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Audi B8 dual mass f/wheel issues

ivor1 Dec 10, 2011

  1. ivor1

    ivor1 Member

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    Hi guys i have a 2009 143 a4 which earlier this year developed a judder on take off ,this was resolved under warranty so i was a bit surprised to notice the start of a judder again recently .When in for its service this week @34000 miles I mentioned it recurring . Well another f/wheel clutch and release bearing has been fitted and has resolved the issue. I have been told audi have upgraded the part but then i also was told that back in march and the car has only done 9000 miles since then.
    My brother in law said he had the same problem in his .Has anyone else experienced problems ?
    Three flywheels in 34000 miles is hardly what one would appreciate thankfully this is all under warranty .
     
  2. Audi Dynamik

    Audi Dynamik Well-Known Member

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    Hi i own a 59 plate Audi a5 convertible 2.0 tdi sline with 17000 miles, it sent the car back to the garage a couple of weeks ago due to clutch judder it only used to judder when the engine was cold and then when it warmed up it was fine. Anyway Audi collected the car and dropped it off the next day and said they have done a software update on it, I drove the car from cold again and no clutch judder feels so much better is perfect. apparently it is something to do with a sensor on the clutch causing it to judder or something, and also put quite a few revs in before you change gear, up to about 3000 revs to also prevent this problem. and every now and then give it a good red line to blast the turbo and clear it out and clear other engine components, it will not do it any harm just as long as the engine is warm and you dont do it very often, just do it every month or so.
     
  3. dombert03

    dombert03 New Member

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    Looks like you are not alone!

    I have a B8 2.0 Tdi 140bhp standard spec (not an S line) on a 58 plate. At 45,000 the car had a starting problem as it couldn't reliably detect the clutch was fully depressed. New clutch plate and pressure plate fitted under warranty. Question about the flywheel, but the dealer decided not to replace this.


    A year later at 62,000 the flywheel made nasty noises and car was not happy pulling below 2,000 rpm. New upgraded dual mass flywheel fitted under extended warranty. Now in under 2,000 and under 3 months, the car is showing clutch slip in 4th between 50 and 60. Dealer now questioning the clutch plate and its going in to be stripped again. The Dealer costs that have been met so far are over £3,000 in 65,000 miles.

    It appears that this is not an unknown problem on these cars, but changing the flywheel at the same mileage as the first change on the brake pads, and now having to change the clutch plate at the same rate as replacing the front tyres is excessive by any manufacturers standards!

    Its been fully Audi maintained so these are all Audi parts etc. Been happy with the car otherwise.
     
  4. dombert03

    dombert03 New Member

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    Dropped an email to Audi UK Customer Service, and got a telephone call on Monday after a week to say they had got it and were passing it to Customer Relations - not sure I know the difference!

    Car went into the dealer today having shown them video recordings of the dashboard with the rev counter flicking up but speed a constant. Gear indicator blanks also and the instantaneous fuel consumption blanks. Saves a lot of time and test drives to see a slipping clutch!

    Got a call asking me to approve cost of taking the gearbox out for examination as Audi Extended Warranty were refusing to authorise until they had seen photos of the strip down. So currently holding an £800 liability.

    Feedback from other owners is that clutch / flywheel is a week point in the 2.0TDi, with reports of mote than one DMF being fitted by some original owners. Clutch judder and intermittent slipping is also known.
     
  5. ivor1

    ivor1 Member

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    clutch judder seems to be very common i agree have known 3 series to be also affected
     
  6. golfather1

    golfather1 Active Member

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    My car done 36000 miles & it judders too on first geat but some times. I think I need to pay a visit to a local dealer :banghead:
     
  7. basha64

    basha64 New Member

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    Yep Just replaced the cambelt as the car is 5 years old. Asked the technician to check slight grinding noise when clutch pressed halfway.

    Normal driving conditions and I can't notice it really. The opinion of the technician is that it is a failing flywheel due to damaged bearing.

