for reliability etc.. this adds load to the rotational assembly of the head which adds strain etc to the cam belt system... Cams are another thing to consider too... they add yet more loading...

The Gates belt is alleged to be stronger and is made from kevlar so is debated to be more suitable under this loading... however I have seen more discussions on gates belt failure at this spec than OE belts so I went OE...

Manual tensioners... the OE tensioner damper does what it says on the tin... its a damper... it acts on the tensioner pulley to take up slack but also gives a little on sudden loading absorbing the shock so not to stress the belt... this sounds perfect apart from they are not very reliable...

People have been fitting manual setups for years... manufacturers most likely went over to the damper setup to mitigate risk of an incorrectly tensioned belts and to improve service times... using a manual setup on a high spec engine means that you have more control over the tension and its one less component to fail (as the dampers do fail regularly)

An alternative is the kit I sourced from Pag Parts which is a revised tensioned pulley (much like the newer dervs and TFSI's) which is a kind of best of both worlds... you have the benefits of a manual tensioner but the 'give' of a damped setup to absorb sudden loads

I wouldn't use a Gates belt period!.... I have no confidence in them... bu I believe most of the failures were on manual tensioner setups and it would seem that the gates belt is more sensitive to tension and sudden loadings whereas the OEM belt has a little more give..

That said... you cannot expect OE service times on a high spec engine... I myself do very little mileage anyway, just over 6000 miles in the two or so years since mine was built... I will be adjusting service times accordingly and lifeing components accordingly

On an engine built to the spec you say you have I see no reason at all to stick to OE kit... OE belt, OE damper etc...

Heat is not an issue on any engine I have seen or had a hand in building... maybe it is on yank builds

<tuffty/>

Thanks for your response tufty,

In the last comment did you mean you see no reason not to keep oem stuff ?.

Ive got the gates belt which I'm told is decent and had very little issues with after looking online :-/.
Apparently 034 motorsport had blue race belts made with kev large and they had issues but since they have altered the design I believe there is very little if no kevlar in the newer gates race belts.

It's a tricky one really, 350 bhp will be plenty so I don't see any need for excessive belt strength.

Perhaps tomorrow then I'll fit the oem belt back on for now.

 

[<tuffty/>]

...In the last comment did you mean you see no reason not to keep oem stuff ?.

Sorry... have re-edited to correct the misunderstanding....

So yes, no reason not to continue using OE stuff in this context...

If 034 have removed the kevlar from the Gates belts then whats the advantage?... still wouldn't trust one myself...

<tuffty/>

 

[JonBoi25]

Cheers Tufty,

From what I've researched the old kevlar ones had a couple issues so they really called them.

Newer versions no longer contain kevlar but still yield higher tensile strength. Using tougher materials.

I see where your coming from, think I may go back to oem tomorrow.
With the oem auto tensioner and pistons dampener.

I got a reville one from Gsf, oem quality.

This should be fine right ?

Thanks

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ones I have seen from GSF tend to have the 4 rings machined off and I have used them myself in the past...

GSF have been a bit rubbish on parts recently if I am honest... not heard of reville or seen one in the flesh so I can't comment...

<tuffty/>