Little bit of wmi advice please

S3 Hilife

S3 Hilife

It's an addiction
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Hi there people

I'm just looking for some advice on wmi, i've been debating this for a while now and done some research on the subject but unsure of a couple of things.
I'm planning on doing this install soon before my next software upgrade.
I think I will probably go with Devils Own but unsure whether to go progressive or fixed rate, washer bottle res or boot res also unsure to go with throttle body mount or silicone hose mount for nozzle, nozzle type, solenoid or no solenoid, mixture etc, etc.

Thanks, any info you guys have will be appreciated

Steve
 
I used to run the devils own 3 bar progressive kit pre throttle body from the washer tank on my MPS.
The only issue with that is you have to re-edit the fuelling when you change the settings.
It was fine for me as I did my own tuning but could be a ball ache if you have to keep going back somewhere. If that was the case I would have run fixed spray.
 
You can make more power running 100% meth but anything over 50/50 mix becomes highly flammable. Explain that one away to the insurance if anything goes wrong!!
I picked up 30 bhp running 50/50 with some tuning changes
 
Thanks, great info.
did your engine temps effect the effectiveness of the mixture?

I bet there's no insurance company in their right mind that would cover wmi, has anybody had any quotes for it
 
The boost temps plummet to just a few degrees above ambient so run higher ignition timing. it is awesome stuff for turbo applications. You can run pre-turbo to improve the turbo efficiency and run much higher boost (although there is debate about turbo longevity), it also keeps the intake valves clean on direct injection engines.

Engine temps will have no bearing on the mixture, once mixed it does not separate.

If you do decide to run 100% then use a boot res as the meth will start to perish the rubbers on your windscreen.

The devils own pumps can be a bit temperamental, the aqua-most set ups are more reliable (and expensive). If the pump fails and you're tuned for meth then expect bad things to happen. I have no experience with these ECU's but I had a failsafe in place where it would slash ignition timing if the boost temps reached a certain point (which was set higher than you could reach on meth but easy to do without)

You can use a one way valve instead of a solenoid but put it as close to the nozzle as you can....that's all I can think off, just finished a 13 hour nightshift!!
 
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skiptowncat said:
You can make more power running 100% meth but anything over 50/50 mix becomes highly flammable. Explain that one away to the insurance if anything goes wrong!!
I picked up 30 bhp running 50/50 with some tuning changes
Click to expand...

actually anything over 30% wmi mix can ignite from ign source

install stuff properly and respect it (no different to petrol which you also happily put in your car weekly!) and its fine
 
skiptowncat said:
The boost temps plummet to just a few degrees above ambient so run higher ignition timing. it is awesome stuff for turbo applications. You can run pre-turbo to improve the turbo efficiency and run much higher boost (although there is debate about turbo longevity), it also keeps the intake valves clean on direct injection engines.

Engine temps will have no bearing on the mixture, once mixed it does not separate.

If you do decide to run 100% then use a boot res as the meth will start to perish the rubbers on your windscreen.

The devils own pumps can be a bit temperamental, the aqua-most set ups are more reliable (and expensive). If the pump fails and you're tuned for meth then expect bad things to happen. I have no experience with these ECU's but I had a failsafe in place where it would slash ignition timing if the boost temps reached a certain point (which was set higher than you could reach on meth but easy to do without)

You can use a one way valve instead of a solenoid but put it as close to the nozzle as you can....that's all I can think off, just finished a 13 hour nightshift!!
Click to expand...


The aquamist pumps I've seen are the same Sureflow pumps every one seems to use. Snow, Devils, Coolingmist,AEM etc
the old Aquamist ones 10 years ago were unreliable. I know mine seized and I dumped the system and got a Snow which works to this day perfectly.

The manufacturers will all say no more than 50% mix recommended.

and for info, VAG Screenwash concentrate is "up to 49% meth" as supplied. Maybe thats so they can sell us new wiper blades a lot, lol
 
badger5 said:
and for info, VAG Screenwash concentrate is "up to 49% meth" as supplied. Maybe thats so they can sell us new wiper blades a lot, lol
Click to expand...

Lol, that sounds about right

I'm looking forward to doing this but wana make sure it is safe from a "not killing the engine" perspective aswell as the obvious flamibility risk whilst trying to keep it as stealthy as possible.

Steve
 
crazyhilife said:
Lol, that sounds about right

I'm looking forward to doing this but wana make sure it is safe from a "not killing the engine" perspective aswell as the obvious flamibility risk whilst trying to keep it as stealthy as possible.

