Snow driving??

kolash

kolash

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Driving to France in Feb next year for a skiing trip with friends.

Worried about the drive in the snowier parts without winter tyres. I didn’t want to fork out for a set that I’ll never use again and nowhere to store them!

Any experience or advice on chains or similar?
 
Yeah my advice? Get winter tyres. Driving in the snow especially mountainous areas without them would be extremely irresponsible, I'm not sure if France is like Germany where it's a legal requirement to have them.
Just sell the tyres when you get back, you'd recoup most of the money you spent.

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Driving in France + snowy roads.
Hire a car for the trip and buy collision damage waiver.
 
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I ran winters on my Yeti for 4 winters. What swung it for me was after seeing a youtube clip of a 2wd on winter v a 4wd on normanl tyres. The 2wd was better in 5 out of 6 senarios. The difference is noticeable over the winter and not just in the snow but the rain. I bought steel rims and Nokians paying just over £400. I sold them with near 6mm of tread on for £250.
Move on a few years and the all seasons tyres now on sale as near as good as the winters. If I'd had a choice on the options list when ordering I would have had them. If your normal tyres are worn I'd have no hesitation in going all seasons. If not I'd look out for a good second hand set of winter wheels and tyres.

Colin
 
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kolash said:
Driving to France in Feb next year for a skiing trip with friends.

Worried about the drive in the snowier parts without winter tyres. I didn’t want to fork out for a set that I’ll never use again and nowhere to store them!

Any experience or advice on chains or similar?
Click to expand...
Have driven to the alps in winter many times and it's a legal requirement to have winter tyres.
The mountain roads once off the motorways can be difficult to navigate and at times dangerous without the correct kit.
What would your insurance company and the local police say if you had an accident whilst running on summer tyres ?
 
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I live in Switzerland and deal with massive amounts of snow for around 5months of the year. You will not even touch anywhere near the alps with summer tires. You will need winter tires. The roads will be clear to a point but you will come to a stage where you will need extra grip. I would not want to be in a car with you even driving down to the Alps, let alone getting near them or tackling them. Your talking mountains that have massive drops with just flimsy metal guards protecting you from going over. Summer tires there would be lethal. The roads along the way through France get down to -5 as they are very exposed. They have this kind of white frost sheen to them when below freezing temps and become very slippy. I have driven to Milan along the same kind of routes you will be using in my A3 with summer tires and i was shitting myself. Never again without the propper tires. What part are you going to? The roads around Grenoble and so on are very tricky in winter. If there was snow fall you might not even make it out of the city. In the case of an acident, your insurance will be invalidated because you failed to equipt your car for the conditions and if France is anything like Switzerland, then you will also face criminal procedings if you create an accident. Snow chains are ok but they are only used up to 15-20kmph (around that) and will not get you anywhere near the mountain.

If you have Quattro then do not make the mistake to assume you are invincable. It means nothing without the correct tires. Car hire or new winter tires are the best way to go. Car hire will 100% have winter tires, especially if you pick up at a snow resort.
 
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Ornersome has hit the nail on the head with his comments. As for the OP to rent/hire a car he will have to make damn sure that the rental company has a car shod with winter tyres, lots of luck on that if you pick up the car in Paris or any other major lowland city. Why not buy the winter tyres for your car and use them also for the U.K. winter, you will not believe how much better the car handles/stops/starts for those frosty U.K. days and temperatures below 45 F
 
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He said he had nowhere to store them

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HOGG said:
He said he had nowhere to store them

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Click to expand...

He might have said that, but it is no excuse. I googled “tire storage uk” and this was one of hundreds of results. Don’t know if ATS Euromaster are good, but i use a similar service in Switzerland. OP can easily buy a good set of winter tires with fitting for under £500, use his existing alloys if needed, then just change tires back to summer compound in April time. He will then be safer on the road and can start using the 2 types of compound from this winter onwards.

https://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/consumer/tyres/tyre-services/tyre-hotel

I run my 19inch rotor alloys all year round with 2 different compounds with no problems.
 
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A friend etc. may be able to help him out with storage. Some tyre stores offer storage for a cost.

