S4 - Manual or Auto choice

Scott.T

Scott.T

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Now I'm very much a 'driver' and have always had manuals. Up until recently I had never driven an Auto.
But after a 300 mile trip in an 2015 Auto VW Passat, I could start to see the appeal of a high powered Auto in 'S' mode (although I had to use some imagination with the Passat).

I've got the itch to start looking at upgrading the A4 B8.5 BE for a slightly earlier B8 S4, but not sure whether to go for the Auto or Manual.
I do know, from recent reading, that it 'MUST' have Audi Drive Select.

Yesterday I found a high spec 2009 Auto, but unfortunately it didn't hang around in the dealers long enough for me to see/drive it.
Today I have found a similar spec Manual, 2012 B8 so slightly newer and 1/2 the mileage.

I would value your opinions on the Pro's & Con's of either box.

Lastly, do you still get the parps/crackles from the Manual or is this a Auto shifting feature ?
Cheers
 
Slightly biased, as I've owned autos only since 1989. As far as the S4 with S-Tronic is concerned, I don't think I'd contemplate it any other way. The changes, whether manual- or auto-induced, are lightning fast, and very smooth. I have so much control that I couldn't see any point in having a clutch to stamp my foot on a thousand times a day.
 
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I went manual in the end.
Mainly due to the possibility of a huge bill if the S-Tonic fecked up
 
xpoweruk said:
I went manual in the end.
Mainly due to the possibility of a huge bill if the S-Tonic fecked up
Click to expand...
That's a fair point.
Do manuals tend to be cheaper on the forecourt and hence less desirable when it comes to selling
 
When looking for my S4 (B8.5 Avant) I was only looking for an S-Tronic car. Ive most recently come from a manual 370z, with a couple of hot hatches prior to that, and really do enjoy a good manual gearbox. The 370z had a great box and i loved the feedback you got off it, however the clutch is not known for being great, mainly due to a poorly designed slave cyclinder.

The only other auto i have owned was an 09 Merc C250 which i had before the 370z. That car was a 5 speed and it really put me off having an auto, as it was unpredictable, slow and quite clunky.

The box S-Tronic box in the Audi is fantastic, and i cant fault it. I am very happy with my decision, and dont miss having a manual (yet!).
 
The S-Tronic/DSG is better described, as Audi often do, as an auto clutch. Don't forget it still has a clutch (two of them in fact). Sure, it has an auto mode which a lot of folk seem to favour , but it is a very flexible transmission, and very different than a conventional torque converter auto.
I'll be honest, there is the odd time I miss a manual gearbox, but 95% not. That 5% would never be when pressing on however, as the S-Tronic is SERIOUSLY good when on a hoon !
 
Reliability aside, they are great, much better than the auto box I had in my supra, and don't miss the manual one bit, once used to the paddles it's a lot of fun as well. Just research them fully and go in with your eyes open is my only advice
 
Scott.T said:
That's a fair point.
Do manuals tend to be cheaper on the forecourt and hence less desirable when it comes to selling
Click to expand...
No real difference price wise.
They are much rarer in manual though
 
This question has been asked by many for years and up until I 1st drove a DSG Golf I hated auto's with a passion, I remeber my dad loving them and thinking how I hated the slow unresponsive slugishness of traditional autoboxes with torque convertors.

I wanted an RS4 so had no choice but an "auto" box but I have to say the DSG boxes from Audi are excellent and quash all of those pre-conseptions of old slugish gearboxes; and these are Audi designed and built boxes, its not until you get to the R8 you get a 3rd party box.

I love my DSG and when I put the car in comfort mode it potters around town like a 2.0 TDI, in Dynamic and redlined it in all 7 gears the box and the car is f***ing amazing!!!!!!!
 
Scott. If you want to drive hard, drive it in "manual". On the "stick" or paddles. Around town? Don't even have to think about it. Silky smooth.These DSG gearboxes are so flexible. They really are as good as all these guys say.
 
But what about the exhaust farts......are they reserved for the auto only.
I ask as very keen to view one 45 miles from me with a spec that ticks every box. Alcantara (not a full leather fan), super sports seats, satnav, ADS.......but it's manual. If it comes with farts it could be the one (apologies for the obscenities)
 
I believe that the upshift exhaust 'coughs' are exclusive to the direct shift gearbox (S-Tronic).
 
