superkarls overhaul

superkarl · Jan 21, 2015

My dad has just text me with what could be a great idea.
I have some polyurethane resin left over from my engine mounts, what about using that to install them?

If i get Issam to make me new ones, im guessing il need to send these back to Canada, thats at least £30 in shipping. And a bit of a wait.
I know i shouldnt have to do this for something that should just fit righht off the bat but, it seems the simplest solution.

craigt1985 · Jan 21, 2015

Seems ridiculous that anyone should expect you to pay again to resolve an issue with a defective product. Green loctite is a laughable solution, how could any company with any engineering know how think that that is a suitable proposal

superkarl · Jan 21, 2015

craigt1985 said:
Seems ridiculous that anyone should expect you to pay again to resolve an issue with a defective product. Green loctite is a laughable solution, how could any company with any engineering know how think that that is a suitable proposal

Bad isnt it

ScottD3 · Jan 21, 2015

I could make you some mate soon as I get my new tools and some aluminium block.

daz-20vt · Jan 21, 2015

no brainer then bud!
get them right that play looks scary!lol

badger5 · Jan 21, 2015

superkarl said:
To update,
034 have said subframes vary massively, and that I should smear with green Loctite and bolt them in and they will be fine.
With 1mm play all around, im not so confident.
Another option is Issam has offered to turn me a custom set to measurements I provide.

What do people think?

lol

S3Alex · Jan 21, 2015

superkarl said:
To update,
034 have said subframes vary massively, and that I should smear with green Loctite and bolt them in and they will be fine.
With 1mm play all around, im not so confident.
Another option is Issam has offered to turn me a custom set to measurements I provide.

What do people think?

Brilliant engineering solution.

"cover it in glue,slap it in,and it'll be fine......but of course I'm not driving your car"

If you stick with him,I think the custom set is the ONLY proper solution,and begs the question why one might be selling a product,knowing there's such a variation in diameters,but not mentioning the likely outcome.

superkarl · Jan 21, 2015

Agreed. Ive mentioned that my only realistic solution is to have a set made for my measurements.
Is this all really worth the hassle and £100. I think id rather have a refund

craigt1985 · Jan 21, 2015

superkarl said:
My dad has just text me with what could be a great idea.
I have some polyurethane resin left over from my engine mounts, what about using that to install them?

If i get Issam to make me new ones, im guessing il need to send these back to Canada, thats at least £30 in shipping. And a bit of a wait.
I know i shouldnt have to do this for something that should just fit righht off the bat but, it seems the simplest solution.

I wouldn't think about the poly! I'd just get them sorted properly.

Surely if the dimensions are that far off then they're no use to man nor beast? I've had it before with cheap chinese bike bits that break, rather than send them back; as they're unusable a photo of the offending item in a chopped up state should suffice? Or are they intending to use them as paperweights to hold down all their returns paperwork?!

If he won't machine a set up for free and expects you to post them back at great cost, it might be worth enquiring to see how much it would cost to get them turned down and a brass ring of the correct OD freeze fitted in place?

superkarl · Jan 21, 2015

craigt1985 said:
I wouldn't think about the poly! I'd just get them sorted properly.

Surely if the dimensions are that far off then they're no use to man nor beast? I've had it before with cheap chinese bike bits that break, rather than send them back; as they're unusable a photo of the offending item in a chopped up state should suffice? Or are they intending to use them as paperweights to hold down all their returns paperwork?!

If he won't machine a set up for free and expects you to post them back at great cost, it might be worth enquiring to see how much it would cost to get them turned down and a brass ring of the correct OD freeze fitted in place?

They provided measurements of the ones they have in stock and they are exactly the same as mine. 47.5mm diameter. Its crazy to think there would be such variation across oem subframes.
Im providing measurements to have some made. Its about as good as this gets tbh. I think the brass shim idea would prob cost a fair bit more.

badger5 · Jan 22, 2015

same as rear beam bushes - variance and also roundness varies a lot.. Its just a fabricated assembly at the end of the day. There's a reason manufacturers choose materials which either have plastic outer shells and/or rubber bushes - compliance required to fit stuff together.

