Revo Stage 2+ Vs APR Stage 2+

[Allman45]

Apologies if this is a duplicate thread as i'm aware is a common talking point.

From research i can see APR produces a higher numbers but i was speaking to a tuner and he said REVO is better. He explained that APR peaks early to give an aggressive feel but REVO maintains torque better throughout the rev range.

Does anyone have a different opinion? I'm intrigued

Anyone gone from REVO to APR or vice versa who can comment?

Thanks

 

[S3Alex]

It's been visited many times over many threads,but it is relevant as APR seem to have put a good bit of work into their S3 maps recently,whereas Revo haven't.

I think from hearing what others have said,and been in an APR Stg3 car,their software is good,and their hardware products have always been good.
In the past,their sales techniques put people off,and did their products a major disservice,but I'd be happy buying an APR map if I was looking now.

Both work well,and both are good products.

 

[Compkiler]

I've also gone from Revo to APR! Do a little search and you will see my thoughts

 

[Allman45]

I've also gone from Revo to APR! Do a little search and you will see my thoughts

Did you see much improvement? Feel faster etc?

 

[S3_Mat]

Not a very scientific experiment however I have a friend who has APR stage 2+ and I am using Revo Stage 2+. On a private road we were neck and neck from 30 to 150. And considering he has a decat straight through and no back seats or spare wheel I think thats a good indication that really there isn't much in it between the maps other than the way the power is delivered.

I've yet to see a back to back dyno of APR 2+ and Revo 2+ on the same Dyno. Pretty pointless comparing results between different cars on different dynos running different hardware.

 

[Allman45]

Not a very scientific experiment however I have a friend who has APR stage 2+ and I am using Revo Stage 2+. On a private road we were neck and neck from 30 to 150. And considering he has a decat straight through and no back seats or spare wheel I think thats a good indication that really there isn't much in it between the maps other than the way the power is delivered.

I've yet to see a back to back dyno of APR 2+ and Revo 2+ on the same Dyno. Pretty pointless comparing results between different cars on different dynos running different hardware.

What numbers did you make on the dyno mate?

 

[nooone]

If you want the best from your car, go with a custom tune from someone who has proven results from the platform.

 

[S3_Mat]

I have not dyno'ed my car yet but Ill try and get myself and him on the dyno in the next month and we can compare graphs then.

 

[Allman45]

I have not dyno'ed my car yet but Ill try and get myself and him on the dyno in the next month and we can compare graphs then.

That would be quality mate. Keep me posted and post the graphs

 

[Compkiler]

I noticed a massive difference going from Revo to APR! The power was a lot more aggressive and it just felt more powerful all the way through!
I love the Motorsport limiter too!
Get to the red line just before you change gear and she pops and farts like a proper rally car when giving her full beans!

 

[Allman45]

I noticed a massive difference going from Revo to APR! The power was a lot more aggressive and it just felt more powerful all the way through!
I love the Motorsport limiter too!
Get to the red line just before you change gear and she pops and farts like a proper rally car when giving her full beans!

love out like that

 

[Compkiler]

It's addictive!

 

[LiamS3]

Fastest 1/4 Mile Time in the UK on the Stock K04.. Was running an APR Stage 2+ Map You aren't going to beat APR at Stage 2+

Their Maps are awesome and hold the torque and power all the way, their recent update (v3.4) will produce between 370-380bhp and 400-410ftlbs.. Revo could only dream of that at that Stage

 

[S3Alex]

Fastest 1/4 Mile Time in the UK on the Stock K04.. Was running an APR Stage 2+ Map You aren't going to beat APR at Stage 2+

Their Maps are awesome and hold the torque and power all the way, their recent update (v3.4) will produce between 370-380bhp and 400-410ftlbs.. Revo could only dream of that at that Stage

The truth is that the other company(who I was with for many yrs) seem to have frozen development for the 8P,and that's where most of their previous customers come from,and your mention of "recent update" underlines that very nicely.

As to holding the torque,yes,it does hold better,but the K04 is dropping torque off after the peak fairly quickly due to it's flow characteristics,and even APR aren't going to be able to counter that.
What they have done is to get the torque peak higher than Revo could.

 

[Allman45]

Fastest 1/4 Mile Time in the UK on the Stock K04.. Was running an APR Stage 2+ Map You aren't going to beat APR at Stage 2+

Their Maps are awesome and hold the torque and power all the way, their recent update (v3.4) will produce between 370-380bhp and 400-410ftlbs.. Revo could only dream of that at that Stage

Are you on APR's pay books lol

 

[S3Alex]

Are you on APR's pay books lol

Joking aside,I was never a fan of the old fanwars for Revo Vs APR,but now that they've had a bit of a culture change with Mangrove Equity taking them over,they do seem to have lost the attitude,and got down to letting the product sell itself.

