S-Tronic Hesitation

AdrianWh

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This has probably been mentioned already but would appreciate some advice regarding the S-Tronic gearbox on a 190 Quattro.
On a few occasions the car has hesitated when entering a roundabout. It seems there’s a 1-1.5s delay between pressing the accelerator and the car moving forward. The car creeps slowly and then lurches. I’m not an aggressive driver but I’d like the confidence to be able to be in full control.
Is there a technique to avoid this situation, any advice would be welcome as coming from a Lexus hybrid and a ZF8 before that I’m not used to this behaviour?


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Only way I’ve managed to reduce this is keep the car in dynamic and have it in sport mode


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Its an absolute pain in the **** but something you'll have to live with unfortunately. Having the box in dynamic helps a little but means you have constantly switch. Only way around it is to lift off the accelerator for a second and let the car engage 1st gear then step on it, again not ideal. Eventually you'll get used to timing your exit, junctions/roundabouts get easier but changing lanes in slow traffic is borderline dangerous with this gearbox.
 
Well discussed and I have never found it to be an issue to be honest, if it bothers you that much just flick the gearbox into sport but if you do a search in this forum, or in fact any Audi/VW forum you will find it is a characteristic of a the dsg gearbox and a topic very much discussed. Some find that more difficult it seems to adapt but there you go.
The zf 8 is a automatic gearbox not a dsg, each have their positives and negatives.
 
The gearbox is the worst part of the car, it’s terrible, it’s as if the throttle is connected to the engine via a rubber band.

I wouldn’t own one again.
 
Is this supposed to be noticeable on all A4 B9's with S Tronic transmission? I say this because on my 2.0 TFSI 190 S Tronic, I've not noticed any sort of lag when pulling away at roundabouts or similar.
 
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Not noticed it on mine either. It goes in to 1st when I'm still moving which imho jerks a bit though. Previous RS3 wouldn't engage 1st until stopped.

TX.

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Not noticed it on mine either. It goes in to 1st when I'm still moving which imho jerks a bit though. Previous RS3 wouldn't engage 1st until stopped.

TX.

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In my opinion it's actually the downshifts, especially 3, 2, 1, that are more annoying than any lag pulling away. My previous 2.0tfsi s-tronic was far, far smoother when slowing down in both D and S modes.
 
Not noticed it on mine either. It goes in to 1st when I'm still moving which imho jerks a bit though. Previous RS3 wouldn't engage 1st until stopped.

TX.

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Never had this on my S4, have to be at total standstill before it goes into 1st, unless I manually shift and can then be a bit jerky.
 
Your S4 has a different gearbox to the A4 as the ZF8 HP I believe is used and a automatic, not a stronic..
 
Yes true :) but wasn't sure about the RS4. The OP though, is making a reference to a stronic gearbox, not S4's or RS4's...
 
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Agreed...always felt that its quite difficult to pull out quickly and smoothly the car hesitates then lurches (and becomes a bit of a panic). Also find that 'drive' mode is far too eager to stall the engine even before the car has stopped - needing to select 'sport' mode to prevent it.
 
Very little lag at all on my 2.0 TFSi Quattro if I am in Dynamic mode. Other modes are noticeable and Eco mode is definitely noticeable. I just switch from D to S for circles where I need to nip out quicker.
 
I find there is hesitation in efficiency mode, however dropping it into sport fixes that. So at busy times on roundabouts, when I know I may need to move quickly, drop it into sport, no problems. Other option is flick the paddle into manual, seems to keep the gearbox ready, although make sure it is in first gear
 
Thanks for all the tips everyone. I’ll give flicking the shifter into Sport a go as that seems the most convenient option.


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After a couple of years I thought I’d post an update. In the end, due to the DCT hesitation and dangerous stop/start, I chopped the A4 in May ‘19. The nail in the coffin was a comment from my wife : “when are you getting rid of this car before it kills us”. It’s a shame really as the rest of the car was very good, reasonable performance, nice interior, fantastic audio and smooth ride.
I changed it for aN F30 BMW 330D which has no such gearbox issues - due to it being a torque converter auto - and does not cut out until at a full stop. Audi would do well to ditch the DCT proposition in the A4 and use the ZF8 used in the S4.
 
OP, sorry to hear about your bad experience with the S-Tronic gearbox but I'm now on my second Audi (A6 C8) which has the S-Tronic transmission and couldn't be happier. But each to their own :)
 
Yep, ditto with the above.

