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Lag - Delay - Hesitation

CH 12 May 7, 2017

  1. Klickflip

    Klickflip Quattro 4 life

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    Definitely not poor driving , that’s really patronising .
    Even if your car doesn’t have the lag , you would have to experience one that does .
    Take a normal right turn or busy roundabout scenario.
    - there is a gap in busy traffic , a reasonable gap but not huge. You have about 20 car lengths or 4 secs gap to pull out into.
    Sounds safe .. you take foot off brake put foot down quickly and 1/3rd to 1/2 way down.
    Nothing happens at all , car does not move ... nada for 1 whole second.
    Then car moves out slowly at 2-5 mph , you push throttle further down.
    Your throttle actions of the last 2 or do seconds are by no way relative to how long or fast the car has moved from taking foot off the brake .
    And by this point the car approaching is getting close , they beep or flash you as in their eyes you have pulled out really slowly (like a nervous blind granny!)
    Now by this time the car decides to engage clutch or fly by wire as you intended 3 send ago and all the power rushes to the wheels , putting you in a another but very different situation .
    You suddenly catapult from a crawl to full speed , often getting under steer and over turning you have to correct and next having to brake because you now shot to 35mph in 2secs , catching up the gap of car that was a huge way ahead .

    Basically , the car does not move when you put foot down from a standstill . Then the throttle fly by wire dies not transmit the actual revs you have given it relative to foot throttle position .
    Further the clutch is feathering throttle in.
    So when the system decides to act normal again you have a lot of power going down suddenly getting sent up wheels .
    And if it’s a Quattro , there will be no wheel spin you will launch like a delayed launch control !

    Ideally I’ve learnt to try and keep rolling into a junction even if it means leaving a big gap as you roll to junctions , which can **** off cars behind that they get dangerously close.
     
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  3. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call it poor driving and the dsg has a reputation amongst certain owners for what you are describing. I did research the gearbox considerably before I purchased my car, and tested various cars with both dsg and automatic gearboxes, and it was an area of concern. However I was pleasantly surprised and seem to have one that is ok, or I have adapted to it immediately.
    I do feel that diesel turbo lag may also play a strong part in this.

    You mention Mercedes being better, however, in my research into my new CLA a number of owners are complaining just as much with the A180 and A200 setups, but not with the A250 and I know that in other models the complaints about them being lazy are high...
     
  4. ZZidane

    ZZidane Member

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    I'm currently experimenting with manual to see if that helps.
     
    cuke2u likes this.
  5. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure all this is drive by wire related and the often built in delay so people of very mature years can drive.

    Pedal box / Sprint Booster should sort :icon thumright:
     
  6. The Jargen

    The Jargen Active Member

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    While it is drive by wire related, its nothing to do with slowing people down and probably due to meeting emission targets.
     
  7. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    What you are really stating is that us 'mature' drivers have more skills than younger ones to deal with this issue...
     
    Gazwould likes this.
  8. LukeHawk

    LukeHawk Member

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    What kills me about this is the inconsistency. With mine, it happens sometimes, and other times it's incredibly responsive. I never know what to expect when going from slowing down/stopping to suddenly accelerating. If it was always the same, I could learn to adapt, but it's a mixed bag for me. This is all in comfort mode, and "D", I seldom go to dynamic or even just "S" mode..... fuel is expensive these days.
     
    Aldi-Sport Chap likes this.
  9. shadenville

    shadenville New Member

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    I’ve recently had a gearbox (TCU I guess) update applied by Swindon Audi and its made a big difference to the previously laggy/delayed gearbox.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    cuke2u likes this.
  10. Aldi-Sport Chap

    Aldi-Sport Chap Spacer Hater

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    I totally agree about the inconsistency but sadly mine can never vbe described as "incredibly responsive" just less laggy. Today, in fact over the last few days, it's been awful. Next thing I will notice is a DPF regen and it will improve. It sort of proves it's an emissions issue.

    Today in stop/start traffic I could floor it and release as many times as I wanted and there was ZERO response. I have to press the pedal and wait circa 1-1.5 seconds for it to bite and move off. Auto mode, dynamic, efficiency, it makes no difference.
    Later on, joining a dual carriage way, I was slowly picking up speed then I pressed the accelerator a tad more to match the cars' speed ahead and it lagged, slept and then decided to do as I'd asked. Mrs Aldi, as a passenger said she felt it "sort of die" before increasing acceleration. I felt the same but just thought it was just my mind as I knew I'd pressed the pedal and nothing happened. Obviously it's even worse than that. It is utterly *****. I have the use of a jag with the ZF8 and the difference is staggering, instant response. Yes it's petrol, yes it's supercharged not turbocharged which makes me think this has multiple, cumulative causes but mainly linked to emissions.
     