I would never have seen myself saying that a few yrs ago,but there it is....they've worked on the software,and reaped a few extra horses as a result,which is good.

 

[Allman45]

Joking aside,I was never a fan of the old fanwars for Revo Vs APR,but now that they've had a bit of a culture change with Mangrove Equity taking them over,they do seem to have lost the attitude,and got down to letting the product sell itself.

I would never have seen myself saying that a few yrs ago,but there it is....they've worked on the software,and reaped a few extra horses as a result,which is good.

Liam's speaks for itself with the 1/4 times. Outstanding

 

[S3Alex]

Liam's speaks for itself with the 1/4 times. Outstanding

I'm just glad that there are companies(including the custom guys) who are still producing software for this car that seems to be forgotten by others.

It's also good to see companies like TTE producing hardware along with APR's kits,and interesting to see APR again looking at adapting their software for the TTE hybrids.

This is the sort of thing that a lot of people are going to want,instead of having to look at big turbo kits,and then the issues of finding suitable software.
For instance,the last software update for my previous setup was over 4yrs ago!

 

[LiamS3]

Hahah, nah I'm Custom now so was just giving my 2 cents worth! APR imo is the better Map and I've seen Revo and their claimed figures and well to put it bluntly, they lie.

Agree with you Alex It's good to see companies like TTE making hardware and the APR Maps taking to it!

 

[S3Alex]

Hahah, nah I'm Custom now so was just giving my 2 cents worth! APR imo is the better Map and I've seen Revo and their claimed figures and well to put it bluntly, they lie.

Agree with you Alex It's good to see companies like TTE making hardware and the APR Maps taking to it!

Me too as I'm on a different ECU platform now,with totally different software,but that was my view of past and present developments.

 

[LiamS3]

Me too as I'm on a different ECU platform now,with totally different software,but that was my view of past and present developments.

Did you go for the Syvecs? My mate is looking into that for his GTR, supposed to be the best of the best!

 

[S3Alex]

Did you go for the Syvecs? My mate is looking into that for his GTR, supposed to be the best of the best!

I did.

It's an amazing piece of kit......without pushing the timing,or altering valve timing Storm got over 600bhp out of the car.
It's all on my build thread rather than cluttering up this one,but the thing is superb.

 

[Allman45]

I did.

It's an amazing piece of kit......without pushing the timing,or altering valve timing Storm got over 600bhp out of the car.
It's all on my build thread rather than cluttering up this one,but the thing is superb.

Have you ever had it on the 1/4 to see what it does?

 

[m1keh]

APR 2+ vs Revo 2+ Boost Strategy is like below - give or take tweaks from SPS....

Torque and boost curves are of similar shapes generally.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4367023&postcount=143

Peak HP numbers are very similar - as the hardware is at the end of the day the limit.

All comes down to do you want a car that feels quick because of a kick in the back in the mid range APR - or one that is just as quick when really driven hard Revo.

 

[S3_Mat]

Im at boost 9 on Revo and that graph is very interesting. APR bring the boost in significantly later it seems.. There is a small increase to be had using APR over the others certainly higher up the rev range.

 

[RosscoJr]

Slightly off topic, has there been comparisons done at stage 1? I don't see many people talk APR at stage one.

 

[m1keh]

That graph is a little decieving.... The big hump in the middle of the APR graph ends with a very large torque peak at 5000rpm. In terms of peak power the Revo cars from that graph made more...

If someone can provide me the data for APR Stage 1 I can add to the above. A good Revo log would help also as the one in the above underperformed..

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

The two different boost profiles produce different power and torque figures. You can either bring a load of boost in as early as possible to have a huge initial shove in the back, but the power dies off and peak is usually less as a result.

Alternatively, you can bring the boost in to an initial level, and then increase some more before it again tails off. This will tend to give you a higher peak power figure and a smoother constant shove.

Two graphs below are from 2 Stage 2+ cars that I mapped, both drive differently. Ultimately no way is better, it's a very personal matter as to how you prefer the car to drive. For the best of both worlds I offer switchable maps where you can quickly switch from one power curve to the other.

