MTec HID Kit - Recommended for all Audi Drivers

[dunk]

i forgot - the xenon housing (xenon low, halogen high) uses the same 10-pin connector as the halogen, but the levelling motor uses 4 wires and a digital stepper motor control system where as the halogen housing uses a 3-wire analog system connected to the manual adjustment pot.

its possible to swap the motors so you can use oem housings, ballast and starter with the manual electic adjustment but probably only worth it if you get a great price on a pair of oem hid housings

the bixenon lights are completely different - they use a 14-pin socket and dont have a halogen main beam - that wire is used to feed the inner daytime running light which is a 21w conventional bulb, it uses an extra wire from the central electrics to power the shutter that switches between low and high beam. again they use the 4-wire automatic levelling system and these housing cant be modified to use the analog levellers.

its possible to retrofit the bixenons without anything extra other than a plug-n-play loom adapter if you use vag-com to give you the setup for xenon/halogen with daylight running and connect the high beam feed to the shutters - this will cost about £35 plus the bixenon lights and gives you no height adjustment but low xenons on as daylight running with the high xenon beam as flash or high beam - this is what i've ended up doing but i may add the automatic levelling system in the future

 

[fesss_84]

dunk, evertime i read your signature the 540BHP turns me on. i cant wait to get an rs4 looool

 

[bacardi]

The major problem with the aftermarket xenons is not so much that they are, in effect, just brighter bulbs but that they are brighter bulbs placed in a headlamp who's reflector and lenses were not designed for a xenon. The headlamp was designed to very tight tollerances for a halogen bulb light source. A xenon light source produces it's light in a different place to a halogen bulb and therefore needs a reflector and lense designed accordingly. The is why the actual headlamp is a totally different component as far as Audi are concerned. The Audi xenon headlight is designed, again to very tight tollerances and has be tested by an independent laboratory to show it produces an acurate and sharply cut-off beam pattern inorder to gain EU component type approval.

Surely with all high tech lab work that Audi technicians have undertaken to design these headlamps to exacting standards, they feel that a 55w bulb was adequate, what could the implications be from using an uprated ones? I'm guessing dazzling other road users, the main reason you used in your argument against HID kits - however something you have used yourself in the past, hmmmmmm


Dave - have you actually seen a Xenon bulb? The light source is not in a different place, its actually very close to the halogen one, we're talking of a bulb that's 2cm long, not 2m long, (if the bulbs were different they'd not fit in the standard headlamps)

I do agree that HID kits badly fitted are a danger and in many cases this will be true, just as the dodgy 80% brighter bullbs can be (If they last long enough)

The main difference in HID headlamps to std halogen ones is that HID use the projector style "fish eye" headlamp assembly. These headlights don't work very well with halogen bulbs as the bulb's luminance is simply not good enough - believe me, my Subaru had these lights without HID and they were dismal (Though I soon retro fitted HID to it )

 

[Teejay]

private sector always does better than public, no1. competition is aways good for customer, and no2, it will put alot of ppl out of work.

regards

sorry I disagree with this statement.
one word...

Trains!!

 

[Isoproturon]

Surely with all high tech lab work that Audi technicians have undertaken to design these headlamps to exacting standards, they feel that a 55w bulb was adequate, what could the implications be from using an uprated ones? I'm guessing dazzling other road users, the main reason you used in your argument against HID kits - however something you have used yourself in the past, hmmmmmm

Very much doubt Audi design the headlight units themselves Valeo, maybe.

 

[Teejay]

Aren't they Hella units, like the VW's ??

 

[alfiejts]

Right - I've let three pages of comments go by without joining in the debate but time now for my unbiased opinion....

I speak as someone who is unconnected with any interested company and who has spent his own hard earned money on an aftermarket Xenon kit in the past, so I have a totally unbiased view.
I'm also not someone who has a rose tinted view of the law and automatically believes that everything that is not technically legal is necessarily completely wrong - but nor do I believe in anarchy - somethimes the law is there for a valid reason, sometings its just out of date....

With regard to aftermarket Xenons then....

1) The only Xenon bulbs manufactured are "D2S" or "D2R" types for OEM Xenon use. Bulb manufacturers do not make Xenon bulbs in H7 or any other fitting.
If you buy a kit with an H7 Xenon bulb (or any other "halogen" base) then someone has taken the glass capsule out of a D2S bulb, fabricated a different mount for it and stuck the two together. FACT.

The risk you take is how accurately they've done that and got the focal point of the glass capsule in exactly the place that it needs to be for the focal point of an H7 bulb (and the alignment is critical for a correct beam pattern).

