REplacing tyres

[mikerd4]

Got two new F1's to fit tomorrow as I have two balding tyres. No point changing all four as there is plenty of tread left on two of them.

My question is do I put the fresh rubber on the front or rear being an S3?

 

[S3-ROB]

Best tyres should always go on the rear no matter what wheels are driven.

P.S. are you a member on E36COUPE.COM???

 

[mikerd4]

I am mate

 

[S3-ROB]

Thought your user name sounded familiar, i used to go on there quite a bit when i had my M3, still have a look round every now and again

You live in Ireland and got a yellow S3 or am i completely wrong?

 

[mikerd4]

Guilty as charged!
Used to have an E36 so still pop on there.

 

[Aky]

I'd put on the front as they tend to wear faster.

 

[S3-ROB]

Just had a quick look on E36COUPE and see your soon to be a dad, early congratulations mate, hope all goes well :icon_thumright:

 

[mikerd4]

thanks man!

Ive fitted them to the rear and will be getting two new fronts in the new year.

Car feels so much better already with new rears on, just shows how balding tyres can ruin the drive of a car

 

[AndyMac]

New tyres always go on the front (obviously), all the braking is on the fronts as is the drive on an S3 90% of the time.

 

[voorhees]

New tyres always go on the front (obviously)

Such finesse in how you help people...not
Although its four wheel drive (quattro) this only works when the front wheels slip so all the other time its FWD

 

[S3-ROB]

According to Michelin (who i used to work for) and Goodyear (who i now work for) your best tyres should always be fitted to the rear

If a front tyre blows out you can still control it as the front wheels steer, if a rear tyre blows out its much harder to control

A new tyre is less likely to blow out :icon_thumright:

 

[S3-ROB]

See below for more info :icon_thumright:

NEW_TYRES_TO_REAR

 

[AndyMac]

Never heard such garbage in all my life. A car is easier to control if the front tyre blows, rather than the rear - that's just blatant marketing ********.
Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I looked both steering and braking are predominantly from the fronts, always put your best rubber where it matters most.

 

[Issac Hunt]

Never heard such garbage in all my life. A car is easier to control if the front tyre blows, rather than the rear - that's just blatant marketing ********.
Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I looked both steering and braking are predominantly from the fronts, always put your best rubber where it matters most.

It isnt ******** in my experience, I was the rear seat passenger in a car that suffered a rear tyre blowout at approx 90 mph on the M6 a few years back - the car spun instantly and clipped both crash barriers as we spun accross the carriageway.

I can see that the best rubber on the front maybe makes sense from a steering and braking point of view but if you are talking about blowout prevention then the best tyres must surely go to the rear as there should be less chance of a new tyre failing.

Having said that the tyre technology has improved a lot in recent years, its over five years since the above incident and I've never had another.

 

[Rich-xstS3]

My old man has a taxi so goes through quite a few sets of tyres. He gets them fitted at a local Costco. They will not put new tyres onto the front of the car, only to the rear so he has to take the wheels off and take them round. Its there policy which is enforced by Michelin.

 

[AndyMac]

Well having suffered both a front wheel blow out and a rear (both on motorway at about 70-80mph) I know which I'd prefer. Front resulted in writing the car off, rear just needed a new tyre and was far easier to control. That's just plain physics I'm afraid, difficult to argue against, but I'm sure Michelin are putting the customers safety first and not trying to sell more tyres.
"It isnt ******** in my experience, I was the rear seat passenger in a car that suffered a rear tyre blowout at approx 90 mph on the M6 a few years back - the car spun instantly and clipped both crash barriers as we spun accross the carriageway."

This is only relevant if you can compare it to the alternative of a front blow out which might have resulted in loss of life in the same circumstances.
As for Costco - when I take tyre/safety advice from a cash & carry then I know I need help.

 

[Rich-xstS3]

What so your saying Michelin tyres arent any good? Well done mate!
The size of the tyre on the car is a bit of a strange one so he goes there because its a good tyre at a reasonable price. Plus its a 2 minute drive from the house.