    It's not been stripped down and the gearbox dropped yet to fully inspect the part. This is happening in around 10 days time. Is it ok to drive. The warranty a used car one means the warranty company are paying for the inspection and a decision will be made as to if it is covered. Either way the cost is £1782 as the technician say the clutch wouldn't need to be replaced but given the gearbox would be out too it may be cheaper in the long run. Is this price excessive?

    Does anyone have an opinion on whether the diagnosis and suggested course of action is accurate please.

    Got the car with £34.5 k on the clock now 11 months later is at 47,700

    Thanks
     
  8. paul-psa

    paul-psa Member

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    Hiya mate, just had the clutch, dual mass flywheel, new modifed clutch arm, together with a gear box oil change done this set me back £1438 a few weeks ago, I had the work done my my local lndy specialist who uses genuine parts.
    I'm sure your price is somewhere near that when I got a quote from the main dealers. Your techniciam is spot on if you are going to drop the box its false economy not to do the lot . My symtoms where also very similar except I also had a judder sometimes when setting off in first which was the DMF knackered. Also release bearing was rumbling when you put some weight on the clutch pedel, pressed it down about an inch when in neutural on tick over and that way you could hear it best.

    I dont believe you can do much damage as you are replacing it all. Just take care of the gearbox! And its a good idea to change the oil at the same time.
    Incidently mine is the 2.0 ltr tdi b8 s line and had 47, 000 on the clock.
     
  9. basha64

    basha64 New Member

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  10. paul-psa

    paul-psa Member

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    The gear change was perfect, nice and smooth, drives like it should do, previously it was sometimes a pain to get it in first and notchy throu the gears especially on cold mornings. Best bit of advice i can give you is to change the gear box oil and use the following oil:

    G 052 171 A2 VAG approved Transmit Oil (This is genuine Audi Oil and is for the 6 speed box,) do not use any other oil.) this is specially formulated by Audi for colder climates and dramatically reduces the stiffness in gear changes on cold mornings.

    The standard oil that audi use is G 052 532 A2 but know where near as good! so would not recommend this.

    I know because i have tried both in the past.

    I think there is a thread about gearbox oil on here somewhere
     
  11. basha64

    basha64 New Member

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    Well the A4 was in the workshop today. The diagnosis was as suspected once the gearbox was taken out -thrust bearing on DMF gone, covered by the warranty, so a new DMF has been fitted and I only had to pay for the new clutch kit as I took the opportunity while the gearbox was out to have it done. All genuine Audi parts. Drives like new, no more notchy gear changes and no more crappy 1st and 2nd gear changes when cold, so far so good.
     
  12. paul-psa

    paul-psa Member

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    Nice one! Clad hear it all went well, did you change the oil like I said mate?
     
  13. SI-W85

    SI-W85 Well-Known Member

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    I changed the oil for the lighter stuff and it got rid off my notchy 1st and 2nd gear problem around 2 months ago and so far so good, it seems to have sorted it out for me.
     
  14. vangoo

    vangoo four wheels on the ground

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    I have the clutch judder on my a4 as well its got 38,000 miles on it and is out of warranty gulp.

    Any ideas on a cost to fix this?

    Or is it time to px and get that Golf R i have been eyeing up......
     
  15. paul-psa

    paul-psa Member

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    Hi, unfortunately it sounds like the DMF its a classic fault causing clutch judder on these cars, If you read earlier threads .it really needs stripping down to check for certain but once you go down this road it is false economy not to change the clutch at same time! To give you some idea just over 2 months ago I payed £1438inc vat for new DMF & clutch fitted ,the work was done by my local indy audi specialist who used genuine audi parts. I also had a quote from audi main dealer of £1740inc vat. So somewhere between these prices is most likely to be.
     
  16. vangoo

    vangoo four wheels on the ground

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    Thanks for that Golf R it is then.
     