The farts are a DSG/S-tronic thing I believe.
However,I have found that since having the Milltek i can easily get a nice pop on shifting gears with the 6MT though
 
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Yes, the exhaust blips are a DSG feature, this can only be achieved if you toe & Heel your gear changes in a manual which is where its derived from. I used to be able to get my old S4 (B6) to sound simular but becasue Audi don't fit thier brake pedals level witht the accelerator its not as easy. My E90 M3 was easy to make sound the same but the Audi DSG just does it for you, simple.

Note, even though I discovered yesterday that the B8 S4/S5 exhaust not you hear in the cabin is fake :-(
 
Isn't the soundaktor(sp) only on the B8.5 ?
 
jdp1962 said:
Ask yourself seriously, how important are exhaust farts?
Click to expand...
Very.
I've been driving Subarus non-stop for 15 years so what comes out the exhaust is important to me. It's all about the soundtrack.
I will be selling my A4 and my Subaru, which has been part of the family longer then my 11 year old son, to fund the S4 so any character or sole achieved through a good (but not shouty) exhaust note is high on the wish list.
 
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Historically they are very important for manual geaboxes, its not about the noise its about syncronising speed between internal gear shafts/cogs within the box. Now weather Audi use ot for engineering enhancment reasons in thier DSG or just for the drama I don't know.

Watch and listen to Russel Ingall in this clip
 
Scott.T said:
Very.
I've been driving Subarus non-stop for 15 years so what comes out the exhaust is important to me. It's all about the soundtrack.
I will be selling my A4 and my Subaru, which has been part of the family longer then my 11 year old son, to fund the S4 so any character or sole achieved through a good (but not shouty) exhaust note is high on the wish list.
Click to expand...
Fair dos, if it helps steer you towards the S-Tronic, all the better. :)
 
GeoffDunk said:
Historically they are very important for manual geaboxes, its not about the noise its about syncronising speed between internal gear shafts/cogs within the box. Now weather Audi use ot for engineering enhancment reasons in thier DSG or just for the drama I don't know.]
Click to expand...
You're 100%right on the historical aspect. I learned to drive in cars that didn't have all-synchromesh gearboxes, so needed to know how to double declutch and heel and toe.
 
Surprised no one's mention Launch Control, which is a S-tronic thing only

 
Same here @jdp1962.I used to hate the fact the Audi never fitted pedals that matched so it was always awkward to do, BMW are better, but Porsche pedals are perfect for it seeing as the accelerator pedal hinges from the floor just like race car pedal boxes.

WIth regards to the DSG going up the gears it phenominal in full dynamic mode on the RS4, i just bangs through the gears, I couldn't change it manually any where near as fast as that.

And yes, launch control, stunning!
 
Wouldn't go back to manual now having had S Tronic. Another thing I found is the tax on manuals was much more than the S Tronic. From memory it was £475 vs £280 for a 2011 car. This was early 2013.

As razza says the only question mark is reliability. However I'll say this, my Dad's had 3 DSG Passats without any problems.
 
My tax is only £280,same as the S-Tronic.
 
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My tax is £225, but then if I was worried about £55 per year I wouldn't have bought an S5 anyway!
 
GeoffDunk said:
Watch and listen to Russel Ingall in this clip
Click to expand...
Interesting to have seen that as I've never really understood what 'heel and toe' really was. I still don't really know what 'double declutch' is. :(

Not that I had a choice of manual on my S5, I too can say that I will now never go back to a manual. Hopefully Audi have got the reliability sorted in the latest s-tronic, but I'll still take the risk for the pleasure of the lightning quick gear changes. However I do admit that I wasn't the best manual driver, even with the shortshift on my B5. Although I tried hard not too, I did occasionally fail to use the clutch properly and grimace as I heard gears scraping. No risk of that now :)
 
Dippy said:
Interesting to have seen that as I've never really understood what 'heel and toe' really was. I still don't really know what 'double declutch' is. :(
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Double declutching is almost a lost art now, but for anyone used to driving a car in the 1970s, it was invaluable for smooth downchanging. Even then, a lot of cars still didn't have synchromesh on first gear, and for any car more than five years old, it was pretty safe bet that the synchromesh on second and third in particular would be worn out, making for clunky changes. So, to down change, here's what you did:

1) press the clutch in;
2) move the gear lever to neutral;
3) release the clutch whilst simultaneously blipping the throttle;
4) press the clutch in;
5) move the gear lever into the gear of your choice;
6) release the clutch.