 

[AndyMac]

Nope, just they (Michelin) would like to sell more of them.
Buy them at costco by all means, just don't expect sound advice from the saturday boys that work there!

 

[voorhees]

Well having suffered both a front wheel blow out and a rear (both on motorway at about 70-80mph)

How lucky are you?
I don't know one person who has suffered a blowout and I know a few

 

[AndyMac]

That's probably because I've been driving for over 20 years and do 25k miles per year - that's a lot of miles. The front was in a company car, about 15 years ago, the rear one happened only 2 years ago. The difference between the 2 was unbelievable (albeit the rear was on a quattro).
I probably handled it better the second time as well as I knew what had happened but the car was surprisingly driveable.
When the front went the tendancy is to try and correct the steering to keep going straight which is quite tricky with only one front wheel and god help you if you try braking which is most drivers immediate reflex.

 

[Dave_Bayern]

The tyres with the best grip should always go on the rear.

With ANY drive configuration.

This is to stop the rear of the car passing the front during hard braking or hard cornering.

If the rear breaks traction the car WILL spin, if the front breaks traction it usually will not spin.

The physics are out there on many many websites to back this up.

I've not got 20+ years of driving experience but I do have 5+ working for a motorsport company and Jaguar Racing.

Never heard anyone with any knowledge on car handling list possible blowouts as a cause or condition in regard to new tyre placement.

 

[Ess_Three]

I know what is said about it...

But I'm with Andy on this one.
I always put the new tyres on the front...if I have to change them in pairs...which I try not to by rotating to wear them all out.

Anyway, I would prefer the braking and putting down of power to be done by the new rubber.
On a FWD car the rears are just castors anyway...and all this crap about having the back come round on you?
On an Audi?
Have you tried getting the back out on a recent Audi (Bar the RS4)?
You can't.
They understeer off into the weeds...and I have no reason to suggest that having a lesser tread on the back (assuming it's the same type of tyre, and is in good condition and legal tread depth) is going to make a blind but of difference to that.

Certainly in my 19 years of driving, I've never found it to.

So front for me everytime.

(Although I won’t run with different types of tyres front and rear...which may make a difference)

 

[simch]

I think what the tyre fitting palces say is just BS! In my experience, new tyres are always best on the "driven" wheels, reason purely because then they will bed in and lose their crappy sheen so much quicker.

I had an Xr2 about 15 years ago and tyre place put new tyres on the rear.............about three weeks later, and near 800 miles on them, in the wet, I had to brake very hard as a car pulled out in front..........the back just started fishtailing, it was a mare. When I looked at the tyres later, the bobbles were still on them, even some of the glue from the sticker was still there! No wonder they lasted 40 k miles on the rear! !
So never again, always new on front now, and if I have 4, I do a couple of hundred on the front them swap front to back.
S3 I count as FWD.!!

 

[simch]

The tyres with the best grip should always go on the rear.

With ANY drive configuration.

This is to stop the rear of the car passing the front during hard braking or hard cornering.

If the rear breaks traction the car WILL spin, if the front breaks traction it usually will not spin.

The physics are out there on many many websites to back this up.

I've not got 20+ years of driving experience but I do have 5+ working for a motorsport company and Jaguar Racing.

Never heard anyone with any knowledge on car handling list possible blowouts as a cause or condition in regard to new tyre placement.

You're right, but grip levels on new and still legal road tyres is quite similar, infact as you will know many racers using road rubber "buff" ther tyres down to 6mil to increase grip as it reduced tread block movement.
But with the release agents used on road tyres, they are so slippy until bedded in, this is exactly why I fit them to the driven wheels, then you can bed them in quicker and with less drama, (eg a few quick starts).
I agree with you though if you had 2mil tread and brand new rubber and the 2mil was on the rear, in the wet this could catch people out!

 

[Dave_Bayern]

I can't see why people are saying its some kind of tyre manufacturer conspiracy? Surely a better conspiracy would be to get you to replace all 4 at once, otherwise they are still only getting the same money.
Or was this conspiracy started when Porsche 911's looked to be the way forward, so rears were bigger and cost more.

