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Oil temperature higher and idle tick

PaulJC84 Aug 12, 2017

  1. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Taken the car on its first decent run in years yesterday. Edinburgh to Plockton and then up to Applecross and back to Plockton.

    If my memory correct I think the normal oil temp is around 90C.

    At points on the Applecross Pass the oil was up at 120C and would be mainly around 100C.

    Today I noticed on start up the car sounds a bit ticky at idle and low revs on start up. The car was hot and I had the door open.
    I am sure under hard boost with the window down the turbo sounds a bit louder too.

    Any ideas?

    Blocked sump pickup or a gasket leak?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  3. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Check the coolant temps, in intake temps and ambient temps. Service history? Oil condition? Water pump condition?
     
  4. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    I have had the car since 18k and it's almost on 99k now. Oil changed every 5k or year whichever comes first.
    Coolant temp stayed at 90C but I know there is a lag on the gauge.
    Belts and water pump are due at the end of this year as were done 4.5 years ago. Probably only 10k miles ago max.
     
  5. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    The rise in oil temp would be from more heat energy in the oil possibly from increased internal frictions due to engine wear. The grade of oil has changed with lighter oils accepting heat more quickly than it can get rid of it meaning the overall temperature remains higher than before. Lastly the heat exchanger, the oil cooler has become furred or blocked up to a degree and can't exchange it's heat as readily to the coolant as it used to and so the oil temperature stays higher than previously. Ambient temperature and loading will also affect this heat exchanging process giving a less of temperature difference for the oil to exchange heat to. This can raise the average temperature level of the oil over a prolonged duration of operation.
     
  6. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Actually driving today I think the gauge sender is perhaps faulty. Jumped right up to 140C and I was like oh no. After a minute it fell straight down to 80C in one sweep. Seems to be moving around anywhere from 120C to 80c generally on flat routes.

    The ticking seems to be at start up for maybe 5 seconds so will need to see what that is.
    Thinking strainer, gasket leak or cam tensioner.
     
  7. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Get the vag com on it and it should tell you the proper oil temp.

    The rattling could be the cam chain tensioner or the cat on it's way out.
     
  8. Retroman

    Retroman Audi A3 2010 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 (CBBB engine)

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    Whilst the coolant temp gauge should sit at around 90C, engine manufacturers design (standard) modern engines to run oil temps typically 100C - 120C in order to 1) Drive off potentially harmful internal water vapour caused by the combustion process 2) minimise emissions (a hot engine is a clean burning engine) and 3) to provide maximum lubrication/power as cold engine oil produces "drag". Normal (standard) synthetic engine oils can cope with up to 150C with racing engines requiring something more special.
     
  9. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Ah cool. I was sure the oil normally sat around 90C. Just nursing the car home as off boost as possible to hopefully avoid as much damage as possible.
    Not had an oil pressure light so pressure hopefully that is ok.
    Car seems to tick on start up when cold and then when it's been really hot.
    Will get it checked out during the week hopefully.
    Think I will check the turbo shaft, oil strainer and scan the car.
     
  10. Lowfield

    Lowfield Member

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    All my Audis have "ticked" when stationary. Especially heard with window down and parked next to a wall or other stationary car in traffic. I always assumed it was the injectors.
     
  11. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    View live coolant temp data using the climate control panel:

    Press recirc and up arrow together
    display shows 1c
    use temp +/- to make it say 49c
    Press recirc again.

    The display will now show you the live engine temperature.

    Could be something like a cracked water pump if it is running hot.
     
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  13. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Well oil light eventually came on for a second. Pulled in and waiting for a flatbed to take the car to a garage near me.
    Hopefully not too much damage has been done!
    Engine was ticking louder but not as bad as the ones I have heard on YouTube.
     
  14. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    If you stopped immediately it'll probably be fine. When i killed my track car engine it beeped two or three times and i kept stopping and then going back out. I had no oil pressure guage and stupidly assumed it was a faulty sensor as i'd replaced the pump already. Third time i got bored of stopping and kept going when the warning came on. A lap later it siezed. Turned out, some hard carbon debris had become detatched from the inside of the engine and made its way into the sump, where it gathered up in the pickup gauze. Despite it siezing, i swapped the turbo onto the replacement engine and it worked fine.

    Also, fit a new oil pump, dont just mess with cleaning the strainer. Its such an **** to get into on the B5, its not worth doing half a job.
     
  15. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Cheers for the advice guys.

    So got the car to a mates garage. Checked the oil level and since yesterday morning it's about half a litre lower.

    Put in some oil and one of the mechanics started the car. It tapped for around 3 seconds and then was normal. Was quite smokey though.

    Left the car there but I am wondering if it's the turbo. Going to check the shaft for play tomorrow.

    Also sounded like the manifold was blowing slightly.

    If I need a new turbo I then have to think if I want to change it for a different one but first things first.

    So when the sump is off I should get the oil pump replaced as well as the strainer?
     
  16. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    The turbo wouldnt magically bring on the oil light. Theres without doubt an oil pressure issue, and that means replacing the pump. Theres no point just doing the strainer on a B5. Its a complete **** getting the sump off unlike a transverse engine, so when your in there just do it properly. You also cant buy the strainer on its own for a B5, it comes with the pump.