It sounds slow and time-consuming, but like all things in this world, with practice, it became seamless and, to me at least, second nature. I was in Jersey in May, and had a hire car with a manual box. First time in 25 years I was changing gear manually, and I instantly and instinctively double-declutched.

Heel and toe-ing is simply the technique necessary to double de-clutch whilst braking at the same time.
 
"Heel and Toe" also allows you to trail brake a car into a corner balancing it on the brake and throttle at the same time through the corner, very satisfying when done correctly, not for everyday road use though, track days are where this should be practiced, still works with a DSG box too.
 
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I thought that pressing the brake on an s-tronic disabled the throttle input, unless launch control was engaged....may be wrong.
 
opelfruit said:
I thought that pressing the brake on an s-tronic disabled the throttle input, unless launch control was engaged....may be wrong.
Click to expand...

Agreed, not sure how/why you would heel toe a DSG as the brake over-rides the throttle (except launch) ?
 
No choice of transmission for me when I ordered my S4. The S3 I currently have is S-Tronic, and I would say I'm firmly a manual man. I didn't try the manual but was initially blown away by the S-tronic and wanted to see what it was like to live with.

I hated the auto transmission in my X5 so much it only lasted about 6 weeks. S-tronic is definitely not a typical slush box auto. The description that it's an auto clutch is spot on. In almost all respects, apart from using your left leg, it acts as a manual box.

Occasionally I do miss changing gear, and enjoyed driving my wife's Q5 yesterday making each change as smooth as possible. I do miss a manual about 5% of the time but the other 95% I'm pretty happy (well I have ordered another S-tronic :happy:). The 2 things I don't like as much with the S-tronic are the slight delay in change down when you just want a lower gear (I want instant, not smooth) and you're not on the brakes, and when you go for a 4th-2nd downshift and you find yourself mashing the throttle before you actually have drive and you get nothing then a lurch. I know this is because both gears are on the same clutch pack, and in reality it's quicker than a manual change but it's frustrating all the same.

I guess other things to mention (some repetition of above) are launch control, and burps are S-tronic only. You will have 7 gears (6 in the manual) which I would suspect will be more fuel efficient. To be honest I've no idea whether the ratios are tighter, or whether 7th is purely an overdrive for motorways. I'd check out the tax situation too (higher with the manual?) .. but I think that might be year dependent :shrug:

Try them and see what you prefer would be the best advice :yes:
 
Cheers for all the input guy's this has turned into a really useful thread.
I looked at but didn't drive a 2011 manual yesterday and if I'm honest I couldn't justify p-ex'ing my 2012 facelift s-line black edition and throwing in 6K from the sale of my garage queen subaru.
As I have a facelift BE there's not a great deal extra coming with the S4 to justify a 3-4k hit on the P-ex and an additional 6K.
More so as it was a manual. I wouldn't even benefit from the value and experience of s-tronic technology.

If I were upgrading from an earlier low spec model or even an A3 or other marque it would be easier to justify.

I think I need to wait until the B8.5 S4's drop a bit and/or keep an eye on S3 saloon prices, as quite like these in Sepang.
 
Scott.T said:
Cheers for all the input guy's this has turned into a really useful thread.
I looked at but didn't drive a 2011 manual yesterday and if I'm honest I couldn't justify p-ex'ing my 2012 facelift s-line black edition and throwing in 6K from the sale of my garage queen subaru.
As I have a facelift BE there's not a great deal extra coming with the S4 to justify a 3-4k hit on the P-ex and an additional 6K.
More so as it was a manual. I wouldn't even benefit from the value and experience of s-tronic technology.

If I were upgrading from an earlier low spec model or even an A3 or other marque it would be easier to justify.

I think I need to wait until the B8.5 S4's drop a bit and/or keep an eye on S3 saloon prices, as quite like these in Sepang.
Click to expand...

Oh! And at least wait for my ECU to come back from Rick @ Unicorn motorsport developments ;).
 
Scott.T said:
I think I need to wait until the B8.5 S4's drop a bit and/or keep an eye on S3 saloon prices, as quite like these in Sepang.
Click to expand...

I would definitely advocate test driving an S4 with the charged V6, before looking at the S3 option :)
 
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StuBill said:
I would definitely advocate test driving an S4 with the charged V6, before looking at the S3 option :)
Click to expand...

As you might expect, I second that view from @StuBill .. although very similar it terms of outright acceleration, there's a noticeable difference in power application, noise and response between the charged V6 and the turbo 4, and the usual Haldex vs Torsion argument.
 
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