Rick

 

[Mario8P]

The two different boost profiles produce different power and torque figures. You can either bring a load of boost in as early as possible to have a huge initial shove in the back, but the power dies off and peak is usually less as a result.

Alternatively, you can bring the boost in to an initial level, and then increase some more before it again tails off. This will tend to give you a higher peak power figure and a smoother constant shove.

Two graphs below are from 2 Stage 2+ cars that I mapped, both drive differently. Ultimately no way is better, it's a very personal matter as to how you prefer the car to drive. For the best of both worlds I offer switchable maps where you can quickly switch from one power curve to the other.

Rick

Thank you Dr. Rick! You always make things easier for us to understand

 

[nooone]

Yup, my old 1.8T was heaps of fun to drive at low RPM, boost came on at 2-2.5 and was dying after 4k.

I enjoy the brutal torque boost for street fun, not very useful for track work.

If you read the thread there is some interesting discussion about why Badger is getting more power from less boost.

 

[S3Alex]

I prefer a more linear delivery,although there's no doubt that an initial shove can "feel" faster,even if it isn't overall.

In the end I think it's better to have a car that has a more flexible delivery,and isn't all done in one narrow rpm band push,and Rick's solution of having switchable maps is a nice way of providing some of that.
The limitation is always going to be how far the K04 can be wrung out,and the development of things like the TTE hybrid range gives a lot more scope now without going bonkers.

Also,people like Rick,and companies like APR are beginning to cater for these products.

I've got a range of maps on mine,which can be switched whilst driving,allowing low boost for very wet or icy conditions,through medium settings and up to full boost,and it is very useful to have that.

 

[Allman45]

I prefer a more linear delivery,although there's no doubt that an initial shove can "feel" faster,even if it isn't overall.

In the end I think it's better to have a car that has a more flexible delivery,and isn't all done in one narrow rpm band push,and Rick's solution of having switchable maps is a nice way of providing some of that.
The limitation is always going to be how far the K04 can be wrung out,and the development of things like the TTE hybrid range gives a lot more scope now without going bonkers.

Also,people like Rick,and companies like APR are beginning to cater for these products.

I've got a range of maps on mine,which can be switched whilst driving,allowing low boost for very wet or icy conditions,through medium settings and up to full boost,and it is very useful to have that.

Full boost 90% of the time then?

 

[Compkiler]

To many settings Alex can be a down fall tho lol!
Imagine being at the light or having some young lad up ya **** and then he tries to overtake and your on the wrong settings lol!....
Know what ya saying tho! Very handy for snow etc

 

[voorhees]

At Inters I swapped settings and noticed a big difference on the 1/4 mile but generally never change them

 

[Compkiler]

I suppose 500+ bhp/torque is slightly different but you would never know I'm running 370bhp or that my car goes 0-60 in 4 seconds unless you put ya foot to the floor!
What I'm trying to say is that my car is a smooth as the next normal car and if it's raining or snowing you just drive more sensibly and a bit slower, and just because our tuned cars are quick, they come on progressively which means there would be no need to change any map regardless? Unless ofc your map is just a massive kick in the back and a wheel spin in every gear because the turbo is spoiling to quick? Lol

 

[smurfworth]

I suppose 500+ bhp/torque is slightly different but you would never know I'm running 370bhp or that my car goes 0-60 in 4 seconds unless you put ya foot to the floor!
What I'm trying to say is that my car is a smooth as the next normal car and if it's raining or snowing you just drive more sensibly and a bit slower, and just because our tuned cars are quick, they come on progressively which means there would be no need to change any map regardless? Unless ofc your map is just a massive kick in the back and a wheel spin in every gear because the turbo is spoiling to quick? Lol

Yet apr give you the option to change the map on the cruise control stalk, however as you say.. Not once have I ever changed it.

It's like having a race car and a slow daily, you can guarantee people will try it on when your in the daily and not in the race car.

 

[S3Alex]

Full boost 90% of the time then?

Mostly....but right down to 1 bar in that downpour the other day.

 

[S3Alex]

To many settings Alex can be a down fall tho lol!
Imagine being at the light or having some young lad up ya **** and then he tries to overtake and your on the wrong settings lol!....
Know what ya saying tho! Very handy for snow etc

It would only be slower in valet mode.....LOL

 

[S3Alex]

Yet apr give you the option to change the map on the cruise control stalk, however as you say.. Not once have I ever changed it.

It's like having a race car and a slow daily, you can guarantee people will try it on when your in the daily and not in the race car.

Nice thing about this ECU is you can change maps at any time....full throttle or not.