Edit
As usual I am late with a reply :racer:
 
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Ormesome said:
He might have said that, but it is no excuse. I googled “tire storage uk” and this was one of hundreds of results. Don’t know if ATS Euromaster are good, but i use a similar service in Switzerland. OP can easily buy a good set of winter tires with fitting for under £500, use his existing alloys if needed, then just change tires back to summer compound in April time. He will then be safer on the road and can start using the 2 types of compound from this winter onwards.

https://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/consumer/tyres/tyre-services/tyre-hotel

I run my 19inch rotor alloys all year round with 2 different compounds with no problems.
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Yeah ATS are a chain service here in the UK, would be good enough for storing some tyres. I'm keeping mine in the roof space in our garage, but as you say a family member or friend can store them. Most Audi dealers will store then as well.

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I’ve had my head in the sand since the summer or should I say snow.... so I will buy the tyres and chains now. eribaMotters mentions all weathers being as good as winters? Any recommends for a 19”??
 
kolash said:
I’ve had my head in the sand since the summer or should I say snow.... so I will buy the tyres and chains now. eribaMotters mentions all weathers being as good as winters? Any recommends for a 19”??
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I'd find it hard to believe that an all round tyre is better then one purely designed for snow and cold weather.
I've had Vredesteins fitted to my S5 for the past 2 months and can't fault them, used in cold weathers, ice and a little bit of snow up north over Christmas.

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All season/weather tires are not as good as winter tires. Fact! Are they good? Yes, amazing in fact but they are not as good as a dedicated season tire. I had Pirelli Sotto something or other all weather tires on my A3 running 17inch alloys and they were great. Great grip even in snow. Totally fine in 40+ degree heat too. Would I buy them again? Yes on a normal car, not performance like an S3. My A3 got up some incredible inclines in snow using the all season tires but then I only had 110bhp so I would have thought 300bhp would be hard to control in such conditions. I currently have a Q2 which came with Continental winter tyres so I change every 6months or so. I run 19inch rotor alloys. No problems at all and had the car in snow deeper than the alloy itself and still gave good grip!
 
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Ormesome said:
All season/weather tires are not as good as winter tires. Fact! Are they good? Yes, amazing in fact but they are not as good as a dedicated season tire. I had Pirelli Sotto something or other all weather tires on my A3 running 17inch alloys and they were great. Great grip even in snow. Totally fine in 40+ degree heat too. Would I buy them again? Yes on a normal car, not performance like an S3. My A3 got up some incredible inclines in snow using the all season tires but then I only had 110bhp so I would have thought 300bhp would be hard to control in such conditions. I currently have a Q2 which came with Continental winter tyres so I change every 6months or so. I run 19inch rotor alloys. No problems at all and had the car in snow deeper than the alloy itself and still gave good grip!
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Thanks, I’ll try and pick up some decent used winters...
 
Iv actually just come back from France, skiing for Xmas, and thought about this thread on occasions! 1st time was in Chamonix, saw a British camper hit another car in the car park cos it had summer tires on and was trying to park in a car park that was full of snow. Massive thing, couldn’t stop and just plowed in to a parked car! Then it couldn’t move and all traffic in and out was stopped. Police arrived swiftly, camper towed away and driver in the back of the car arrested, not sure what happened next but I can bet it wasn’t good! I was based around the Le Bettex/ St Gervais area, minus 5 degrees and snowy most of the time. Personally I wouldnt bother with all seasons, massive drops with no rear barriers, super slippy roads everywhere. Chances are that you will end up spending the same money on all seasons as winter tires. Do it properly! Where are you going btw?
 
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Ormesome said:
Iv actually just come back from France, skiing for Xmas, and thought about this thread on occasions! 1st time was in Chamonix, saw a British camper hit another car in the car park cos it had summer tires on and was trying to park in a car park that was full of snow. Massive thing, couldn’t stop and just plowed in to a parked car! Then it couldn’t move and all traffic in and out was stopped. Police arrived swiftly, camper towed away and driver in the back of the car arrested, not sure what happened next but I can bet it wasn’t good! I was based around the Le Bettex/ St Gervais area, minus 5 degrees and snowy most of the time. Personally I wouldnt bother with all seasons, massive drops with no rear barriers, super slippy roads everywhere. Chances are that you will end up spending the same money on all seasons as winter tires. Do it properly! Where are you going btw?
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Staying in an Air B&B close to La Clusaz but have a pass for both La Clusaz and smaller Manigod beginner resort. No idea what FFE roads are like.

