The £40k Extra Excise Duty - RRP or OTR

[rngDeadeye]

Hi all

Having a bit of an argument with my dealer about my wife's S3. We spec'd it up to just under £40k so we would only be paying £140/month tax.

They're saying it's the OTR which means we're being stuffed for and extra £355/year.

Can anyone 100% confirm it's supposed to be the list price, not the on the road price.

Even the gov.uk website says list price!

Why does buying a new car have to be so painful?

 

[JSH96]

Hi all

Having a bit of an argument with my dealer about my wife's S3. We spec'd it up to just under £40k so we would only be paying £140/month tax.

They're saying it's the OTR which means we're being stuffed for and extra £355/year.

Can anyone 100% confirm it's supposed to be the list price, not the on the road price.

Even the gov.uk website says list price!

Why does buying a new car have to be so painful?

Yes it is OTR price, I only added 19 inch alloys with white paint back in February to avoid the £40k tax. Dealer assured me that even with price rises (which now does takes it over £40k) I would not be affected as the deal/order was confirmed with a deposit.

My S3 is now in the country so the dealer estimate of 6 months was spot on.

 

[rngDeadeye]

Yes it is OTR price, I only added 19 inch alloys with white paint back in February to avoid the £40k tax. Dealer assured me that even with price rises (which now does takes it over £40k) I would not be affected as the deal/order was confirmed with a deposit.

My S3 is now in the country so the dealer estimate of 6 months was spot on.

Mine is in the dealer waiting to be f'ing collected but we've got this argument going on.

They're now saying delivery is included in the list price so it takes it over by £160.

Ordered in August last year.

 

[rngDeadeye]

If I spec the car again on the Audi website it still comes under £40k.

 

[Jason1987]

Yeah I didn’t understand this. I don’t see why it’s the rotr price and you are being taxed extra for delivery etc. surely it should be done on the list price?

 

[twiggytheninja]

I also had this issue. But its the OTR price minus the first year road tax (i believe).
Do note that the DVLA works this out at time on registering the vehicle and not at time of ordering. So if you spec'd a car up and it was under, but due to price rises and length of time it seems to take nowadays the car could be over. I tried to argue this with the DVLA but there stand was its calculated at time of registering (I wasnt even saying the actual price i paid but the OTR price at time of ordering).

I ordered my S3 and it was under, and I confirmed with my dealer it was under, but there was a price increase before i took delivery and the DVLA work it out as over. Not a happy person.

 

[rngDeadeye]

It's as if there was a conspiracy between dealerships and the DVLA to make sure all cars are over £40k if possible.

 

[Frizzley]

'List Price' has a specific definition. It's the price of the car as published by the manufacturer, official importer or wholesale distributor of the car on the day before the car’s first registration.

The word 'distributor' doesn’t include a local retail dealership, which means that a dealer's after discount, on-the-road price is ignored.

What's in the 'List Price'?​

•	the basic price of the car;
•	the price of any options or accessories fitted to the car prior to delivery, plus any accessories fitted to the car after delivery where the accessory costs more than £100;
•	delivery charges; number plates; and
•	VAT on all of the above.

Here’s what’s not included in the definition of List Price:

•	Vehicle Excise Duty (the "tax disc");
•	the initial first Registration Fee;
•	any delivery fuel provided with the vehicle;

hopefully this helps but may not give you the answer you wanted. Looking at the configurator even the base model S3 tips above the £40k threshold

 

[rngDeadeye]

'List Price' has a specific definition. It's the price of the car as published by the manufacturer, official importer or wholesale distributor of the car on the day before the car’s first registration.

The word 'distributor' doesn’t include a local retail dealership, which means that a dealer's after discount, on-the-road price is ignored.

What's in the 'List Price'?​

Here’s what’s included in the definition of List Price:

•	the basic price of the car;
•	the price of any options or accessories fitted to the car prior to delivery, plus any accessories fitted to the car after delivery where the accessory costs more than £100;
•	delivery charges; number plates; and
•	VAT on all of the above.