The rear of a FWD Audi VERY easily comes forward and sends the car into a spin, even when braking hard in a straight line, it doesnt even need to be raining, you just need a wet surface to do a proper 360-720 spin

Go-on, ask me how I know....(twice, once on a road and once on a track)

 

[Ess_Three]

The rear of a FWD Audi VERY easily comes forward and sends the car into a spin, even when braking hard in a straight line, it doesnt even need to be raining, you just need a wet surface to do a proper 360-720 spin

Go-on, ask me how I know....(twice, once on a road and once on a track)

Hmm...
I've had 2 VAG FWD cars (Mk 3 Golf GTIs) and the S3...and never have I managed to get it to spin, despite trying to provoke it where space allows (big empty space or track)

Even when stiffly sprung, with big ARBs and better brakes...I still can never see the rear overtaking the front.

What's your secret Dave?
Itchyfanny 2000 remoulds?

 

[Sam-K]

or he can't drive?

 

[Sam-K]

I'm only joking by the way before anyone gets offended.

 

[Ess_Three]

A swift retort young Sam...

I think I hear Dave tapping his delete key as we speak...

 

[Sam-K]

ha..

 

[marms]

Itchyfanny 2000 remoulds?

Think I've got those on mine, execept they are made by Pirrelli

or he can't drive?

Ouch... fighting talk there.

Split in opinion here then. Why not mix-n-match and put one on each

 

[AndyMac]

I can't believe this has caused such a debate TBH, I thought S3 ROB's original comment was just a typo!
As for Michelin's recommendation, I'll do the maths for you. Admittedly they won't sell more tyres but they will sell 4 more quickly and that's what it's all about in such a competitive market. If you take a brand new FWD car, the rears will probably last nearly twice as long as the fronts. So after 12 months & 15k miles you go to get 2 new front tyres, the Michelin tyre place tells you they will fit them on the rear and move the part worns to the front. These tyres are already half worn, so will only last another 7k miles on the front, so in less than 6 months you're back for 2 more tyres. If they'd left them on the rear and fitted the new ones to the front then you'd have had another 12 months/15k miles before getting all 4 done. They've sold you the same amount of tyres over the same period but got you to fork out 6 months early. Quite clever really.

 

[Dave_Bayern]

It was P-Zero Rossos both times.

The 100mph+ and maximum braking effort plus wet surface'might' have been a factor, but let me tell you, its a little TOO easy to spin it

 

[Sam-K]

That sounds a bit unpredictable dave? I'm gonna go put my stabilisers back on.

 

[Dave_Bayern]

You'll be ok, can a 1.6 do 100mph?

 

[AndyMac]

If the rear breaks traction the car WILL spin, if the front breaks traction it usually will not spin.

Very unusual for the rears to break traction before the fronts. 75% of the braking effect is from the fronts, that's where the weight is with more weight thrown forward as you brake. I'm talking about run of the mill driving here which is 99% of what we do in our cars, not thrashing round a track where I appreciate the dynamics are slightly different.
Personally I've had VAG cars for nearly 15 years and never been able to get the tail out, especially in a straight line. I can't imagine what you're doing to cause that, sounds like your handbrake's seized on or could it be the result of fitting new rubber to the rears? Not really a great recomendation either way.

 

[Sam-K]

I'll have you know, that i have reached 127miles per hour out of that wee 1600! haha

 

[rodenal]

Lol, maybe indicated but i think u'll find its hard to get by about 112 GPS.....so i hear

 

[marms]

I'll have you know, that i have reached 127miles per hour out of that wee 1600! haha

On a good day, down hill, with a strong back wind and on the speedo maybe.


Only kidding.

 

[HTC]

I was going to make a similar point to AndyMac about rear tyre life compared to front tyre life, but he did a better job than the wording I had in my head

I can see why Michelin might recommend a front end with less grip with regards to promoting understeer (most of the car industry would agree in terms of safety for the average driver). But I hate understeer, and I've tried to limit it for my car.

Just for the record I had a lot of fun the other day managing to get the rear of my car to slide, but that was down to some interesting front geometry and is another story.