Did you have snow chains?
 
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Main roads were ok. Anything off a main road was bad. The photo below shows my Q2 in a car park near a ski lift, all small roads to the lifts were like this, part snow, part sludge and then some icy. The other shows the main road to St Gervais which I would assume will be like near you. Snow at the sides. Sludge on road but nothing serious. All depends if you are using your car to the slopes or to the lift. Near us there was a lift really low down to the main ski area, a gondola style lift, but then we didn’t do that often as it was easier to go up the hill.

Just had a look at webcams in the link below for your resort, it’s pretty snowy and icy. your resort seems higher than where I stayed so I would be wary on all seasons.

https://en.laclusaz.com/webcams-laclusaz.html

No snow chains. Not needed as snow not deep enough. Didn’t see anyone with chains actually. Just a few locals that used their cars in the fields.

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:smirkcat:
Ormesome said:
Main roads were ok. Anything off a main road was bad. The photo below shows my Q2 in a car park near a ski lift, all small roads to the lifts were like this, part snow, part sludge and then some icy. The other shows the main road to St Gervais which I would assume will be like near you. Snow at the sides. Sludge on road but nothing serious. All depends if you are using your car to the slopes or to the lift. Near us there was a lift really low down to the main ski area, a gondola style lift, but then we didn’t do that often as it was easier to go up the hill.

Just had a look at webcams in the link below for your resort, it’s pretty snowy and icy. your resort seems higher than where I stayed so I would be wary on all seasons.

https://en.laclusaz.com/webcams-laclusaz.html

No snow chains. Not needed as snow not deep enough. Didn’t see anyone with chains actually. Just a few locals that used their cars in the fields.

View attachment 195863 View attachment 195864
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Nice :thumbs up:webcams are awesome!

Glad to hear this on the chains, I’ve never put on a set in my life. I will get a set anyway to avoid any issues with police and practice a couple of times at home, but dread having to actually use them!

Need to work out details of how we get to the actual lifts, and whether we’ll leave the cars lower down.

Nice car btw:sunglasses:
 
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kolash said:
Nice webcams are awesome!

Glad to hear this on the chains, I’ve never put on a set in my life. I will get a set anyway to avoid any issues with police and practice a couple of times at home, but dread having to actually use them!

Need to work out details of how we get to the actual lifts, and whether we’ll leave the cars lower down.

Nice car btw
Click to expand...

cheers mate :icon thumright:

You won’t need chains, I really doubt it anyway, but if it makes you feel safer then buy them just in case. You will be surprised at how much grip winter tires give you. Chains will defo not be needed legally but I think winter tires will be in such conditions. If you are in the resort then it seems like you might not need the car which will be great. Ask the Airbnb person and see if they have info. We did the same and they usually have all the info on buses etc. Actually St Gervais had an awesome app with all buses and passes etc so worth checking out if your area has the same. Failing that then stop off at the tourist info on the way to check in.
 
You are unlikely to need chains. However, you may need them if you plan on going to ski resorts. If the roads to the resorts are bad, then there are signs indicating when snow chains must be used. Snow socks are not considered an acceptable alternative to chains.

If you have a S3, remember that normal (12 or 9 mm) snow chains cannot be fitted to 18 or 19" wheels. Only "zero clearance" chains will fit.
 
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Winter tyres are for all winter weather, not just snow. Better in cold, rain, ice etc.
I have Continental WinterContact tyres (TS860 and TS850) on 16" wheels on the Audi and Skoda. Been up in the Scottish highlands many times in heavy snow and use them all winter for getting to work etc. Well worth it.
 
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I store the wheels/tyres on a rack in the garage but there are places that will store them for you, Kwikfit etc.
 

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Audi even with summer tyres will manage snow :p
 
Peto said:
Audi even with summer tyres will manage snow :p
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Depends how you define "manage" plenty of videos prove winter tyres on a RWD is far superior to a 4x4 (aka Audi Quattro) on summer tyres.

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Peto said:
Audi even with summer tyres will manage snow :p
Click to expand...

Read again post #18 and in particular: "1st time was in Chamonix, saw a British camper hit another car in the car park cos it had summer tires on and was trying to park in a car park that was full of snow. Massive thing, couldn’t stop and just plowed in to a parked car!"