Here’s what’s not included in the definition of List Price:

•	Vehicle Excise Duty (the "tax disc");
•	the initial first Registration Fee;
•	any delivery fuel provided with the vehicle;

hopefully this helps but may not give you the answer you wanted. Looking at the configurator even the base model S3 tips above the £40k threshold

Where did you find that?

That pretty much does it then.

So the reason they're being muppets is because my sales man knows he cocked up by not including delivery when we ordered.

We added roof rails and HBA because he confirmed the list price would be under £40k.

 

[Frizzley]

Previously fell foul of this when we bought the wifes Q3 which we got for just under £40k after a nice discount.

If you do a quick google search car tax list price definition you get some conflicting answers but basically they use the same list price definition that’s used for calculating bik on a company car

 

[rngDeadeye]

Previously fell foul of this when we bought the wifes Q3 which we got for just under £40k after a nice discount.

If you do a quick google search car tax list price definition you get some conflicting answers but basically they use the same list price definition that’s used for calculating bik on a company car

I've Googled the sh't out of this but it's conflicting as you say.

We did get about 10% discount but I'm not including that in my "list price".

 

[Frizzley]

I've Googled the sh't out of this but it's conflicting as you say.

We did get about 10% discount but I'm not including that in my "list price".

Which trim level have you gone for?

 

[rngDeadeye]

Boggo White + comfort and sound + HBA + roof bars

 

[Frizzley]

Frustrating to say the least

- the only other thing that might have caused this is Audi have increased their prices a couple of times since last year which has pushed the car above the threshold even though the price you paid has been fixed

 

[Mr Freeze]

The luxury tax was one of the first questions I asked about back in 2019 when we bought our S3 which was sat in the showroom
Car was £40.688 but had a few after care options on it which I asked to be taken off luckily for me the car £39.950 delivered so
I got the cheaper tax bracket I pay around £155 a year . It would pi$$ me off to pay around £500 for the same car just because it
had some extra options . Also I got it for £35k with todays prices I think I got a good deal .

 

[rngDeadeye]

Frustrating to say the least

- the only other thing that might have caused this is Audi have increased their prices a couple of times since last year which has pushed the car above the threshold even though the price you paid has been fixed

It’s still under £40k if you don’t factor delivery.

knob heads, this is utterly their fault.

We’ll probably flip it if/when my RS3 turns up anyway. (Well that’s how I’ve resolved the issue in my head).

 

[twiggytheninja]

If you click the footnote on the price within the Audi configurator you get

Recommended On-The-Road (OTR) prices include: delivery charge, half a tank of fuel, number plates, first registration fee at £55.00 and the first year's Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) (based on the 2022/23 VED rate).
The first year's VED for new cars is calculated on the basis of the car's CO2 emissions. From the second year onwards, you will pay £0 VED for a zero emissions car or a standard rate of £165 per year VED for any other car (when you pay annually). You will also pay an extra £355 per year from years 2 to 6 for a car with a list price of £40,000 or more (including factory installed options, delivery charge, number plates and VAT). From year 7 onwards, only the standard rate will apply.

So working out a standard S3 with C&S, Roof rails and HBA (stock wheels and solid white) the ROTR is 41540 minus the reg fee (55) and first year road tax (945),unfortunately it seems its over the threshold. Did you get any correspondence from you dealer saying it was under ?

 

[Terminator x]

It's as if there was a conspiracy between dealerships and the DVLA to make sure all cars are over £40k if possible.

Gordon Brown technique, don't increase the cap so over time more and more people are dragged in.

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[Terminator x]

To the OP. I'd expect the dealer to stump up the extra tax you are paying if they specifically said you would be ok?

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[rngDeadeye]

If you click the footnote on the price within the Audi configurator you get

Recommended On-The-Road (OTR) prices include: delivery charge, half a tank of fuel, number plates, first registration fee at £55.00 and the first year's Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) (based on the 2022/23 VED rate).
The first year's VED for new cars is calculated on the basis of the car's CO2 emissions. From the second year onwards, you will pay £0 VED for a zero emissions car or a standard rate of £165 per year VED for any other car (when you pay annually). You will also pay an extra £355 per year from years 2 to 6 for a car with a list price of £40,000 or more (including factory installed options, delivery charge, number plates and VAT). From year 7 onwards, only the standard rate will apply.

