S4 BiTurbo DV advice please.

I would get the forge. You know they will work well and take the pressure as it were, and also you will never need to replacethem again
 
The Forge 007P is more duriable and can stand higher boost, also looks alot better! :icon_thumright:

That offer is only one until the end of this month bud!

HTH

Damian @ DPM
 
DPM said:
That offer is only one until the end of this month bud

So if I rang you NEXT month you wouldn't honour that price? lol ;)

How much is P&P by the way chap?
 
Forge DV's cost a fortune and require maintenance, ie: greasing of the piston, otherwise they can fail to seal = boost leak. They may look pretty, but unless you are going to show off your engine bay on a concourse somewhere, why bother with the aesthetics?

I'm running over 400bhp on 710N's and I know that there are some RS4's running higher boost still using these. They cost about £40-50 delivered for a pair and they'll last for a few years.

No brainer IMHO.
 
Blue_Thunder said:
Forge DV's cost a fortune and require maintenance, ie: greasing of the piston, otherwise they can fail to seal = boost leak. They may look pretty, but unless you are going to show off your engine bay on a concourse somewhere, why bother with the aesthetics?

I'm running over 400bhp on 710N's and I know that there are some RS4's running higher boost still using these. They cost about £40-50 delivered for a pair and they'll last for a few years.

No brainer IMHO.

Hmmmm,.........interesting. Just the sort of things I'm wanting to hear about

Yeah I'm certainly not thinking about aesthetics, as they won't even be seen with all these endless engine covers.

Pardon my ignorance though (I'm still only knowledgable on Vauxhalls lol), but are 710N's the standard Audi item? I know zero about such things.
 
I had one on my S3 and at a steady speed down the motor way or just holding boost it would leak to the point where you could hear it. That's why i now have the Forge 007P on mine and problem solved, you only really need to grease the piston once a year as well so that's no hassle.
 
DPM said:
you only really need to grease the piston once a year as well so that's no hassle.

Is this a straight forward 5 minute job? (per valve).
 
All you need to do is remove the old valves and the clips holding them on then replace them with the new valves and secure them in with jubilee clips... simple.

Damian @ DPM
 
DPM said:
All you need to do is remove the old valves and the clips holding them on then replace them with the new valves and secure them in with jubilee clips... simple.

Damian @ DPM

Cheers dude, but I meant the 'greasing' part ;)
 
Yes 710N's are the OEM audi parts used on TT's and newer S3's.

710N is the end part of the part number. You'll find your existing ones will probably end 710A or 710B.

@DPM: I'm surprised that you could hear your DV losing boost on the motorway with the wind and road noise, especially seeing as how the DV's are pretty much silent.

It's possible that if you were running high boost you managed to outperform your 710N on an S3, but remember that the boost pressure is shared over two DV's on an S4. I'm running peak 25psi with no problems on 710N's, ie: 12.5psi per DV.
 
Blue_Thunder said:
Yes 710N's are the OEM audi parts used on TT's and newer S3's.

710N is the end part of the part number. You'll find your existing ones will probably end 710A or 710B.

Ahh OK :)

So does the 'N' mean they are a newer/updated design of the same thing?

Sorry for all the questions, but it's about time I learnt some of this stuff.
 
Blue_Thunder said:
Yes 710N's are the OEM audi parts used on TT's and newer S3's.

710N is the end part of the part number. You'll find your existing ones will probably end 710A or 710B.

@DPM: I'm surprised that you could hear your DV losing boost on the motorway with the wind and road noise, especially seeing as how the DV's are pretty much silent.

It's possible that if you were running high boost you managed to outperform your 710N on an S3, but remember that the boost pressure is shared over two DV's on an S4. I'm running peak 25psi with no problems on 710N's, ie: 12.5psi per DV.

Could definately hear it, also happened on my mates S3 engined Polo.
 
The 'N' is simply the version of the part number. It's just a more up to date model.

I have absolutely no idea why they still even manufacture the old ones(710A, 710B, etc.) as they have been proven to be prone to failure.
 
I put 710Ns on mine,get em from vagparts in the S3 engine parts section, £18 each, and they last for ages and ages, so why pay silly money for forge as you can replace you Ns 4 times for the price of one of those! Stay OEM unless you're running silly power, you know it makes sense!
 
710n for me had to replace the old models due to honking like a blow off valve gone wrong lol
 
Forge DV's cost a fortune and require maintenance, ie: greasing of the piston, otherwise they can fail to seal = boost leak. They may look pretty, but unless you are going to show off your engine bay on a concourse somewhere, why bother with the aesthetics?

I'm running over 400bhp on 710N's and I know that there are some RS4's running higher boost still using these. They cost about £40-50 delivered for a pair and they'll last for a few years.

No brainer IMHO.
Service intervals will vary based on how often the car is driven and environmental conditions, for example, a valve on a car in an extremely cold part of the world will require more frequent service than one in a temperate climate, as will a DV used in a very dusty or sandy location.

My usual recommendation is to test the valve once or twice a year and service as needed, which might not be but every year or three.

