Emmisions update

Nath94

Nath94

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Hi guys, recently had the emmisions update done on my car an then 2 weeks later... EGR valve had failed on me. £700 later an cars running good but been reading on other sites that a lot of people are having the same issues after the update, some even with failed turbos, injectors and DPF's...

I was wondering is the update can be reveresed? Cause From reading other sources more problems are heading my way because of the update.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
I think the only way now is a third party remap, like REVO or similar.
 
@Cornish John ive been told elsewhere that apparently a normal remap would not do the job as a remap does not go as deep into the ECU's brain as what Audi have gone with the update... I mean this may completely wrong info I have been given as I don't know what's what with mapping etc etc
 
The egr's quality wasn't all that anyway , so exellerated wear through being asked by the ecu by the so called fix to be operational much more often .

I would go back and ask for your £700 back as it's widely publicsised that the egr fails a few hundred miles after the update .

Dealers are actually caving in and footing the big rather than going through a lengthy complaints procedure whilst still denying there's any link .

Some dealers are running out of egr's and they are on back order stranding the owners car at the stealer's .
 
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Is it possible, if asked the main dealers would/will put the original map back on?
I don't know the answer, but what I do know is; my A3 is not getting the update!
 
They won't put the original map back on , it's what makes this debacle worse.

If a remapping company remaps your car and you don't like it for some strange reason , within x amount of time they'll return it to stock .
 
The only thing that bothers me is if I get a remap and then the remap itself puts more strain on the new EGR and the dpf along with the update then I could be causing more damage by getting the remap...

Also @Cornish John I got the EGR replaced at an Audi specialist as Audi wasn't returning my calls and needed my car asap for work so I don't think I'll get a refund
 
Either get a remapping agent / company to put a standard file back on or go Stage 1 with the egr out .

You have a dpf in the first place because the egr's effect causes incomplete combustion thus fuel molecules become soot .
 
I wish I knew this last week haha cause I spent £711 getting the EGR replaced last week :(
 
The fault was EGR valve circuit malfunction, the whole assembly
 
I've currently had a crazy week this week complaining to Audi Warrington, and I have won my case with the backing of Audi UK which I am very happy with.

6 months ago when I took my car in for a full service, I opted out of the emissions SW update (23Q7) due to negative feedback regarding the update from friends and official Audi forum reading. Also it is not mandatory to have it done. My car was perfectly fine as it was.

I signed a document on my service records (That Audi Warrington made me sign), and I have the invoice stating that “I (the customer) do not want 23Q7 carried out on my car”.

Last week I took it in for its MOT and when I collected it I was then told that they have carried out the 23Q7 SW update for the emissions.

I was fuming as then I was told it can not be reversed.

Over a couple of days driving to work which is a 70mile round trip per day, I noticed a change. On my normal journey I am always used to seeing an average MPG of 46-48MPG each way on to dash computer. Already I’ve noticed it’s doing 40-42MPG taking it easy. Also on the motorway the car feels slightly flatter in 6th gear.

My argument was... If they can't return it to what it was, then I want it better than what it is.

The fact that I'd signed a document to not have it carried out on my car and it was done against my will, made me bullet proof.

Audi Warrington have now booked me into Awesome GTi on the 18th of May for a stage 1 APR remap at their cost. Also Hassan at Awesome GTi states that their APR remap overwrites the 23Q7 emissions update as they have been doing alot of development including before and after runs on the RR due to customers coming to them after the update has been actioned.

Winner :)
 
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@col004 so... I wonder if that's Audi's way of saying that a remap is a fix for the emissions update, like a software reverse.
Hmm... I debating whether to have a remap done all the companies I have spoke to have said that they're not sure if the remap will reverse the updated software that Audi have put on
 
Such Audi incompetence .

Winner , winner , chicken dinner , it'll be better than ever alright .

Egr out of the software ?
 