Steve
Click to expand...

the flammability "scare" which some folks seem to suffer makes me smile.
Do you worry when you fill up your car with petrol? ;)

If Devils Own is chosen a D03 nozzle is a good place to start size wise if mounting post intercooler, pre throttle body
Beware of the insert into silicon hose type holder shrouding the nozzles spray cone. Those I have seen from DO dont work well, and the spray will hit the edges of the insert causing a dribble not nice fine mist. I weld and drill/tap a boss on the the ally pipework for the nozzles so the nozzle is close to being flush with the pipes ID.

If choosing post throttle body install, remember the check valve will not stop the meth being sucked out under vacuum. You will need to use an isolation solenoid close to the nozzle port to only allow wmi to pass when triggered.
 
Thanks Bill, i'm going to draw up a list of parts needed and go with post throttle body nozzle and solenoid (i think).
I've got 0 experience with wmi so it might be a bit of trial and error to get it set up right. Where's the best place to mount the pump if using washer bottle and keep it hidden (if thats possible)
Thanks

Steve
 
badger5 said:
the flammability "scare" which some folks seem to suffer makes me smile.
Do you worry when you fill up your car with petrol? ;)

If Devils Own is chosen a D03 nozzle is a good place to start size wise if mounting post intercooler, pre throttle body
Beware of the insert into silicon hose type holder shrouding the nozzles spray cone. Those I have seen from DO dont work well, and the spray will hit the edges of the insert causing a dribble not nice fine mist. I weld and drill/tap a boss on the the ally pipework for the nozzles so the nozzle is close to being flush with the pipes ID.

If choosing post throttle body install, remember the check valve will not stop the meth being sucked out under vacuum. You will need to use an isolation solenoid close to the nozzle port to only allow wmi to pass when triggered.
Click to expand...

That was the old DO nozzles, the new ones have no dribble issues.

I agree snow performance are the best ones to get, but I don't agree about the check valve...there is no way you will pull enough vac to open it.

All manufacturers recommend no more than 50/50 because of the combustibility risk. Trust me, over 50/50 will make more power but I don't think the risk outweighs the benefits

I was running a do10 on a 2.3 turbo, I know some folk who have it plumbed into each intake mani runner 4xdo2...there are lots of ways to do this.

For a simple setup just get a fixed spray pre-throttle body and a map tweak.
 
skiptowncat said:
That was the old DO nozzles, the new ones have no dribble issues.

I agree snow performance are the best ones to get, but I don't agree about the check valve...there is no way you will pull enough vac to open it.

All manufacturers recommend no more than 50/50 because of the combustibility risk. Trust me, over 50/50 will make more power but I don't think the risk outweighs the benefits
Click to expand...

Sorry but I dont agree. DO check valve does not stop vacuum pulling it through. It did'nt on the lupo's original install.
and the combustability 50/50 notion is'nt accurate either if that was the 50/50 cap advisory.. 30% and below does'nt ignite 40% and above will ignite. I tested the % mixes several years ago to quantify the cut off point.

It was NOT the nozzles which dribbled but the inserts into silicon pipes Holders which caused the issue.
 
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crazyhilife said:
Thanks Bill, i'm going to draw up a list of parts needed and go with post throttle body nozzle and solenoid (i think).
I've got 0 experience with wmi so it might be a bit of trial and error to get it set up right. Where's the best place to mount the pump if using washer bottle and keep it hidden (if thats possible)
Thanks

Steve
Click to expand...
mount pump below tank to ensure it will suck. They say they can draw up hill, they cant.
Remember if mounting externally these are not water proof pumps and water ingress will kill the pump by corrosion. Protect it by whatever means you can from the road grime and prospective salt spray over winter. DO sell a pump boot which is a start for its protection.
 
Thanks everyone for all your help, i've still not ordered the kit yet as I want to make sure I get the correct kit and bits.
I would like to mount the pump behind the bumper out of the way and just below the washer tank maybe where the original IC used to be unless anyone knows of any potential problem this might have

Steve
 
Hello, im also thinking of installing wmi on mtm tuned s3 i have bought a AEM kit with progressive controler but not sure where to purchase a solonoid from as would be mounting after tb with sandwich plate. Also has anyone had good gains without tuning for the meth as have been told my map is blocked so carnt tune any further without starting from scratch.
 
matty82 said:
Hello, im also thinking of installing wmi on mtm tuned s3 i have bought a AEM kit with progressive controler but not sure where to purchase a solonoid from as would be mounting after tb with sandwich plate.
Click to expand...

