170 TDI rough idle, smoke etc help needed !

[quattrodave]

My car is a 2008 BRD 170 TDI, 130k miles. I've got the usual rough running and smoke whilst warming up that seems to crop up.
The egr and manifold have been cleaned in the last 2000 miles and injectors were replaced in July 2013
When the car starts and warmed up its fine, its the bit in between that's the problem. White smoke with a touch of blue, uneven idle (almost a misfire), and terrible exhaust fumes that make your eyes water.
I took some vcds readings today and need a bit of guidance
From a cold start at 11deg coolant the injector IQ values vary from -0.5 to +0.5 with the egr cycle starting at 30%
As the car starts to warm, the IQ values are consistent until about 42 deg coolant temp when they start varying between -1.8 (cyl 1) to + 2.1 ( cyl 4) with an egr value of 85%, this is when the smoking and lumpiness start
The torsion value is +3.72 ( seems way off ?)
Anyone solved this problem ?
Could it be injectors playing up again ?
Egr problems ?
How easy is it to adjust the cam timing and is it inlet cam only ? (Belt replaced about 40 k miles ago)
No faults logged on vcds either
Any help appreciated

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Hope you don't mind but I'm commenting so I can follow your thread as I've the same issues though I don't have the knowledge to investigate in detail like you.

However it does sound remarkably the same symptoms as I have with my 2006 brd.

In a failed attempt to fix this and other general rough running issues I've
replaced both n75 's, map senser, MAF sensor, egr valve, coolant temp sensor, fuel temp sensor, fuel filter, air filter, inlet manifold actuator.

Also, anti judder checked and cleaned, had turbo checked (all fine), had terra clean and terra clean egr. The egr cooler was replaced six months prior to me getting car and timing belt only a 15k before. I found out last week my torsional value was out by 1.85 degrees which is apparently within tolerance (+/-5 deg) but Audi service manual says it should be set to zero (or so I was told). I've read before that timing can cause these issues so that was next on my list of things to get sorted.

Dpf has been checked and ok and I've had all four injectors replaced (previous owner under recall)

The only tech offering I have for you is from an audi head tech who suggested that this is caused by bore wear. At certain temps the cars brain gets confused by loss of compression and try's to compensate somehow which causes this rancid smelling smoke although he didn't give an explanation of what this compensation was

Regards
Steve

 

[quattrodave]

Thanks Steve
Its seems to be a pretty common issue, I'm hoping someone will come along with a fix for their problems
I think the first thing to address is the torsion value, anyone got some advice on adjusting this ?

 

[unitzero]

Exactly the same on my 2007 BRD currently on 149K

Injectors were changed by Audi under the recall, turbo was changed before I owned it. Recently swapped the Coolant temp sensor too but I still have the judder and smoke when warming up to temp. It's worse when sat idling on the drive or in traffic.

I've heard lots of people have been to see Avon Tuning down in Bristol and had cam timing adjusted which cured this issue. I would love to take a trip down and see if this can be fixed but haven't had the time or funds just yet.

 

[joncro]

Just been reading the same thread on pistonheads unitzero. Mine just smokes whilst warming up, no juddering or anything else...seems strange only avon tuning can sort it! Mines the BRE 140bhp, so its not only a 170bhp issue!

 

[joncro]

Plus ive only noticed it in the last few days once the weather temps dropped.

 

[unitzero]

I'm sure anyone with the tools and knowhow can adjust the cam timing values, I think Avon must have had a good few customers turn up with this issue and decided to investigate. I live round the corner from R-tech and they must have the same equipment so I might ask Nick there and see if it's possible for him to take a look at mine.

 

[quattrodave]

I'm sure anyone with the tools and knowhow can adjust the cam timing values, I think Avon must have had a good few customers turn up with this issue and decided to investigate. I live round the corner from R-tech and they must have the same equipment so I might ask Nick there and see if it's possible for him to take a look at mine.

Yes I reckon I'm capable of adjusting it, but how much to turn the inlet cam once the locknuts are slackened and in which direction?
Do you adjust the exhaust cam as well?
Any help appreciated!

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Well I hope someone can advise you quattrodave, because you'll be a busy man making all that money on the side doing weekend timing adjustments for us all

 

[SDHA4SLine]

I'm sure anyone with the tools and knowhow can adjust the cam timing values, I think Avon must have had a good few customers turn up with this issue and decided to investigate. I live round the corner from R-tech and they must have the same equipment so I might ask Nick there and see if it's possible for him to take a look at mine.

I wouldn't bother, I've just spoke to them at R-Tech they said they don't do that they only do engine tuning!

 

[quattrodave]

Well I hope someone can advise you quattrodave, because you'll be a busy man making all that money on the side doing weekend timing adjustments for us all

I'm sure it's not that easy !
I don't mind messing around with my car but I'm not sure about someone else's !