  11. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    Does the VAG DSG zero memory trick of ignition on in D or N engine not running, hold accelerator to floor for 7-10 seconds during which you might hear a click do anything to improve gearbox performance in those situations ?
    That said, it's not hard to pop it into sport on approach to roundabouts which seems to avoid any propensity for lag.

    Dingah
     
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  13. Aldi-Sport Chap

    Aldi-Sport Chap Spacer Hater

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    Go on tell me how to put it in D with the engine not running:tonguewink:

    Seriously though I tried it in N, I did hear a click but it is just as awful. No change. Last night while avoiding the M25 NCP at a few T junctions I frightened myself as it just will not go. Twice I saw a big gap and twice I had to give up and just wait for a bigger gap. Twice the Mrs asked if I was being indecicive. No, I said, "I've decided this is my last s-tronic 'box":rage:. After 26000 miles in this thing I can't get used to it and it isn't cos I'm old!!

    Sport has no effect on the delay, in fact it often exacerbates the problem as when the ECU (or whatever) wakes up it takes off even more ferociously. Being FWD and unleashing a good percentage of its 218 ponies when you don't expect it tends to test the ASR quite nicely!

    A good car ruined. A very good car. Roll on Sep '20 when the lease is up.....
     
  14. PhilM

    PhilM Member

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    Did they give you a reference for the TCU software update?

    Mines in for service with them in 2 weeks and I might ask them to tag this on if possible (they have arranged a courtesy car so not fussed if it take a a little longer to complete)
     
  15. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    Handbrake on, ignition on engine not running select D then try it.
    You do not need to have engine running to select D.
    If 'Sport' makes no difference this is nothing to do with your gearbox.

    Dingah
     
  16. Aldi-Sport Chap

    Aldi-Sport Chap Spacer Hater

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    I can do that in our Golf, you can do that in your Tiguan but it doesn't work with the electric gearnob. It will go into neutral but not D. Not even in your S4ZF.

    As for the S vs D yes I tend to agree. Also the whole feeling varies (gets worse) as a DPF regen approaches but there seems to be a link to the clutch uptake as well as slow throttle response. Maybe it is some type of anti-stall occcuring and it really is nothing to do with the 'box.

    It's still ruined though:frowning:

    It has had a ECU update. It had a noticeable effect at the time but has reverted, in fact probably worse as the miles rack up.
     
  17. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    Clutching at straws - I wonder if removing battery connect for a couple of hours to remove all electronic memory would restore normality?

    Dingah
     
  18. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Nope, you need to perform a reset of the gearbox TCU, which is way way more complex than removing battery connections....
     
  19. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    Not specifically targeting the gearbox per se.
     
  20. Aldi-Sport Chap

    Aldi-Sport Chap Spacer Hater

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    Has anyone actually disconnected their battery successfully? I hear it needs a VCDS reset when it has a new battery. I watched mine have a reset when it was replaced. However, I also hear that all it does is load the service history with the battery replacement. Either way it's a big step. I remember changing the battery on a 2004 A3 and had to reset all sorts afterwards such as electric windows and the like. I'm tech savvy but more spannertech than wigglyamptech!
     
  21. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Changing the battery might require the car to recognise the new one however disconnecting will not...
     
  22. Filipão

    Filipão Active Member

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    On a sideline, my battery has gone flat 3 times and I had no issues whatsoever after jump starting the S4.
     
  23. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    A painful 2.5 year, 7 page thread .

    Only a handful have come up with the answer to this initial setting off throttle delay and no one has done it !

    These sub £200 devices usually with a 30 day trial period remove the slow built in throttle plate opening that can't be replicated with the stomp of a right foot .

    A Q5 2.0tdi S-tronic I found to have a long delay and unusually long pedal input to get it moving .


    DTE / DTUK Pedal box
    Pedal Commander
    Sprint Booster
    Racechip XLR

    Absolutely hundreds of YouTube video reviews with positive results .
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  24. shadenville

    shadenville New Member

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    No, but with OBDeleven I did a complete system dump before the service/updates and again afterwards - so I can see the version numbers in the relevant modules changed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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    Hi. Did someone manage to fix or reduce the issue?
    I have audi a7 bitdi 15 plate and it does exactly the same. You put your foot down and it takes a long time to move at the junction or roundabout. I haw done 5k miles and it haven't changed at all. Even after servicing gearbox car feels the same. It's a slightly better when I put in S but not big different. Normal I drive in D. It's tiptronic gearbox and car has done 60k miles.
    It makes car not as fun to drive as I thought it will be...
    I don't know what to do now...
     
  26. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    TCU tune?
     
  27. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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  28. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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    I found on other forum about that someone done TCU remap with the box from DTUK but he never finished saying what experience he had in longer time...
    I don't want to spend £400+ and have barley any improvement.
     