So working out a standard S3 with C&S, Roof rails and HBA (stock wheels and solid white) the ROTR is 41540 minus the reg fee (55) and first year road tax (945),unfortunately it seems its over the threshold. Did you get any correspondence from you dealer saying it was under ?

I quote:

"Hi Phil,

So the car is over the 40k being the ROTR is £40,635 before discount.

But this does still fall under the lower tax because the RRP is £39,025.

I have attached a PDF of the car for you."

 

[Frizzley]

I quote:

"Hi Phil,

So the car is over the 40k being the ROTR is £40,635 before discount.

But this does still fall under the lower tax because the RRP is £39,025.

I have attached a PDF of the car for you."

When Was this dated?

 

[rngDeadeye]

When Was this dated?

16th August last year.

 

[Frizzley]

When Was this dated?

If youve not done so already i compare the individual prices on the pdf the salesmen sent you to the latest prices shown on the configurator to see what if anything has changed and what has and hasn’t been included.

even if you added delivery charges to the number quoted above that should still be below £40k so looks like something else has changed.

id start with the base price of the car x gut feel without all the detail is it’s the price rises since last September that have pushed it over the threashold.

if its not and the salesman has made a mistake I’d be looking for the dealership to cover my additional costs

 

[rngDeadeye]

If youve not done so already i compare the individual prices on the pdf the salesmen sent you to the latest prices shown on the configurator to see what if anything has changed and what has and hasn’t been included.

even if you added delivery charges to the number quoted above that should still be below £40k so looks like something else has changed.

id start with the base price of the car x gut feel without all the detail is it’s the price rises since last September that have pushed it over the threashold.

if its not and the salesman has made a mistake I’d be looking for the dealership to cover my additional costs

I think I've subsequently read somewhere that DVLA use the list price from the day before registration. The current price does push it above £40k with delivery included.

Delivery is the fly in the ointment here it seems.

 

[rngDeadeye]

Turns out I’d spec’s the 19” trapezoid alloys too. So now we’ll over.

Anyway it’s home now and I must say looked lovely in the handover bay.

 

[JRD729]

When we specced the S3 we did it so it was just shy of the 40k (list price) .. BUT... I am now informed that the lovely DVLA value it on the LIST price of the car at the time of registration... and of course due to some price rises since we placed our order, the list price now takes it over the 40k! Due to some discount on the order we're actually paying an OTR price of under 39k! But the tax man has a 'heads we win, tails you lose' approach it seems... which is totally unfair!

The sad thing being that the UK Govt will likely never raise the 40k threshold, so as the prices rise more and more cars will fall into this 'luxury' bracket. Shameful!

 

[rngDeadeye]

When we specced the S3 we did it so it was just shy of the 40k (list price) .. BUT... I am now informed that the lovely DVLA value it on the LIST price of the car at the time of registration... and of course due to some price rises since we placed our order, the list price now takes it over the 40k! Due to some discount on the order we're actually paying an OTR price of under 39k! But the tax man has a 'heads we win, tails you lose' approach it seems... which is totally unfair!

The sad thing being that the UK Govt will likely never raise the 40k threshold, so as the prices rise more and more cars will fall into this 'luxury' bracket. Shameful!

Dealers not exactly up front with telling you this stuff either. More likely they just don't know.

The whole thing boiled my p'ss tbh and took a bit of a shine off the whole experience for both of us.

it's a lovely car though and I'm glad I forgot I added the bigger wheels!

 

[Sparks43]

Mine is in the dealer waiting to be f'ing collected but we've got this argument going on.

They're now saying delivery is included in the list price so it takes it over by £160.

Ordered in August last year.

Unfortunately they are correct Delivery and Registration I believe is part of the price that dictates the additional road fund

What I want to know is that why isn't the additional road fund added to electric cars over £40K bearing in mind it's a luxury tax not an emissions tax - People will say it's because they don't want to put people off buying them which is why they had the grant but that's gone now anyway, so not particularly fair is it