  17. SI-W85

    SI-W85 Well-Known Member

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    Don't get rid just because of that if it ain't too much of a judder just live with it as i have had a slight judder on mine for 15000 miles and it never really bothered me until it read this post, mine only does it now and again though...
     
  18. SI-W85

    SI-W85 Well-Known Member

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    Ok so as said in this thread that the judder is most likely the flywheel now this is really strange as mine was showing signs of this judder but only on setting off for the first time in a morning then it wouldn't do it again for the rest of the day to start with it then gradually got a bit worse and would do it once or twice throughout the day, any way I got a couple quotes for a new flywheel and clutch the best I got was £800 inc vat fitted for a luchs dmf & clutch, I was getting ready to book it in until this :/ I had a egr delete and remap on Friday and now no clutch judder I have tried to make it do it by releasing the clutch really slow but it wouldn't do it whereas it would have done before Friday, how strange.
     
  19. Joshg

    Joshg Member

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    Mine does the judder as well. I've only had the car 2 days maybe I should take it back to the garage I bought it from and and maybe they will get it fixed under their 3 month warranty?
     
  20. SI-W85

    SI-W85 Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely take it back and have words about it being the flywheel because 2 days of ownership isn't long enough for you to be getting issues. Don't let them fob you off either as it is a common fault so they will know about it.
     
  21. Joshg

    Joshg Member

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    Thanks for the reply mate I will take it back on Monday and see what they say. Car is a 2010 has 44k miles.
     
  22. SI-W85

    SI-W85 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's pretty much same as mine mate. The flywheels have been known to go as low as 30k hope they sort it for you pal, did you get it from main dealer?
     
  23. Joshg

    Joshg Member

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    Was from evans halshaw mate. Was thinking of getting a remap but won't bother now if the flywheel buggered.
     
  24. SI-W85

    SI-W85 Well-Known Member

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    They should sort it out for you with any luck mate. Like I said its really strange how since I've had mine mapped the juddering has stopped or at least it hasn't done it today I will give it a few more days before I can say for sure as it seems a but odd how a remap can stop the issue. :/
     
  25. Joshg

    Joshg Member

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    Past 2 days mine has been behaving itself which is weird.

    Was just looking through the pile of audi receipts I got with the car and noticed my car has already had a new clutch and flywheel replaced in 2012 under manufacturers warranty lol
     
  26. A3BE

    A3BE Member

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    My 2013 2.0 TDi 177 A4 Black Edition had a slight clutch judder and poor gear change from about 3,000 miles, clutch assembly and flywheel were replaced at 5,000 miles along with the gearbox olil being changed for a lower viscosity.......2,000 miles on the drive refinement is quite poor with a mechanical vibration being felt throught the clutch pedal when depressed to change gear......NOT IMPRESSED!!
     
  27. A3BE

    A3BE Member

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    Well following on from my last post, my A4 has been back to Audi for 2 more replacement seat frames (4 since new) and the front brake "clunk" has returned to which the brake pads have had a "special" grease applied to stop the pads moving!! I have been advised not to allow water to splash on the brake calipers and pads so as to avoid the grease being washed away!! Poor design? Audi say no!! and they could not fault the clutch pedal operation!..... I have now identified that the vibration is noticeable through the clutch pedal whilst accelerating in all gears, could it be the Dual Mass Flywheel being out of balance?.....I have only noticed this pedal vibration since the clutch and DM Flywheel were replaced at 5,000 miles, car has covered a total of 7,500 miles and to say my A4 has been a disappointment is an understatement!!
     
  28. FleshY

    FleshY New Member

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    Hello to all,
    I have read all in this forum about judder. I have 2010 A4 b8 2.0 tdi with 120 ps. Got in used with 104 000 km and it has the same problem, its so going on my nervs ! Also 1st gear going in hard, and 2nd sounds 'shkrap'. In Audi Service 1.500 eur to change the whole set (without dmf)
    So all is clear, i need to service it, the thing is we all have AUDI not LADA or YUGO (ex Yugoslavian 'pride') is this fair for the price and the name we are paying for???
     