There is a PDF in the media section of our site that details the test and the service procedure. I am unable to post a link due to insufficient posts, look for "valve service guide".


That being said, the servicing is to ensure proper operation of the valve for what will essentially be the lifetime of the car. The OEM valves fail on both of these points.

Just about any valve will "hold" an extremely high amount of pressure but nearly all OEM valves (and many poorly designed uprated valves) will close very slowly on boost onset, which hurts response, and many that are softly sprung run the risk of leaking boost as maximum boost pressure is reached due to a pressure differential between what is acting upon the discharge side of the valve (charge pipes) and the top of the valve (which gets its reference from the intake manifold). This is caused by pressure drop through the intercooler and other factors.

The stock valve suffers from both of these failings. Remember that turbo-charges are a feedback system. The pressure control mechanisms (N75, wastegate, etc) will try to reach a determined amount of pressure even if there is a leak. In this case the leak is the factory diverter valve. If the leak is severe enough there will be an apparent increase in boost pressure, although in reality it is just a decrease in the amount that is lost. If the leak is less severe peak boost pressures will remain the same but pressure curves will be much different as will the shaft speeds seen by the turbos. Which will prolong engine life and result in cooler air inlet temperatures, which are both desired results.

Also, when the factory valves fail, as they most likely will, the few days of drving with such a large leak will absolutely wreck havoc on the turbine bearings as the turbos spin to astronomical speeds to try and pressurize the intake pipes in vain as air leaks from the ruptured valves.

@DPM: I'm surprised that you could hear your DV losing boost on the motorway with the wind and road noise, especially seeing as how the DV's are pretty much silent.

They become more audible as the amount of air that they are failing to contain increases.

It's possible that if you were running high boost you managed to outperform your 710N on an S3, but remember that the boost pressure is shared over two DV's on an S4. I'm running peak 25psi with no problems on 710N's, ie: 12.5psi per DV.
This is incorrect. The volume that is vented by each is half what it would be with a single valve but the pressure is the same.
 
pat@forge said:
Service intervals will vary based on how often the car is driven and environmental conditions, for example, a valve on a car in an extremely cold part of the world will require more frequent service than one in a temperate climate, as will a DV used in a very dusty or sandy location.

My usual recommendation is to test the valve once or twice a year and service as needed, which might not be but every year or three.

There is a PDF in the media section of our site that details the test and the service procedure. I am unable to post a link due to insufficient posts, look for "valve service guide".


That being said, the servicing is to ensure proper operation of the valve for what will essentially be the lifetime of the car. The OEM valves fail on both of these points.

Just about any valve will "hold" an extremely high amount of pressure but nearly all OEM valves (and many poorly designed uprated valves) will close very slowly on boost onset, which hurts response, and many that are softly sprung run the risk of leaking boost as maximum boost pressure is reached due to a pressure differential between what is acting upon the discharge side of the valve (charge pipes) and the top of the valve (which gets its reference from the intake manifold). This is caused by pressure drop through the intercooler and other factors.

The stock valve suffers from both of these failings. Remember that turbo-charges are a feedback system. The pressure control mechanisms (N75, wastegate, etc) will try to reach a determined amount of pressure even if there is a leak. In this case the leak is the factory diverter valve. If the leak is severe enough there will be an apparent increase in boost pressure, although in reality it is just a decrease in the amount that is lost. If the leak is less severe peak boost pressures will remain the same but pressure curves will be much different as will the shaft speeds seen by the turbos. Which will prolong engine life and result in cooler air inlet temperatures, which are both desired results.

Also, when the factory valves fail, as they most likely will, the few days of drving with such a large leak will absolutely wreck havoc on the turbine bearings as the turbos spin to astronomical speeds to try and pressurize the intake pipes in vain as air leaks from the ruptured valves.



They become more audible as the amount of air that they are failing to contain increases.


This is incorrect. The volume that is vented by each is half what it would be with a single valve but the pressure is the same.

All interesting stuff :)

Was just about to order a pair of 710N's aswell lol

I may aswell just toss a coin.
 
Who would have thought that a guy who makes/sells Forge parts would be saying how bad everything else is LOL. Add the customary turbo exploding story and you can take that money straight to the bank.

I am sorry but I somewhat cynical of sales/marketing guys, their job is to sell their parts, not publicly say that they are not that great as the competition.
 
I would never be so brazen as to say something that contradicts physics :)
 
Not sure if everyone is aware, but if you have problems with your Forge valve and it fails any of the tests, a quick email to them and they will send out all the replacement parts you need to make it serviceable. I have had my forge for 3 years and a couple of months ago they sent me out all new 'o' rings, grease and a new piston.......all FOC. Now thast what I call after service!!!
 
if you pop over to www.rs246.co.uk and ask this question on the S4 forum you will hear 710n's 90% of the time. They come highly recommended by most people and MRC Tuning - they remapped my S4 to 320bhp and ive had no probs with the 710n's.

No one is saying the Forge items are any worse (im sure they perform perfectly) but they cost many times as much?!?! no brainer really.
 
APR-R1s. If you've got the budget get 'em!