Sadly its how it is

superkarl · Jan 23, 2015

Another update
Here is the measurement i took of the bushes:

here is the measurement 034 took:

My measurements of the subframe are:
47.69mm
47.71mm
And the bushes with the same calipers:
47.61mm

So a clearance of 0.1 and 0.08mm isnt too shabby at all, and id be happy to use loctite or polyurethane to take up that slack.
I think the issue is depth:

as its no where near this diagram:

So i've raised this with issam and 034 to see if they record the same.

Alex C · Jan 23, 2015

that's what I reckon the issue is, it's not fully sitting in the recess. It looks like who ever machined them got their step heights mixed up as @Scullies suggested earlier

ScottD3 · Jan 23, 2015

FWD and haldex bushes the same?

craigt1985 · Jan 23, 2015

Those tolerances seem much more realistic! Hopefully they'll come back with something much more positive and say they're at fault. Really doesn't seem right.

superkarl · Jan 23, 2015

ScottD3 said:
FWD and haldex bushes the same?

no theyre different, or at least they sell them as different items, different part numbers. But they measure the same diameter as 034 sent me those measurements too.
I hope the depth is wrong, so then it will be a simple exchange and fit and forget.

Sam_ · Jan 26, 2015

I know it doesn't help you but here's some measurements of the tyrolsport ones I've got fitted:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n2itsxd191h7zmw/OB_c-ncKuC#/

I didn't fit them though. I had them done when I took it in for a load of suspension work I couldn't do at home but they didn't mention anything about them being a pain.

Sam_ · Jan 26, 2015

Also, pretty sure I made that diagram with the measurements on it for Stacey. I'm not the best with the verniers so there's probably -/+ .1mm or .2mm there.

superkarl · Mar 26, 2015

Few cool things happening before its on the road. Firstly these:

More details on those when I have all the parts.

Even more cool is this:

Very handy gadget.

Also decided to get the wheels refurbed before I fit these:

As they are very scruffy and the body isn't in the best shape so I can at least make an effort with the wheels.

Oh the subframe bushes, last I heard 034 were going to talk to there engineers about what's wrong with them. I know what's wrong with them, they're not deep enough to actually fit the subframe. But as they say 'it's easy for me to conclude that with both parts in front of me' whatever that means.

Prawn · Mar 26, 2015

Good call on the tyres!

proper man size too! I like.

Brakes will be interesting. Not seen them on an 8L before

Jay A3 · Mar 26, 2015

What size discs on the rs calipers again?

superkarl · Mar 29, 2015

334mm r32 discs:

F**k me they are heavy. Good job the calipers weigh so little, incredibly light.
Quick mock up says they fit in the wheels:

But, sat like that they did ever so slightly hit the inside of the spokes closest to the hub of the wheel. This was no surprise given how fat the calipers are, I underestimated it, and 32mm discs, that extra 4mm just seems so much.
But once it's bolted together with adapters and pads I'm hoping il have a little clearance, but we'll see, nothing that cannot be solved

Sam_ · Apr 1, 2015

Using the Epytec adapters? I think if I was doing brakes again, I'd be getting those too.

superkarl · Apr 1, 2015

Sam_ said:
Using the Epytec adapters? I think if I was doing brakes again, I'd be getting those too.

Indeed and it's thanks to you I know they exist

Dani_B19 · Apr 1, 2015

Ooh like the look of the brake setup pal. Thought about 2 piece discs to reduce the weight? Who you using for the brake lines mate?

Side note, you seen that powerflex have started doing rear subframe and diff bushes?

superkarl · Apr 1, 2015

Dani_B19 said:
Ooh like the look of the brake setup pal. Thought about 2 piece discs to reduce the weight? Who you using for the brake lines mate?

Side note, you seen that powerflex have started doing rear subframe and diff bushes?

2 piece discs are only 15% lighter, not worth the cost imo. Custom brake lines from a company called DAG hoses, HEL maker/dealer.

Yeh I saw your post about it, it's interesting, might be a project for later in the year

superkarl · May 10, 2015

RS3 brake install

The 'kit':

1x pair of RS3 calipers
1x pair of mk4 R32 334mm discs (in my case ebc)
1x pair of brake pads (ebc red stuff, Evo X shares same caliper/pads)
1x set of epytec adapters
1x set of custom HEL hoses from DAGhosesupplies
And peanut the bulldog

Firstly I will confirm that the pistons are 44/40mm

The R32 discs measure 70mm depth:

The inside and outside of the discs are chamfered so this is not very accurate, actual surface depth is prob more like 65/66mm

Whilst the RS3 pads measure 60mm depth:

This results in a very minimal unswept area:

Now onto the adapters. They're great quality:

Compared to the stock rs3 calipers designed for a 370mm disc:

Unfortunately the bolts supplied are only half threaded so don't fit into the calipers, I had to reuse the stock carrier bolts:

Adapters all fitted:

Fit pads, grease the pins:

Comparison shot with S3 brakes:

Don't be fooled, whilst the diameter increase isn't all that much, 312 vs 334, the new discs are 32mm wide compared to 28, and this makes them incredibly heavy!