You could be lucky and get two good bulbs or you could be unlucky - its a gamble. One of mine was OK, one was about 1mm out and nothing I could do could give me a decent beam pattern.

2) Secondly, OEM Xenons and Halogen headlights have different beam patterns. Halogen reflectors have a "tick" shape with a kick up to lighten the nearside verge. Because Xenon bulbs are brighter, they have a "z" shaped pattern where the light is better controlled at the kerb edge.

In addition to the different beam shape, the design of the H7 bulb and Halogen reflector inevitably allows some light scatter above the beam cut-off. If you shine the lights at a wall, its not totally dark above the "cut-off" whereas if you do that with OEM Xenon headlights, it is totally dark above the beam cutoff line.

Both of the above mean that if you stick a much brighter bulb (of ay type) in an H7 reflector housing, you will dazzle oncoming traffic and traffic you're passing in the nearside lane of a motorway.

If you're the sort who doesn't care about the effect you're having on other motorists then fine, but if you've half a conscience about other road users you won't use a Xenon bulb in a headlight unit that's not designed for them.

If you want a brighter light - buy the new Phillips +80 halogen bulb or fit a projector headlight that's designed for Xenon bulbs with the right beam pattern.

On top of all that, even if you buy an aftermarket kit that's designed to work with the Audi Canbus system (so it doesn't flicker or cause a bulb warning), there is a developing school of thought that aftermarket Xenon ballasts are damaging the sensitive electronics in the wiper motor assembly.

I'm using now using aftermarket ballasts to drive OEM Xenon headlight units, but I'm now on my fourth wiper motor in 18 months - and I didn't have a failure until I fitted the ballasts. There's no proof of cause and effect, but don't say you weren't warned about that side-effect too.

The technicalities of "self levelling" and "headlight washers" are designed to reduce dazzle.
Dirt on the headlights causes more dazzle and obviously if they're pointing too high, that will dazzle too.

As I said above, I'm not obsessed about the technicalities of the law. I've fitted the 3-level manual levelling on mine and adjust them religiously depending on conditions. I also clean my headlights regularly - before every journey and sometimes mid-journey on bad days - so again, I comply with the spirit of the law here.

Main reason I binned my aftermarket H7 set up was the glare and dazzle I was causing to others.
When the reflection from overhead motorway signs are so bright that they dazzle me back and when every car I pass on the motorway flashes me because my beam pattern has dazzled them in their door mirror as I pass, then guilt got the better of me and I took the kit off....

I'm not going to preach any more and haven't any axe to grind - just want to share my own personal experience to the benefit of others....

 

[Von Maximo]

Well put alfiejts. . . .

 

[ianhowell]

If you want a brighter light - buy the new Phillips +80 halogen bulb or fit a projector headlight that's designed for Xenon bulbs with the right beam pattern.....

I Know this is the wrong place for a TT question but it is about HID upgrade.

Does this mean I could upgrade the halogen dip beam on a TT S2 with the projector units to after market HID?

Ian

 

[h5djr]

Right - I've let three pages of comments go by without joining in the debate but time now for my unbiased opinion....

A useful post. It's nice to know that some members take this matter seriously and are concerned about the effect on other road uses and have also gone to the trouble to do the job properly and retro-fit OEM headlamps.

Personally my main concern is the actual OEM headlamps rather than the fitting of auto-levelling and headlamp washers. Providing a driver uses the manual levelling sensibly and keeps the headlamps clean these should not cause too many problems.

 

[bacardi]

Right - I've let three pages of comments go by without joining in the debate but time now for my unbiased opinion....

I speak as someone who is unconnected with any interested company and who has spent his own hard earned money on an aftermarket Xenon kit in the past, so I have a totally unbiased view.
I'm also not someone who has a rose tinted view of the law and automatically believes that everything that is not technically legal is necessarily completely wrong - but nor do I believe in anarchy - somethimes the law is there for a valid reason, sometings its just out of date....

With regard to aftermarket Xenons then....

1) The only Xenon bulbs manufactured are "D2S" or "D2R" types for OEM Xenon use. Bulb manufacturers do not make Xenon bulbs in H7 or any other fitting.
If you buy a kit with an H7 Xenon bulb (or any other "halogen" base) then someone has taken the glass capsule out of a D2S bulb, fabricated a different mount for it and stuck the two together. FACT.
...

Urm - my HID bulbs do not have a H7 fitment, did yours? how on earth did the 12v supply from the H7 connector manage to power the HID kit? very impressive,

The ones I have are powered by the transformer/ballast combination, and are in fact, standard Xenon bulbs not something some cowboy in a pub had welded together, when they need replacing I can buy them from a regular dealer FACT


Also - Dave

"A useful post. It's nice to know that some members take this matter seriously and are concerned about the effect on other road uses and have also gone to the trouble to do the job properly and retro-fit OEM headlamps."