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Nath... Going of the conversations I've had this week with Audi. They only have answers for their own SW loads, And that they can’t reverse it.
I’m guessing if I hadn't of signed out of it and didn’t have the paperwork to back me up, they probably would of f%%ked me off :(
Due to my statement… “If they can't return it to what it was, then I want it better than what it is”, They have had to seek advice and go external to tuning companies.
Luckily Awesome GTi are round the corner, and are one of the best in the UK with VAG.


I'm unsure Gaz, I'm just leaving it to Awesome GTi. I think a stage 1 keeps the EGR mate. Not sure. The cars only done 36k. It’s still a baby for a diesel.
 
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@Gazwould what are the benefits of having the EGR out? I spoke to a company that removes EGR's as a business an he said that it causes the dpf to regenerate more often which in turn decreases the life of the dpf
 
@Nath94

Yes that is true. If you are removing the EGR then it's best to go full DPF deletion as well.

I'm not bothering with all that. I'm only having the remap due to Audi's ****-up.

If they'd of paid more attention to their data base and not loaded it, I'd of never bothered with a remap.

Awesome GTi assures me the car will be spot on with their APR stage 1 remap as the car is :)
 
Nath94 said:
@Gazwould what are the benefits of having the EGR out? I spoke to a company that removes EGR's as a business an he said that it causes the dpf to regenerate more often which in turn decreases the life of the dpf
Click to expand...

I would ask for more detail why he thinks this would happen .

Egr out / disable / blank / delete, Benefits are ;

More power and mpg .

Less soot out of the exhaust for non dpf cars .

Less abrasive soot entering the engine oil so oil stays cleaner for longer.

Exhaust gasses are used to drive the turbo when the egr is operational ( never at full throttle ) so low to mid , it robs the turbo of spool , so you get this lag , flat spot and can't change up till further into the rev range .
The vehicle is less drivable and can kangaroo with low speed high gear situations .

The egr is all about NOx and NOx is produced in more abundance at above 2500°C during combustion . To lower the combustion temps below 2500 the combustion must become less oxygenated by reintroducing inert unburnable exhaust gasses , but these gasses both contain soot and produce more soot because of the greater amount of unburnt fuel molecules due to less oxygen , which is delt with by the dpf .

As observed by owners who were unfortunate or stupid enough to have the emissions so called update software fix they have found more dpf regenerations , because of the egr was programmed to be more frequently operational to reduce NOx thus producing more soot .

So I'm confused as to why with egr out of the software you would get more dpf regens as there is less soot produced with good oxygenated combustion .
 
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@Gazwould havent got a clue buddy... I'm know expert by far but all I'm saying is that the bloke who runs the business told me this that's why I opted for a replacement instead of a delete... I'm not sure what path to go down as a preventative measure for future problems due to the update
 
I'm no expert either , but soot is unburnt fuel and more soot is definitely produced with keeping an operational egr .

It's an evil for your engine , a vehicle should only breathe clean cold filtered air .

 
Definitely looking like a closed egr will premote more efficient oxygenated combustion producing less soot thus give less work for the dpf so less regens .

Not to mention less engine wear from less soot and fuel entering and spoiling the engine oil .
 
"Please Note:
The EGR Valve should NOT be removed on vehicles that still have the DPF Filter in place, doing so may block the DPF as the EGR Valve operation is a prerequisite for DPF Regeneration."


Isn't this a matter of software adjustment rather than a phisical need for egr to work .

A dpf regeneration is requested by pressure sensors in the dpf sensing the dpf is getting loaded up with soot ( back pressure ) , there is no logical reason why this can't continue in the absence of egr .

There are lots of remapping companies offering egr out and keeping dpf , people with mechanical engineering degrees .
 
Lol , I've cracked it .

Now that particular and unique company Darkside Developments when remapping like to dump more than the norm fuel in resulting in horrendous undesirable clutch shagging torque spikes evident in their dyno charts .