Now onto the car

Fit the lines (I fit them into the caliper and quickly swap the lines from oem to new)

Fit the discs and they look like this: (******* awesome)

Now, do they fit in the wheels?
My wheels are 17x8 et35:

DOH

5mm Spacers required (now effectively an offset of et30):

And longer bolts:

The result:

Wahoo!
The result with freshly powder coated wheels fitted with 235/45R17 federal 595rsr:

Job done:

Figured this might be useful for the brake thread, so feel free mods to rip this post from here.

Special thanks goes out to my dad, Paul aka crazy88, Tilling wheel refurbs and DAGhosesupplies for a great service.

Jay A3 · May 10, 2015

Awesome stuff Karl. Looks great and glad to hear they fit. What lines did you use s3 connection one end and rs3 on the other I guess? and test drove them yet?

S3AMJ · May 10, 2015

That's a brilliant mod! Just looked at the prices, pretty affordable. Something id consider doing myself one day.

superkarl · May 10, 2015

Jay A3 said:
Awesome stuff Karl. Looks great and glad to hear they fit. What lines did you use s3 connection one end and rs3 on the other I guess? and test drove them yet?

Yeh that's exactly right, I basically told DAG what brakes they were and what they were going on and that's that.
Not driven them yet no, I'm low on brake fluid so got another litre of super blue coming to bleed these feckers and totally flush the system

superkarl · May 10, 2015

S3AMJ said:
That's a brilliant mod! Just looked at the prices, pretty affordable. Something id consider doing myself one day.

Thanks. Yeh there are definitely cheaper setups to be had, but with a bit of bargain hunting I don't think this setup can be beaten in terms of OEM+, which is exactly why I wanted them.
Obv actual performance I'm yet to report, but that will be interesting given the piston sizes and the controversy surrounding setups like cayenne 17/18z setups.

MIGGZ · May 10, 2015

Awesome work and setup dude, little upset you failed to give a shoutout to the dog in the 1st pic

superkarl · May 10, 2015

MIGGZ said:
Awesome work and setup dude, little upset you failed to give a shoutout to the dog in the 1st pic

That's peanut! I gave him a holla, look closer

MIGGZ · May 10, 2015

Good save hahahahah

jojo · May 10, 2015

Super!

Sam_ · May 10, 2015

superkarl said:
that will be interesting given the piston sizes and the controversy surrounding setups like cayenne 17/18z setups.

You won't be far off the same feel I have given those piston sizes

18Z - 30/34/38mm
706.86mm2
907.92mm2
1134.11mm2
Total 2748.89mm2

TTRS - 40/44mm
1256.64mm2
1520.53mm2
Total 2777.17mm2 (~1% larger)

I find the feel great but agree on paper it doesn't look good. Thankfully in reality it's better feel than the OEM.

Sam_ · May 10, 2015

Be thankful you don't have the 17Z (which is why the calipers get a bad rep I think)

17Z - 34/36/38mm
907.92
1017.88
1134.11
3059.91mm2 (10.7086% larger than 18Z, 9.6877% larger than TTRS)

Erikn89nl · May 11, 2015

@Prawn @superkarl
Theoretically, how would these match up to LCR Brembo's?

superkarl · May 11, 2015

Erikn89nl said:
@Prawn @superkarl
Theoretically, how would these match up to LCR Brembo's?

well given the piston areas, these will have longer travel.
But, pad for pad, should offer greater stopping power i would imagine given the size increase in caliper, diameter and width.

Its worth noting im not using ferrodo DS2500/3000 like a lot of people run on LCRs. Those pads are an absolute fortune for these calipers. I based my pad decision on RS3 owner reviews and EVO X owner reviews though so they should be decent.

MIGGZ · May 11, 2015

never used the red but for road i use yellow and track blue and really happy ebc

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