Are you saying I do not care about other road users? Gee, that's pleasant!

More people have flashed the Xenon's in the A3 than the ones in the missus car if we're using this as a barometer

If I recall correctly we were following you the other week (just before xmas on the s'nots bypass) and you didnt appear to be blinded, nor did the on coming traffic.

As I have said before, if there was an OEM kit availabile I would have ordered it for the wife's car, there wasnt

 

[h5djr]

Are you saying I do not care about other road users? Gee, that's pleasant!

More people have flashed the Xenon's in the A3 than the ones in the missus car if we're using this as a barometer

If I recall correctly we were following you the other week (just before xmas on the s'nots bypass) and you didnt appear to be blinded, nor did the on coming traffic.

As I have said before, if there was an OEM kit availabile I would have ordered it for the wife's car, there wasnt

What I am saying is that some people do not seem to care about other road users - if the cap fits then wear it. Some people fit after market Xenons and seem to have them set as high as possible to give maximum vision to them and don't care about anyone else. I am not saying you are necessarily one of them.

How do you know your lights did not annoy me if you were behind me? They probably wouldn't because I have auto-dimming rear view and door mirrors, so bright lights would dim them anyway.

My A3 has OEM Xenons fitted and in the 10 months I have had them I have never been flashed by another drive so I can only assume they are set correctly and the auto-levelling is working as it should.

I am still of the opinion, together with the DfT, that if someone wants to fit Xenon headlamps then they should do the job properly and fit headlamps with lenses designed for xenon light units and not just put xenon light units into headlights designed for halogen bulbs.

 

[bacardi]

Cap fits?!

Hmmmm, mature


Glad you and the DfT agree, your cap sizes seem the same too

 

[bacardi]

Cap fits?!

Hmmmm, mature


Glad you and the DfT agree, your cap sizes seem the same too

Posted before I'd finished typing, must have been dazzled by light


What I can't understand is your sweeping generalisation that just because the headlights I've fitted are aftermarket they cannot be good, they will dazzle other users and because of this I am a hethen who has no respect for other road users Yet you seem to think fitting higher wattage, or higher light output bulbs are ok, which I think the DfT also disagree with don't they?

 

[alfiejts]

Handbags at dawn....

I love this subject, it always brings out the extremes in people....

 

[h5djr]

What I can't understand is your sweeping generalisation that just because the headlights I've fitted are aftermarket they cannot be good

I sure they are of good quality but the quality or not of the HID units is not the question. However good they are, if they are fitted into the OEM headlamps that were designed for a halogen bulb, then they are wrong and illegal.

80w and 100w halogen bulbs fitted into OEM headlamps are also illegal but the 'high light output' 55w and 60w halogen bulbs are perfectly legal as they are fitted into a headlamp designed for a halogen bulb.

It's the actual headlamp design that is the problem. If you were to fit after-market xenon units into headlamps designed for a xenon light source then I would have no problem with that at all. It's the second rate job of a xenon light source in a headlamp designed for a xenon light source that is the problem. Can you not see that (sorry about the pun).

 

[bacardi]

Handbags at dawn....

I love this subject, it always brings out the extremes in people....

Oh yeah, agree there, though extreme hasn't started yet

~what fitment did your HID kit have then?

 

[bacardi]

I sure they are of good quality but the quality or not of the HID units is not the question. However good they are, if they are fitted into the OEM headlamps that were designed for a halogen bulb, then they are wrong and illegal.

80w and 100w halogen bulbs fitted into OEM headlamps are also illegal but the 'high light output' 55w and 60w halogen bulbs are perfectly legal as they are fitted into a headlamp designed for a halogen bulb.

It's the actual headlamp design that is the problem. If you were to fit after-market xenon units into headlamps designed for a xenon light source then I would have no problem with that at all. It's the second rate job of a xenon light source in a headlamp designed for a xenon light source that is the problem. Can you not see that (sorry about the pun).

of course, I could see it, do you seriously believe Audi/whoever makes their headlamps build their headlamps to focus the light of a Halogen bulb to the nearest micron? what about the other 2cm of light output from the bulb, do they waste this?

no, they don't, to think that the position of the light output from the bulb is different is absolute tosh both bulbs are almost identical in length, the focus of light is the same according to a very close friend who worked for Hella for 3 years - which is why Renault simply added Xenon bulbs to the previous generation laguna from the factory

The biggest benefit in Xenon comes from using projector headlamps, which halogen cannot drive properly due to their restricted range of light output

The reason the DfT do not condone aftermarket kits is down to the auto levelling, which as I've said before hardly works well in the first case on the A3 (Mine at least), absolutely feck all to do with the design of the headlamp lense

 

[SteveTDCi]

Has anybody read this months Audi driver ? There is an artical about fitting HIDs in an A4, its worth a read.