Stopping and steering on snow with summer tyres is not in 'your' control, though you may think it is! Traction, however, is a different matter and summer tyres can cope, sometimes, maybe. I tend to think of it like this: is the price of my own safety and that of my wife's worth a set of winter tyres and rims? And I've been using 'em on my Audi cars for 10-years and more. Oh, and they also reduce the wear and tear on my summer tyres and rims.

And a winter rubber shod Audi on snow is a laugh anyway; can't wait to get our winter rubber shod SQ5 onto the white stuff
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Adam14 said:
Depends how you define "manage" plenty of videos prove winter tyres on a RWD is far superior to a 4x4 (aka Audi Quattro) on summer tyres.

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Click to expand...

45bvtc said:
Read again post #18 and in particular: "1st time was in Chamonix, saw a British camper hit another car in the car park cos it had summer tires on and was trying to park in a car park that was full of snow. Massive thing, couldn’t stop and just plowed in to a parked car!"

Stopping and steering on snow with summer tyres is not in 'your' control, though you may think it is! Traction, however, is a different matter and summer tyres can cope, sometimes, maybe. I tend to think of it like this: is the price of my own safety and that of my wife's worth a set of winter tyres and rims? And I've been using 'em on my Audi cars for 10-years and more. Oh, and they also reduce the wear and tear on my summer tyres and rims.

And a winter rubber shod Audi on snow is a laugh anyway; can't wait to get our winter rubber shod SQ5 onto the white stuff
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Don't feed the troll guys.
 
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kolash said:
thanks have picked up a pair of continentals so now on the look out for another pair.
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Definitely make sure you have a full set, not just 2.

Youtube video showing what happens with just 2. It's not good.

 
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kolash said:
thanks have picked up a pair of continentals so now on the look out for another pair.
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Are you driving the S3 or A3 in your signature? I'm asking since it's pretty important for quattros to have as similar tyre circumference as possible (+-1%) to avoid putting too much stress on the haldex quattro system. Just a kindly reminder so you can find a pair that has pretty similar thread depth to the ones you already got :)
 
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Lehn said:
Are you driving the S3 or A3 in your signature? I'm asking since it's pretty important for quattros to have as similar tyre circumference as possible (+-1%) to avoid putting too much stress on the haldex quattro system. Just a kindly reminder so you can find a pair that has pretty similar thread depth to the ones you already got :)
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Thanks. S3. Have found another pair with very similar tread.
 
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Just returned from France today. No issues with my used continental winters that seemed to perform well. Roads generally very clear but the car parks and access roads to the slopes were worse.

Bought some snow chains but didn’t need them as Ormesome predicted. Put them on once as looked like we were going to get heavy snow whilst at the top of the resort but road was clear enough by end of the day so I took them off for fear of damaging my rims!

Absolutely loved the drive. S3 perfect for 2 adults and 2 small kids, albeit with a roof box. Awesome winding roads to slopes that I would have found harder with a big car. Felt like the long run really opened her up too.
 
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kolash said:
Just returned from France today. No issues with my used continental winters that seemed to perform well. Roads generally very clear but the car parks and access roads to the slopes were worse.

Bought some snow chains but didn’t need them as Ormesome predicted. Put them on once as looked like we were going to get heavy snow whilst at the top of the resort but road was clear enough by end of the day so I took them off for fear of damaging my rims!

Absolutely loved the drive. S3 perfect for 2 adults and 2 small kids, albeit with a roof box. Awesome winding roads to slopes that I would have found harder with a big car. Felt like the long run really opened her up too.
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Great! Glad you had fun. It’s been a super mild winter so not surprised the roads where clear. How was the skiing? Just got back from Davos, they were having to get snow canons out cos the snow was melting everywhere.
 
Ormesome said:
Great! Glad you had fun. It’s been a super mild winter so not surprised the roads where clear. How was the skiing? Just got back from Davos, they were having to get snow canons out cos the snow was melting everywhere.
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Yes very mild. Friends who have a place there said they’d never seen it so warm. We were taking our mid layers off most of the time. Snowed on 2-3 days so ski conditions were ok for beginners like us. One day of rain which was awful! We spent the whole week at Manigod which was great for the rest of my family who were all first timers. 20km drive from our Air B&B in Annecy.
 
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