Hi mate, i've just bought the Devils progressive kit and i'm also mounting post TB, I didn't see a solenoid on the AEM website although i'm sure they will probably make one but here's a link to the Devils Own solenoid:
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=41

I cant see why this wouldn't work with the AEM kit if the pipework is the same size but then again I've never used these kits before.

Steve
 
Does the solenoid need a relay to opperate correctly or is it wired from the output of the controller so it opperates in sync with the pump? (Or both)

Sorry for all the questions, I haven't seen the wiring diagrams yet

Thanks
Steve
 
Ive just dug my aem kit wiring diagram out and i carnt see a output for solonoid so i presume we would have to take a out put from the power to the pump as you say. I reckon a relay might be needed if piggy backing off pump power.
crazyhilife said:
Does the solenoid need a relay to opperate correctly or is it wired from the output of the controller so it opperates in sync with the pump? (Or both)

Sorry for all the questions, I haven't seen the wiring diagrams yet

Thanks
Steve
Click to expand...
 
Did you manage to find an AEM solenoid or are you going for the Devils one?

I havent received my kit yet so hopefully next couple of days I can have a proper look

Let us know how you get on with yours

Steve
 
matty82 said:
Hello, im also thinking of installing wmi on mtm tuned s3 i have bought a AEM kit with progressive controler but not sure where to purchase a solonoid from as would be mounting after tb with sandwich plate. Also has anyone had good gains without tuning for the meth as have been told my map is blocked so carnt tune any further without starting from scratch.
Click to expand...
map blocked?
AEM kit I dont think has output for solenoid?
 
matty82 said:
Ive just dug my aem kit wiring diagram out and i carnt see a output for solonoid so i presume we would have to take a out put from the power to the pump as you say. I reckon a relay might be needed if piggy backing off pump power.
Click to expand...

if progressive controller tho, the pump wont be 12v on off, it will be pwm controller for its "progressive" control would'nt it?
 
Sorry Bill that was supposed to be more of a question than a statement, I mean surely there should be a switch on the aem controller that can be used for a solenoid, after all they do make a solenoid for their wmi kit.

Steve
 
I'm still waiting nervously for the insurance Co. to call to find out how much extra I will pay for my wmi, hope they're lenient lol. What extra extortion rate would you generally expect to pay? (This will be a new policy)

Also want to order a 4 quart tank but there's nowhere to put the damn thing in the bay.

I'm looking forward to seeing what difference this will make, will defo have to do some before and after logs
 
audi upgrades
Well I can't believe this, I was getting the bits ready to start the install when I realised there are no nozzles in any of the packets.
This is the "mechanical bag" where they are supposed to be, or am I just being dumb (more likely, lol)

df8b78b24f8d380655c1c83a4858dacf.jpg


Steve
 
There wouldn't be nozzles no, only holders. Because you buy the correct rate nozzles to suit your application.

Odd that they're listed in the contents though. But with no sizes or rates. :/
 
16Klappe said:
There wouldn't be nozzles no, only holders. Because you buy the correct rate nozzles to suit your application.

Odd that they're listed in the contents though. But with no sizes or rates. :/
Click to expand...


It actually shows the nozzles as part of the kit in the pictures. Having 95% of a kit which is useless without these parts is not exactly a kit imo. This was purchased from ebay, new and I emailed the seller (who is a charity organisation btw) and they said they would refund £50 to purchase the nozzles but I wouldn't feel right doing that being its a childrens charity and these kits were part of a donation.
Jardo, did you have to buy these seperate when you did yours?

Steve
 
I didn't fit mine, and whoever did wasn't exactly an expert.

Speak to Bruce Morris from Devils Own, tell him I sent you.
 
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Well spoke to Bruce at Devils Own who said it looks like the nozzles appear to have been left out from manufacture in USA (D03 & D07) and I would need to ask them to send one over (Hmmm how long would that take) so I agreed to buy one but then found out they have run out of solenoids and wont have any for another 2 weeks (typical or what)

Anyway he advised me to use a silicone mounting adaptor to fit on the TB inlet hose and forget about the solenoid, I've just ordered one but I've heared bad things about those fittings and I didn't want to rely solely on a check valve and have no safety backup in the form of a solenoid either. Has anyone had a bad experience with the silicone adaptors?

Well, I'll see what happens when its all on :)
 
Last edited:
not seen their current in pipe holders but the previous ones were too deep and interfered with the nozzles spray
 
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Just a quick one, has anyone run Devils brew or there own 50/50 mix in the washer bottle? Have tried searching but couldn't find anything on it. Thanks.

Tom
 
So I might as well use quantum then? Cheers
 
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