 

[p9lad]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to let you know i fitted Ignition HID Kit to my car yesterday. I got it from a friend who doe sall car electrical work. Alarms, Audio etc... Basically we fitted the kit and we have not had any alarms about blown bulbs or my Wiper motor not working.

the supllier who we got it from knows all the factories that makes the HID kits and this is the best one. I got the basic kit for £200 pounds there is another kit for £260 which has an add on to stop the alarms goign off on teh Canbus system. Fortunately the system we fitted didnt raise any alarms. I will monitor it for a week and if anythign does happen will upgrade to the new kit!

 

[h5djr]

The arc light source in an HID headlamp is fundamentally different from the filament light source used in tungsten/halogen headlamps. For that reason, HID-specific optics are used to collect and distribute the light. Installing HID bulbs in headlamps designed to take filament bulbs results in improperly-focused beam patterns and excessive glare, and is therefore illegal in almost all countries.

For a more detailed explanation see the following article:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

As far a auto-levelling is concerned this is another very important part of a total Xenon headlamp package. The system of my A3 does work and works very well. I've tested this by parking the car on my level drive and marking the top of the headlamp beams on the garage door. I have then put some very heavy objects (bags of sand and cement) in the boot and also had two people sitting in the back seats and the auto-levelling ensured that the top headlamp beams remained in the same place.

Again as I have said in the past, I'm quite happy with anyone who wants to upgrade their headlamps to xenon, but I still think they should do the whole job and not just half a job. But it seems that to do the job properly is lost on some people. I know this happens with drivers of some cars but I expected better from drivers who have purchased an Audi.

 

[Von Maximo]

The arc light source in an HID headlamp is fundamentally different from the filament light source used in tungsten/halogen headlamps. For that reason, HID-specific optics are used to collect and distribute the light. Installing HID bulbs in headlamps designed to take filament bulbs results in improperly-focused beam patterns and excessive glare, and is therefore illegal in almost all countries.

For a more detailed explanation see the following article:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

As far a auto-levelling is concerned this is another very important part of a total Xenon headlamp package. The system of my A3 does work and works very well. I've tested this by parking the car on my level drive and marking the top of the headlamp beams on the garage door. I have then put some very heavy objects (bags of sand and cement) in the boot and also had two people sitting in the back seats and the auto-levelling ensured that the top headlamp beams remained in the same place.

Again as I have said in the past, I'm quite happy with anyone who wants to upgrade their headlamps to xenon, but I still think they should do the whole job and not just half a job. But it seems that to do the job properly is lost on some people. I know this happens with drivers of some cars but I expected better from drivers who have purchased an Audi.

Dave, Your tenacity with this subject is so great that I'm starting to suspect a lack purpose/direction in your life? Think you need to come out of retirement and get another job again!

 

[jdp1962]

The arc light source in an HID headlamp is fundamentally different from the filament light source used in tungsten/halogen headlamps. For that reason, HID-specific optics are used to collect and distribute the light. Installing HID bulbs in headlamps designed to take filament bulbs results in improperly-focused beam patterns and excessive glare, and is therefore illegal in almost all countries.

For a more detailed explanation see the following article:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

As far a auto-levelling is concerned this is another very important part of a total Xenon headlamp package. The system of my A3 does work and works very well. I've tested this by parking the car on my level drive and marking the top of the headlamp beams on the garage door. I have then put some very heavy objects (bags of sand and cement) in the boot and also had two people sitting in the back seats and the auto-levelling ensured that the top headlamp beams remained in the same place.

Again as I have said in the past, I'm quite happy with anyone who wants to upgrade their headlamps to xenon, but I still think they should do the whole job and not just half a job. But it seems that to do the job properly is lost on some people. I know this happens with drivers of some cars but I expected better from drivers who have purchased an Audi.

Can you not content yourself with presenting your view on a given subject once? If people find it persuasive, they will do so first time around. If they're not convinced, they still won't be after you've repeated it half a dozen times or more.

 

[h5djr]

Dave, Your tenacity with this subject is so great that I'm starting to suspect a lack purpose/direction in your life? Think you need to come out of retirement and get another job again!

Yes I must admit I've got all the time in the world to do what I like. It's actually rather nice after working for 44 years.

Perhaps I should get a job as a headlamp inspector!!!