I've, a week ago, moved from a 40 TFSI A5 Sportback S-Line 2018MY to a 35 TDI A5 Sportback S-Line 2020MY and can't see, feel or understand what the fuss is about.

Yes, it took me a few days getting used to putting away from stop, but I've sussed the 'biting point / pulling point' on the accelerator for it to be smooth, no lag and no problem!

This 35 TDI is wonderful smooth and packs a punch, with the torque being in the higher range; whereas the 40 TFSI had it in the lower end
 
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I've noticed that this behaviour seems to vary on the same gearboxes. It's as if VW allow a certain tolerance in performance levels so they can be a little different from car to car. I've gone from an stronic to Dsg and now a BMW ZF which I can honestly say just works. Instant pickup not jerky but this could also have a level of tolerance too.

The 'lag' will also be more noticeable to some than others and In our Tiguan we noticed it and just lived with it.

Having sampled various types of Auto box, unless I'm on a race track I can't really see the benefit of the 2 clutch system. anyways.
 
This issue does seem to exclusively affect the "40" 190TDI Qualltro from comments i've seen here and elsewhere.

I used to have a 2018 Polo GTI+ that uses the same EA888 3B engine as the "40" TFSI unit (but set at 200ps / 320Nm), mated to the 6 speed wet clutch DSG box and there is zero lag/delay from a standstill to the car pulling away in 1st.

I changed to a 2019 A4 Avant 40 TDI S-Line and the reaction from the drivetrain seems to be an age, meaning I have to prod the accelerator a second before I actually want to move.

The Polo was the first DSG box i'd had and I was amazed at how much feathering in of the gears the clutches do between changes, either in the name of smoothness or clutch longevity. The a4 40TDI is built for comfort rater than outright performance, it is likely feathering in the clutch as much for comfort as it is for clutch longevity, and when you put a DSG box in manual mode, there's a little less feathering in in the name of comfort

Although the S-Line is one of those sheep-in-wolf's-clothing trims, it doesn't even try to pretend to be a performance model with driving modes etc - The Polo has those fake "Sport" modes whereby all they've done is dull the throtte response in "normal" and more so in "Eco" mode (with coasting feature enabled also), no fake noise Soundaktor on the A4 40 either.

The "40" 190TDI engine suffers a lot more turbo lag than the "40" 190TFSI engine, due mainly to how much of the total power is attributed to the turbo. VAG used to offer a 2.0SDI (naturally aspirated variant of the TDI lump) that only had 75ps. From that i'd say the 190TDI has probably only got 30-40ps accessible at 1700rpm, before the turbo is fully spun up. VAG has been making 2.0FSI units with 150ps (as featured in the EOS), so from the get-go the TFSI units suffer very little turbo lag vs the TDI. I used to have a manual MK7 Golf GTD which used the same EA288 engine as the "40" TDI unit (in 184ps variant) and even with the manual box rather than a DSG feathering in the clutch, it had a bit of lag.

The Quattro system might also have a part to play. When you have a 2WD car and give it some throttle from a standstill, the wheelspin/tramping acts like a clutch, it's not sending all the power generated straight through the wheels into forward movement until the tramping dies down.

With the Quattro you have instant grip and forward movement once the DSG/S-Tronic clutches are fully engaged, all that power going through the drivetrain to the wheels - that would be a lot of stress to instantly put through the drivetrain if the DSG clutches didn't feather it in. Also, the "40" TDI unt has 25% more torque than the "40" TFSI unit, so there'd be a lot more stress going through the drivetrain on a quattro without feathering in. - perhaps then the TDI has more feathering in (and clutch engagement lag) than the TFSI unit

So the very noticeable lack of response from a standstill as seen on the 40TDI Quattro could well be a culmination of all of those factors:-

1. Higher TDI torque = longer engagement time of the clutches than TFSI to protect the clutches.
2. Lower pre-turbo power available on the TDI and more turbo lag
3. Quattro system requires even longer clutch engagement time to avoid straining the drivetrain.

If all of those contribute, you are going to have a longer 1st gear engagement time on a 40TDI Quattro than other variants.

Longest > Shortest engagement time would likely be:-

40TDI Quattro > 45TFSI Quattro > 40TFSI > 35TDI > 35TFSI
 
Although people have had problems with the 190 TFSI in the past and pretty much every VW group auto in general over that last few years.
Some cars more than others and more of an issue to some drivers and not others.
 
@monkeyhanger
I went from an A4 B9 2.0 TFSI (190 PS) to an A6 C8 40 TDI Quattro (204 PS) -both S-Tronic- and didn't notice any difference in lag on the gearbox. Both were buttery smooth.
 