I bet their remapped cars don't pump out a light haze without a dpf .

Their fuel to air ratio would be too fuel rich and exit as partly burnt fuel - SOOT that will overcapacitate a dpf , so it's easier to make up things and also delete the dpf .
 
In fairness... like I've said above. I wouldn't of even considered a remap if I wasn't in the situation I'm in.

I'm no mapper and will never pretend to be one. My track car gets mapped by professionals and I leave them to it.

Tuning a diesel that gets me to work and back would be a waste of money for me buddy.

As for "dark side". I've never heard of them before. It was just a quick google search to use as an example as it does back up what Nath said and what I've been told by who I'm dealing with.

I'm an aircraft avionic systems engineer. Im certainly not in a position to argue a subject I'm not qualified in. I wouldn't expect someone to try to tell me how to do my job.

I agree... there's loads of companies out there that would destroy a car with **** maps and **** advice, but there are some out there that know what they're talking about. Awesome GTi have not advised this to me, nor have they said that the EGR will cause detrimental issues to my car as a daily driver.

I agree, You do have your points... and I understand the above with what you have posted.

If you're tuning the car for fun fast road use, then yes, Pull it all out, and including the DPF.

But then again... I'd tune a petrol if I wanted that type of car.
 
What I don't understand is, why Audi cant put the original software in, I mean a big company like Audi must have it knocking around.
The boffins they must have in car development must know how to go back to original, just don't understand it!!
 
They can't put it back for legal reasons.

Technically the software was "illegal" hence why they got done in the first place.

When they carry our the 23Q7 update it pings to the headquarters and updates the data base on your chassis number.

It will not let them reverse it.

They probably do have the file. They're just not allowed to reload it for legal reasons.
 
I would say after signing a document, to which Audi asked you to sign, stating you did not want the 23Q7 update would have a good legal case against Audi UK and could demand its reverted back to stock.
You did not want the 23Q7 update or a remap.

I would, at a minimum, consulting legal advice.
 
I have sat down and wheyed this up.

I get what your saying. But I very much doubt it would ever be reversed as it cannot be due to other legal reasons once it's been done.

If I pushed and pushed this legally, The out come would be as it is now and maybe abit of competition for future services etc.

I've had the car 2 and a half years now. It probably will be going in 6 to 12 month for a new A5. So battling that out regardless of probably winning the case and getting a bit more than I have now out off it. It would take months and months if I went the legal route.

The remap will be done, enjoyed, and sold :)
 
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Nath94 said:
Hi guys, recently had the emmisions update done on my car an then 2 weeks later... EGR valve had failed on me. £700
Click to expand...

Am I missing something ? £700 !??

An egr valve would cost around £200- £250 ... even at Audi labour rates £700 sounds exsessive..
 
That's cheap , I've heard quotes of £1300 .

Mind you at the stealer's vat is 60 % .
 
@enc Audi quoted me £1200, I went to 3 other places which quote me around £700, cause it was the whole assembly with the cooler aswell... not just the valve
 
With renewed regards to remapping with egr out and keeping the dpf being bad for the dpf is correct as highlighted by col004 earlier .

Egr seems to be used during passive regeneration to help regulate the DPF temperature .

Many older vehicles can be absolutely fine to remove it , some might be ok, and others give various regeneration errors .

Obviously depends on driving style too.
 
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I just want to know if the update can be reversed to old software aha! I wish I never had it done!
 
I had an engine management light for a while after the update which I took to get diagnosed (independently) and it turned out to be the EGR which I got deleted and the car feels so much smoother now and I think the power band feels better.
 
Do you have a dpf ?

As discussed earlier deleting egr and keeping dpf is unwise as egr is a prerequisite of dpf regeneration .

At first I didn't understand as egr open causes more soot and less temperature and dpf needs high temps , sure there is an initial request from the ecu to close the egr but during the cycle the egr is used to regulate the temperature / pressure of dpf regeneration .
 
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