All this extra time also allows me to answer quite a number of post and PMs with information from my various reference sources. If I was still working full time I would not have the time to do this, so it has it's benefit to others as well.

Enjoy your Audi....

 

[h5djr]

Can you not content yourself with presenting your view on a given subject once? If people find it persuasive, they will do so first time around. If they're not convinced, they still won't be after you've repeated it half a dozen times or more.

No, why should I. Different people keep arguing that the position I am taking is wrong when it's clearly not. There ARE major differences between the two types of headlamps and light sources and some people will not accept that as fact.

If all those who fit aftermarket HID kits in halogen headlamps and without the required auto-levelling will not accept that they are breaking the law by not doing the job properly, then I will continue to point out the error of their ways.

 

[bacardi]

No, why should I. Different people keep arguing that the position I am taking is wrong when it's clearly not. There ARE major differences between the two types of headlamps and light sources and some people will not accept that as fact.

If all those who fit aftermarket HID kits in halogen headlamps and without the required auto-levelling will not accept that they are breaking the law by not doing the job properly, then I will continue to point out the error of their ways.

Ok, I've never said that I did not accept I was breaking the law - one of my main points was that you seem to reccomend higher wattage bulbs in your previous cars, which in fact is illegal too whereas you seem to think anyone fitting HID is a selfish moron who is intent on causing disruption to as many roadusers as possible,

As I've mentioned before, many car companies have HID and halogen bulbs in the same headlamp reflector, albeit with Auto levelling added, so the reflector being finely tuned for bulbs is somewhat suspect . to say there is always a difference is simply naive

ON the subject of auto levelling, while I'm sure everything that all components of your multitude of audi's had worked flawlessly 100% of the time, the auto levelling of mine simply does not work - not being able to cope with a sloped driveway is something I would imagine the boffins at Audi should have considered, this is not me trying to make a point in a discussion thread, its a fact, something Audi seem to ignore too (along with the belief that 12 wheel bearings is normal )


I also find your comment about expecting more from audi drivers, are you saying that my wife's car, a toyota makes her a lesser person ;-)

oh and BTW< who the F is Daniel Stern?

 

[h5djr]

Just to point out that all the 'higher output' bulbs that I have used in the past have been perfectly legal halogen bulbs - all have been 55w output and met all the legal requirements for halogen headlamps and bulbs.

I think this whole subject of aftermarket headlamps is something that we are never going to agree on and I suggest that we leave it at that.

 

[marriedblonde]

Can you not content yourself with presenting your view on a given subject once? If people find it persuasive, they will do so first time around. If they're not convinced, they still won't be after you've repeated it half a dozen times or more.

This place is a forum and people are entitled to voice their opinion.

So long as it not abusive or offensive David is more than entitled to keep posting on the subject.

 

[Moisty]

This place is a forum and people are entitled to voice their opinion.

So long as it not abusive or offensive David is more than entitled to keep posting on the subject.

Agree on that one.

You can agree or diagree with an opinion, but surely you should not try to stop someone voicing an opinion even if it is repeated, should you?

 

[jdp1962]

This place is a forum and people are entitled to voice their opinion.

So long as it not abusive or offensive David is more than entitled to keep posting on the subject.

Apologies, MB, and indeed to you David. I wasn't intending to suggest you shouldn't continue to post, maybe that came out a bit wrong on my part. I just got the impression that the objective was to continue arguing your case until everybody agreed with you, which of course can never happen. No offence intended, and I hope none taken.

 

[h5djr]

Apologies, MB, and indeed to you David. I wasn't intending to suggest you shouldn't continue to post, maybe that came out a bit wrong on my part. I just got the impression that the objective was to continue arguing your case until everybody agreed with you, which of course can never happen. No offence intended, and I hope none taken.

No offence taken.

Perhaps if I keep on long enough everyone will agree with me just to shut me up - only jocking!!!

 

[marriedblonde]

Perhaps if I keep on long enough everyone will agree with me just to shut me up - only jocking!!!

Thats the ploy my wife takes...

 

[jdp1962]

Thats the ploy my wife takes...

Bet it works!

 

[bacardi]

Just to point out that all the 'higher output' bulbs that I have used in the past have been perfectly legal halogen bulbs - all have been 55w output and met all the legal requirements for halogen headlamps and bulbs.

I think this whole subject of aftermarket headlamps is something that we are never going to agree on and I suggest that we leave it at that.

Yeah, fair call (But I'm right )


Well that's the route my missus uses, I may get away with it here !

 

[h5djr]

Yeah, fair call (But I'm right )

In your opinion! - I would have to disagree.