@monkeyhanger
I went from an A4 B9 2.0 TFSI (190 PS) to an A6 C8 40 TDI Quattro (204 PS) -both S-Tronic- and didn't notice any difference in lag on the gearbox. Both were buttery smooth.

My gearbox is smooth, probably too smooth - the full engagement of first gear is smoothly implemented, but i'm expecting it to come in over half a second, not a second and a half.

How long was your lag from prodding the accelerator to full engagement of 1st?

I do wonder whether it's intent to make a non-performance model silky smoith, strongly prioritising comfort over response. I'd rather suffer a little jerkiness for a strong and quick first gear engagement.
 
Had the lag with the s tronic box on my old 2.0 tdi quattro A4 and again in the Q3 40 tfsi quattro that I test drove last week.

It was so noticeable that my wife, who initially really wanted the Q3, instantly ruled it out because of the lag. Ended up going for an X3 with the superior ZF8 box. VW really need to do something about these boxes because they’re awful
 
I had my wife's Polo GTI+ out last night to fill it up and took it for a quick blast. It has the DQ250 6 speed wet clutch DSG box and a 200ps version of the "40" TFSI engine...absolutely no hesitation to fully engage 1st and move off.
 
I think anyone who has owned a car with a ZF 8 speed auto the bought a VAG product with a DSG will think the DSG is a inferior product.

The ZF is a better auto and the shifts in manual are almost as fast.

I have owned both and I don’t mind the DSG it’s just not as good as the ZF
 
Lol, not with the same zf gearbox in an Audi according to some. I have driven a BMW with the zf too and wasn't impressed, it does though also depend upon what engine as the diesel powered BMW's gearbox wasn't as good as mine..
 
The ZF reacts quicker off the line and in kickdown other than that they're about even id say

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For me the Stronic box is one of the reasons I love the car, I always disliked the traditional inefficient slushmatic autos I'd driven (but never owned) before. I have adapted to its pros & cons (nothing is perfect after all) and really love using it.

The only lag I ever notice is when approaching a roundabout, decelerating almost to a stop, then you spot a gap and want to accelerate again and there is a lag then before it reacts. This is a characteristic of DSG style boxes, as it predicts what's happening next and sometimes gets wrong footed. If you were driving a manual and doing the same thing, there might be a pause (or lag) while you change down to accelerate into the gap, but you don't think of it as lag as you are in full control, but this is in effect what is happening with the dual clutch system.

As others have said, using S mode, or manual improves the issue, but I find I can adapt and anticipate it so its rarely a problem.
 
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On other VAG cars wuth DSG/S-Tronic gearboxes (like the wife's Polo GTI+), the lag duration is tiny, and the Polo doesn't feel rough/uncivilised in use. The daft that you can take some of the lag of gear engagenent out with the gearbox in S/M mide says to me that Audi have deliberately put the lag in for comfort. You can adapt, but there should be no need to have to adapt.

I'd ratger have a manual any day of the week, but VAG seem to be doing all they xan to eliminate manual boxes for anything over 150ps. In certain circumstances I can perhaps see why - the clutch on my Golf R was crap, slipping on stock power, and mine wasn't an isolated incident.
 
I'd love to see if 2 drivers of 2 identical cars so far as engine/gearbox go, 1 complaining of lag and one having no issue, could test each others cars and see if they notice a difference.
 
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Mine also has lag on Comfort. It has just 11k miles on the clock. When I first drove the car a few months back I didn't notice it but now I can feel the car more than before and there is lag. It is very noticeable when you climb a hill and let say on very tight or U-turn you try to accelerate in the turn then it takes forever to accelerate.
Other situation is if you kick the pedal down it doesn't accelerate immediately but it is seeking to downshift before. So I tend not to accelerate with pedal to the metal initially but once it starts gaining revs.
It was the same with my previous car - Toyota Avensis but it had CVT gearbox.

EDIT: My car is 2018 2.0T Quattro
 
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Mine does it in dynamic or comfort with the box in "D" mode.

The initial lag from putting your foot on the accelerator to the start of gear engagement is very noticeable in all gearbox modes (but maybe can be reduced with a pedal box). The long time from start of clutch engagement (feathering the gear in) until full engagement and proper power availability is also very long, and can probably only be rectified with a DSG remap.

Although I can't speak from experience with an identical car to compare to, the lack of an issue on my wife's Polo GTI+ and the comments here from others, this really seems to be predominantly a 190 TDI Quattro issue.
 

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