  29. Kosio

    Kosio New Member

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    Hi all,

    I bought the car from its first owner (127 000 km) and the clutch was worn-out upon inspection. When the dealer disassembled it explained that the DMF has to be replaced as well as it was gone as well.The cost was covered by the previous owner which was good as it was not a small sum. Since then all felt as a new car, until recently.On first gear on cold engine under load (couple of people in the car, or steep street) there is a judder on take off, but same as with most of you it is random and only on cold engine/clutch. If I take off aggressively the problem is not present,
    So I am pretty baffled, as my entire clutch/dmf/bearing set is only 35000 km old and as I have big experience with old cars it is definitely a DMF-alike issue. However the post of Audi Dynamik is interesting as the newer cars have so many sensors I am wondering could it by same issue as his. Anyone knows what is the upgrade that has to be done?
     
  30. Franky_D

    Franky_D New Member

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    Hi SI-W85!
    Hi All!

    Interesting information about oil change and relevance of EGR deletion to the gear shifting issue!

    I feel that gears are shifting better/smoother and there is less judder in Dynamic compared to Comfort. I guess EGR removal might have a similar effect (change in engine performance) How can this cause a difference in gear changing feel?

    Are you still ok after the oil change to low viscosity oil? Has the problem come back by any chance or still fine? Was it official dealer who changed it for you? I asked OD about any different oil and they were very explicit that there are none....

    I've been having weird experience with my car (A4 2014 2.0 tdi 136Hp facelift) from new. I remember when i just picked it up brand new from the dealer I found difficult to drive it - gears where not shifting easily! I reported it back to the dealer the same day and a week later and kept bugging them again and again...... At around 10,000 km i finally convinced Audi to do something about it. They changed the gearbos. Psychologically i felt a bit of a difference the first day, but in reality there was no big improvement. I still need to drive at least 10 km from start/cold before the gear-shifting improves, but it never really gets perfect.

    My clutch was fantastic in the beginning - silk smooth. Compared to my second car (A3 2006 1.9tdi) it was like a "new century clutch technology" smoothness-wise... However at about 9,000 km i started experiencing judder in the clutch when pulling off in the 1st gear, specially with a bit of load (peoples in the car or trailer). It is sporadic, i can not determine any dependency. I hate A4 clutch now compared to still smooth clutch in A3 (145,000 km on the clock and going very strong).

    At around 15,000 the judder was worth and somehow i managed to convince Audi to change the clutch as well (just to have both clutch and gearbox hanged to eliminate every single possible reason for gear-changing and judder issues). Audi changed EVERYTHING (clutch plate, clutch pleasure plate, release bearing, clutch lever, DMF and all small bolts, springs etc.) The light judder still remained. There was probably a bit of a difference, but the clutch was not back to its silk-smooth state as it was from new.... :( Months later i was looking on the list of parts changed and noticed that THEY DID NOT change one little thing - the needle bearing.

    I am wondering, can the clutch judder and gear-shifting issues be due to faulty needle bearing???

    What i feel when taking off in the first gear:
    - i am releasing the clutch gently;
    - the car starts moving and makes it fist 5-10 meters, all fine;
    - at the very last bit of releasing the clutch (like the last 20-30% remaining) it judders;
    - judder is sometime more or less pronounced,
    - i have not been able to determine specific weather conditions when it happens.
    - it it more pronounced when on cold (in he morning) and when on hot (after few starts from lights) - normal, not racing starts (i am a carefull driver)

    It is maybe possible to master the skill of releasing the clutch faster or slower, with more or less RMP, but this is freaking wrong! I have to manage my clutch releasing strategy instead of just driving a car and enjoying it. I have over 20 years of driving various manual transmission cars and never-ever had an issue. :(
     

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