  29. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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  30. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    Yes cured that horrible dangerous delay and dead early area of pedal travel .

    Actually had more of a result than a remap .
     
  31. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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    I think I will give it a try because the price is not that bad £200. Is sad that you buy 300+ bhp car and it has problems like that.
     
  32. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    I was amazed the drive by wire throttle plate operation affects Porsche , Mini , BMW , Mercedes and alike , even some so called performance ones .
     
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  34. Aldi-Sport Chap

    Aldi-Sport Chap Spacer Hater

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    This again! Yours being a Tiptronic ZF8 and the others being S-Tronic do point to the ECU or throttle. I'd try the remap. Isn't there a money back guarantee like on ECU remaps?

    Mine is still just as awful, however, I happened to hire a brand new B9 2.0 TDI 35 S-Line a few days before lockdown. I believe it was the new 163hp model. It was stunning. Not just by comparison to mine, it was just in a different league. Despite having two too few cylinders and only 66% of the required cubic capacity and thus a defecit in BHP, those are just numbers and it was a far more pleasant vehicle to drive than mine. The power that was there was all useable. I said this would be my last S-Tronic but that was so good I'd happily own one like that.
    So what have they done? Can they fix older models?
     
  35. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    Not all remaps fix this as some have drive by wire coding and some don't.

    The device / devices I mentioned are purposely designed to fix this , have 30 day money back , cost less and actually made more of a difference than a remap and don't invalidate insurance .
     
  36. BigAardvaark

    BigAardvaark Active Member

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    What's your car? There appear to be many models of the device, I *think* for mine it's "RSBD174" but thought I'd quickly ask you before some email tennis with Sprint Boost as their website is next to useless for this purpose.
     
  37. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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    I have had remap ECU in January this year. I thought that it maybe help with this problem but I didn't. The car likes to drive in high gear at low speeds but when I go 70/74mph the car wants to stay in 7 gear...
    I gave test drive it to my brother and he said that my cars response time is much more longer then his a6 c6 3.0tdi. It's like car doesn't know what to do. Change gear to lower and put more power down the wheels..
     
  38. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    With mine in auto mode that's what it is meant to do, in sport mode it will stay in 6th...
     
  39. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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    I don't know the model of the engine. Yes I know but when you do cruising it should go to 8th gear not stay in 7th for long time then decide to go to 8th. I do 60 miles a day and all the time the same trip.
    When I bought in the beginning it would jump fast to 8th gear when cruising.
    Maybe it needs more time to adapt to my driving style after gearbox service. Maybe it got reset when was in the garage...
    Still there is some where the issue with car not knowing what to do when required more power.
    I ordered today Sprint Booster to see if it will help with my issue.
     
  40. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    You have a different gearbox to mine as I believe the zf hp8 torque converter automatic gearbox is fitted, whereas I have the newest twin clutch dsg VAG have produced, the dl-382.
    Taken from Autocar's road test of, I think, your vehicle:
    "The Bi-Turbo A7 is fitted with an eight-speed torque converter automatic as standard compared to the dual-clutch units fitted to the other diesels in the range. The gearbox can feel a little sluggish to delicate accelerator inputs in first, but otherwise it’s quick to respond and switch ratios. It does like to hold onto a ratio far longer than its dual-clutch equivalents would but that does mean being able to exploit the torque available more readily.

    Slot the hefty gearlever into ‘S’ and the gearbox transforms the A7 into the muscular sports coupé that its look and demeanour transmits, with the changes made snappier, and ability to reach the limiter under heavy acceleration before shifting up."
     
  41. ealneas

    ealneas New Member

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    I know that my gerabox is 8 speed tiptronic..
    The Sport mode helps a bit but not a lot. Will hold gears lower at higher rpm. Will feel better to drive but not as good as my brothers 09 a6 with tiptronic gearbox. My car struggles to keep up with his car. It shouldn't be like that because my tubor lag should be smaller and I have more bhp...
    Should be getting box delivered next week. Will see how it goes.
    I use companys car now ( golf 1.6tdi I think) and on the weekends a7.
    When jump back to a7 it feels fast and comfortable..
     
  42. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    It will sort it 100% .

    You are going to love it , I read and watched so many reviews and set to 'Race 9' and loose the ( although minuscule ) controller .

    Don't forget to set the side switch .
     
  43. nora2004

    nora2004 Member

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    For those with the ZF8 box get yourself to Audi and get the TCU updated! Got my S4 end of February and that delay made me hate the car, pretty much had a deal lined up to swap it for a 340i, but thought I'd try pushing Audi first to see if they could do anything, updated both the ecu and tcu and its much better, so much better I ended up keeping the S4!
     

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