 

[desertstorm]

Is there an equivalent EGR gasket restrictor for this engine like this.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/egr-blanking-plate-2-0-tdi-any-improvements.158828/

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Desertstorm, brilliant this must be the gasket one of the audi techs spoke to me about a while back but he couldn't get the part number for me. Told me the same as on the thread, helps idle and low Rev running.

Top man, I'm off to tps tomorrow

 

[unitzero]

Let us know your findings Steve !

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Is there an equivalent EGR gasket restrictor for this engine like this.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/egr-blanking-plate-2-0-tdi-any-improvements.158828/

May be a stupid question but...
This is the gasket that is between the egr valve and egr cooler pipe yes?

 

[SDHA4SLine]

4 x gaskets on order @£3.61 each (spares just in case they are withdrawn or something) will report back when fitted to let you know if any improvements are made

 

[mm707]

These look ok, no need to remove egr to fit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-blank...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2592db1ed7

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Ok got the gaskets but which side faces the egr?

Raised side

Or recessed side?

Or does it not matter

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Well I couldn't figure out if there is right or wrong way around to fit it but it's on now and does make a difference to the cold start as in it doesn't sound horrible and feel lumpy on tick over. A quick drive round the block shows less smoke however I noticed no difference in low down performance pick up at all.

For £3.61 it's worth a try and it only takes a few minutes to fit with right tools.

 

[unitzero]

Nice work. I've ordered one of those slip on ones from the ebay link above. Hopefully I shall notice a difference too. I take it there was no warning on the dash after fitting ?

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Nope, no warning lights.

I'm holding off on giving any more feed back (mpg etc) until I get a few more miles under my belt.

 

[mm707]

Has the lumpy idle gone ? , mine is really quite lumpy when its cold, takes few turns to start too on a cold morning

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Still a bit lumpy but definitely an improvement.

Like I said £3.61 and a few minutes work is worth a try.

 

[unitzero]

Managed to get my blanking plate in (slip in one off ebay) after much wrestling and using the wrong tools (Big 8mm allen key behind and under an annoying pipe and at stupid angles!)
After buying a short reach T50 tool and struggling with that also eventually had to use mole grips as it was ****** tight ! I realised if I undid a bolt towards the front of the engine bay I could easily push the offending pipe out of the way to access the EGR cooler pipe bolt - doh !

bolt to remove ,,

I don't want to jinx it but I have also noticed a lack of lumpiness and smoke whilst warming up. Some good news at last !

The real test is to leave it sat idling on the drive and see if it turns into a smoke screen after 5 - 10 minutes like it usually does.

 

[studunc06]

Whats the latest on the egr restrictor as i am having the same issues with my 170 BRD and am about to change the fuel temp sensor?

 

[SDHA4SLine]

What issues? As said previously £3.61 and a few minutes work, it's worth a try regardless...

 

[studunc06]

Just the poor starting on the first start of the day and poor idle when cold, not really noticing any smoke though.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

may as well just give this a go, its cheap and easy

 

[studunc06]

will do, to be honest would love to have it all deleted and the dpf along with a remap but just dont have the cash

 

[studunc06]

put my restrictor in and it idles perfectly now, so something is telling the egr valve to open when its cold, could it be my coolant temp sensor i wonder? does anyone know where this lives?

 

[SDHA4SLine]

down the back of the block, its a real pain to change.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

btw as I understand it the egr is always open on idle regardless of temp?

Again as I understand it, this egr only closes when you put your foot down and when its open it helps to warm engine quicker due to recycling exhaust gasses

 

[SDHA4SLine]

I could be wrong on that but im sure what I say is correct

 

[SDHA4SLine]

unitzero just replaced his coolant temp sensor recently so he can tell you all about the fun changing it!

 

[unitzero]

I have changed it twice now !

Not fun at all and also it wasn't needed in the end haha !

You'll need thin arms and lots of patience.

I still have a slightly rough idle but nowhere near as bad as it was before the restrictor plate.

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Quattrodave have you had any luck yet? Had my turbo changed today but no change on smoking side of things. It's puffing blue smoke really bad under load, so much so that it's embarrassing now. Want this fixed but only thing (that's been suggested) left to try is new cylinder head which is a huge price to pay unless I know it's really gonna fix the issue.

 

[csm]

Trade the ****** in, save the hassle

 

[SDHA4SLine]

Trade the ****** in, save the hassle

Hahaha, no way I'm passed the point of no return now

 

[quattrodave]

Quattrodave have you had any luck yet? Had my turbo changed today but no change on smoking side of things. It's puffing blue smoke really bad under load, so much so that it's embarrassing now. Want this fixed but only thing (that's been suggested) left to try is new cylinder head which is a huge price to pay unless I know it's really gonna fix the issue.

The only thing I've done is to run the car on Shell Vpower with a shot of Millers additive (overkill maybe !)
The result is no smoke when warming up - at all !
I've still got the rough idle but that'll do me for the moment

 

[SDHA4SLine]

I've always ran shell v power in mine so assume I can rule this one out