Keyless Entry Heads Up

Schizophonic

Registered User
really isn't new new news and this type of robbery has been going on for a while. While thieves are using new tech this type of 'relay' has been filmed and recorded in the past.
 

RichardT

Registered User
I saw this as well. Has been discussed on here before but highlights that with keyless entry you should really use an extra level of security.
But really, if they want it they seem to be able to get it.
 

SRT

Registered User
Just a thought but is the RFID blocking material in my jacket capable of suppressing this type of problem?
 

DaytonaS3

Registered User
Just a thought but is the RFID blocking material in my jacket capable of suppressing this type of problem?

Potentially, a good test would be to put your keys in and try to open the door.

Otherwise faraday pouches on eBay are about a tenner, and do the job blocking the signal.
 
I was talking to my mate about this and he's a master tech - Now I don't have the keyless entry system, but he said on the Audi the key has to be in the car for it to start - He was working on something the other day and had the key in his back pocket and lent in the car to start it and it wouldn't until he put it on the seat with the door open.

The range extender might get it to unlock if someone is trying the door whilst someone else presses the range extender near the house but he couldn't see how it would start - I know this article isn't an Audi

Can anyone confirm this - I have had a courtesy car before and I remember it saying key not in vehicle which I'd put on my bench in the garage
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Perhaps the Mercedes does not have these follow elements of security:
In every Keyless Entry / Go system provisions exist to avoid a successful two-way communication via relay station attack or RSA. Some of the most known are:

Furthermore, Keyless Entry / Go communicates with other Control Units within the same vehicle. Depending on the electric car architecture, the following are some Control Systems that can be enabled or disabled:

  • ESCL Electric Steering Column Lock
  • EIS Electronic Ignition Switch
  • Central door locking system
 

kevpuk

Registered User
I had a (64-plate, FL) CLS before my S3, which had Keyless Go......can't comment on the range of the key for unlocking, but the push button start simply would not operate without the key being within the confines of the car - almost eerie, that it was so accurate, as leaning in to start car, for example, with keys in back pocket and outside the car would not work!
 

cuke2u

Registered User
I had a (64-plate, FL) CLS before my S3, which had Keyless Go......can't comment on the range of the key for unlocking, but the push button start simply would not operate without the key being within the confines of the car - almost eerie, that it was so accurate, as leaning in to start car, for example, with keys in back pocket and outside the car would not work!

The other thing is that when the start/stop on my car kicks in and then I leave the car, say to open security gates, a full manual start with the keys present has to be performed as the car tells me, "the keys are not inside the vehicle a full manual start is required" when I leave it.
 

Daveotto

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Potentially, a good test would be to put your keys in and try to open the door.

Otherwise faraday pouches on eBay are about a tenner, and do the job blocking the signal.

I stick my keys in a metal box, however if they want the car and willing to break in to get the keys, the box is in easy view and has car keys label on it!

Mate of mine is a VW parts manager and has just got a new Tiguan with keyless entry and was advised to keep his keys in the microwave :)
 

JDHOWELLS

Registered User
Its been said on here before but every Audi (all cars with remote keys) is Keyless Entry, none of us put a key in the door, turn it to unlock/lock. Only difference with advanced key other than push button start/stop is not having to physically press a button on the key - the normal remote key is still "Keyless" with regards the opening/closing of the doors.
 
T

T-800

Guest
Get some foil and wrap your keys up (don’t forget the spare).

Very effective.
 

malinmip

Registered User

This kind of "faraday cage" type of product will solve the issue, putting the key into the bag during the night will block the attempts, there is plenty of this kind of stuff available. Search for "faraday bag for car keys" in Amazon UK
 
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Its been said on here before but every Audi (all cars with remote keys) is Keyless Entry, none of us put a key in the door, turn it to unlock/lock. Only difference with advanced key other than push button start/stop is not having to physically press a button on the key - the normal remote key is still "Keyless" with regards the opening/closing of the doors.

Yes but they don't give the lock/unlock signal unless the button is actually pressed - Keyless entry cars as soon as you put your hand in to open the door the car then starts to talk to the key and vice versa which is why the range extenders will work. With the non keyless entry the key is not giving out a signal so the range extender wouldn't work.
 

oli356

Registered User
The conclusion really is, if you have a key your car might be stolen, if you've keyless start your car might be stolen. Just get GAP insurance..
This conclusion is too long..
"If you have a car, it might be stolen" =)

GAP insurance is well worth it anyway imo, £170 over 4 years for mine for a 25k claim benefit, so nothing really.
 

cemerson

Registered User
I was talking to my mate about this and he's a master tech - Now I don't have the keyless entry system, but he said on the Audi the key has to be in the car for it to start - He was working on something the other day and had the key in his back pocket and lent in the car to start it and it wouldn't until he put it on the seat with the door open.

The range extender might get it to unlock if someone is trying the door whilst someone else presses the range extender near the house but he couldn't see how it would start - I know this article isn't an Audi

Can anyone confirm this - I have had a courtesy car before and I remember it saying key not in vehicle which I'd put on my bench in the garage

The whole point of this attack is that it's a relay signal. One box reads the signal from the key by being poked through the letterbox or whatever, and the other box can be wherever you want to make the car think the key is.
 

DeanoC

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
The whole point of this attack is that it's a relay signal. One box reads the signal from the key by being poked through the letterbox or whatever, and the other box can be wherever you want to make the car think the key is.
Exactly. Very simple to stop. RFID wallet and do something with the OBD to stop them cloning key//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5a1e4e31b0890/20161212_114106.mp4

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

cuke2u

Registered User
This conclusion is too long..
"If you have a car, it might be stolen" =)

GAP insurance is well worth it anyway imo, £170 over 4 years for mine for a 25k claim benefit, so nothing really.
Quite...
 

Ellski

Registered User
Ive just picked my RS3 up today and inside the owners manual was a bit of paper from Audi explaining how to deactivating the convenience key.

It says to put the car in Park, get out and close the door, lock the car with the key and then press the button on the door handle without putting your hand inside the handle within 5 seconds of locking it.

You shouldn’t be able to unlock the car after 10 seconds without physically pressing the key and once this is done the whole thing resets and you have to do the process again to once again deactivate it.

Quite useful for parking overnight or somewhere for a long time I guess.
 

cemerson

Registered User
Ive just picked my RS3 up today and inside the owners manual was a bit of paper from Audi explaining how to deactivating the convenience key.

It says to put the car in Park, get out and close the door, lock the car with the key and then press the button on the door handle without putting your hand inside the handle within 5 seconds of locking it.

You shouldn’t be able to unlock the car after 10 seconds without physically pressing the key and once this is done the whole thing resets and you have to do the process again to once again deactivate it.

Quite useful for parking overnight or somewhere for a long time I guess.

Will have to give this a try tomorrow!
 
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