    And its almost always fine when cold. The oils thick and pressure comes up just fine. Half a litre of oil wouldnt matter at all, i've run mine down off the dipstick before with no issues. Even my siezed engine unsiezed itself and ran completely normally when cold. No noises or rattles, if i hadnt known better i'd have thaught it was fine. I fitted an oil pressure guage and while the oil pressure was perfect when cold, once it warmed up the pressure dropped off, and started acting very oddly. Took the sump off and one of the big ends had spun.
     
  17. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Ok thanks for the info. I would certainly have replace everything I need to when it's opened up.

    Any idea of the part number of the pump and strainer?

    Just hope after doing that things are ok and it's not done any other damage.
     
  18. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    So car has been sitting in the workshop for 3 weeks and garage finally had a quick look at the car.

    They whipped the airbox to turbo hose off to have a quick check in there and there was quite a lot of oil. There is a bit of play in the shaft for that as well.

    The turbo was sounding a bit louder on boost.

    Would it be possible for the oil pressure light to come on if the turbo started drinking lots of oil?

    Still planning on getting the sump checked but the garage think its the turbo. Don't really want to fit a new one and it to be damaged if there is another issue.

    Also as the turbo is going to need replacing. What is the best option? Hybrid, rebuild, new?
     
  19. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Sump, pump and lump.

    Just sounded good. Roughly put what Aragon said. Oil pump and strainer.

    Turbo will need refurbished. Max end float is 0.2mm absolute max and the tolerance that is recommended is 0.15mm.

    Compression test for the block might highlight damage but would it cause anymore damage? Turn the engine by hand to check for rough spots.
     
  20. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Thanks, definitely going to get the sump cleared and a new pump.

    Spoke to BBT and they no longer do A4 turbos, just A3. Think I will just get a refurbed K03 on it. Euros seem to do them for around £400. Will replace the oil feed and gaskets at the same time.
     
  21. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Bore scope will let you inspect the cylinder chambers before you fork out a load I dough. Test the coolant for exhaust as well. Have to go now.
     
  22. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Thought I would update this almost a year on.........

    So the car was washed and stuck in the garage under a cover, where it sat until 4 weeks ago. I decided I would drain the oil and replace with some fresh stuff and new filter. I always though I used the longer filters but got a transporter one. Gosh those are huge.

    I pulled out the oil pressure switch from the oil filter housing and plumbed in a pressure gauge.

    I was wanting to see how the oil pressure was as I found it hard to believe my pick up was blocked as the car is serviced every year and was doing under 5k miles a year. Plus it was too big a job for me to do in my garage so though this would rule the pick up being blocked out.

    Tested the pressure it at 1k increments and compared my figures to the numbers on various forums.

    My figures were at the top of each rev range.

    The next weekend I drained the oil and coolant pulled out the airbox, turbo, manifold, intercooler plus all the turbo pipes/hoses.

    I was wanting to see if the oil feed was blocked at all but I blew through it and it seems totally clear. I used some brake cleaner to clean it as well. I planned on replacing this but think I will just use an airline to fully blast through it. I also cleaned out the intercooler as it looked to have a little oil in it but not a huge amount.

    I bought a lot of T bolt clamps for when I refit the intercooler as the jubilee clips were pretty tired looking and I had wanted to replace them for years.

    The turbo shaft had a fair bit of play that I could feel and there were a few cracks in the cast housing but nothing right through.

    Plan is now to replace the turbo, all the gaskets and see how the car is. Belts etc are now due too so will get those done at the same time since the bumper is already off.

    When I started the car to test the pressure the car was sounding good and it was running for about 40 minutes with no issues other than a bit of smoke which I think will be the turbo on its way out. Mainly on short rev ups and downs.

    Only thing I can think has happened is the oil level has gone too low through the turbo seals being past their best.

    I have ordered most of the parts I need other than the water pump/belt kit and a turbo plus exhaust/manifold gaskets.
     
    Samuel c5 Q likes this.
  23. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Finally looking at getting a turbo ordered.

    Think this is the OEM one
    https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...e-turbocharger-for-vag-18t-150bhp-p-2027.html

    And this is the later updated one which I think I will get
    https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...e-turbocharger-for-vag-18t-150bhp-p-2032.html

    The spec sheet has information on a new updated oil feed, is there such a thing as a wider oil feed?
    Also mentions a heat shield for the feed. pant no. 058129585B
    http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/shop/download/5303-988-0029.pdf

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/heat-shield/058129585b/
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  24. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    Spoke to turbo dynamics today and they want an extra £100 as my turbo is the 005 so they would not take this back as surcharge.

    Probably going to have to end up with a like for like unit as don’t really want to pay £740 for the 029 when the 005 is about £200 cheaper.

    Also saw some new turbos forsale on eBay by driven2automotive for about £100 less. But never heard of them, whereas know turbo dynamics have been around for ages.
     
  25. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    i would get an -073 if your buying new
     
  26. PaulJC84

    PaulJC84 Owner

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    I hoped you may give an opinion as I know you have been over the options in the past.

    I looked for a BEX turbo as well and they are around £900 from Turbo-Dynamics which I thought was just a bit more than I was hoping to spend.
    https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...turbo-for-audi-18t-quattro-190bhp-p-2037.html

    I did find the below website (turbo-diesel.co.uk) and they are cheaper (£700) but I am not familiar with this retailer.
    https://turbo-diesel.co.uk/product/...b-06b145703bv-audi-a4-bex-k03-new-borgwarner/


    The replacement new -005 is £550 which is not too much more expensive than some of the local motorfactor refurbished ones.
    https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...e-turbocharger-for-vag-18t-150bhp-p-2027.html
     

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