my k04 hybrid mapping at badger5

daz-20vt

daz-20vt

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hi guys
just thought id fill you guys in on my experience at badger5 on friday mapping my k04 hybrid
id love for people to take the time to read this as its an unbias and honest review

turned up 9.30 and the car was pulled straight in,
bills young helper nathan kindly made everyone a coffee and soon after put the smoke tester on the s3!
to my surprise my car passed with flying colours!! i was well chuffed!
sadly at this point this is where my good luck ended! :(

Bill then goes to upload a base map to my ECU and i hear in the background "its encrypted"
i had the car mapped by viezu tuning years ago who said the same thing, however they did such a poor job after having the car 3 days! and when the car was returned it still had loads of boost leaks so i suspected it was just BS on there behalf (typically the only honest thing they said)

anyway i knew there was truth in what bill was saying and started to worry,
after several attempts Bill managed to get round the encryption only to find out that the ecu had even been damaged at some point!
Dammit!! back to worrying im going home unmapped
Bill sensibly had a stack of spare ecu's which he keeps incase these things happen,
luckily/typically the last one in the pile was able to communicate with my car!!
thank god!!!!!
i thought!!
so base map loaded and the car goes on the rollers for the first time!
fueling was low
intakes were very low suspecting the wmi was over working or the wrong nozzle had been fitted!

turns out my fuel pump had killed the relay id bought (3 poxy quid ill never see again)!!!
luckily tuffty was on the ball and it took no more than 5 mins to crack this problem, strangely we never found out why but the wmi started to bahave??
anyway mapping starts and the car is struggling to respond!?
hmmm this is odd.
Bill and Tuffty decide on a hunch to change
my s2000 airfilter
from memory the car was not going over 299 bhp with this filter!!!!so a JR filter is put on and the next run is considerably better!!
only then to find out that my maf wasnt at its best,not totally dead but bad enough to be having flat spots, again Bill sensibly had these on the shelf and in the big scheme of things the extra 80 quid seemed an obvious choice to me!

luckily that was all of my bad luck for the day and the car was finally mapped.
it achieved 329.5 bhp and 280 badger torques!!

the car is totally transformed
it pulls so much harder in every gear without that annoying tailing off!!
it is absolutely what i wanted it to be!!
it drives beautifully. feels normal and controllable around town but mad when you want it to be!!
hopefully people are still reading at this point
i know ive rambled on but i just cannot believe the level of service from badger5
that car was going to be mapped that day no matter what was thrown at the guys.
there was always positivity and they did absolutly everything they could to map the car and map it well.
im so pleased with the car now im literally over the moon.
ill never go anywhere else with my mapping.
not sure anyone else wouldve continued with it after all my issues.
so massive thanks to Bill Paul Nathan and Mark for all the hospitality, advice and being so social
had a great day all round!!

i also need to say an even bigger thank you to Nick "prawn"
i cant say thank you enough with all the advice and support, without it id have literally sold the car last year so its been priceless! especially when you are as useless as i am with cars!!
thanks to you all its been emotional!!

Daz
 
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the ecu was damaged by viezu.. resulting in a track break on the eprom they had soldered onto the board.. resulting in it being readable but not writable. DOH!
Spares handy at times.. Phew!

Good too meet you at last Daz
Enjoy
 
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the guys were all awesome.
it was just an awesome day
nothing was too much trouble ( even though the look on Bills face didnt always agree lol)
but the car was hassle and they did the job
cant thank them enough!!
 
i couldnt remember the actual figures bill but knew it was a fair amount
also worth noting it was obvious why when looking inside as the metal cage holding the filter together was more metal than air gap lol
as spotted by tuffty
 
Was the s2000 old or just not up to the job?

Thats some good service, fixing your car and then mapping it :icon thumright:
 
it wasnt just fixing
it was fix after fix after fix lol
no not old at all
doubt its done anywhere near 1k miles
 
Daz.... Great results there pal.

I was there Saturday. The experience was amazing. Hats off to Bill and Paul. Service was second to none.
Definitely the only place I would use for mapping.
 
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Can't beat good customer service! Im glad i never ran in to any problems when i had my last map done there, but always good to known that im in good hands if something does go tits up
 
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car spec
bbt 418t 15psi actuator
pro4 mani
relentless downpipe
devils own wmi with d03 nozzle
550cc genesis injectors
jr filter
magnex cat back
 
lavis if i turned up and had issues and was left to sort them i wouldnt jnow where to start so you are absolutely right
just nice to know if you go home unmapped its because every option had been tried and not through lack of wanting the hassle
 
Sounds a bit low for a BBT hybrid?

The Magnex exhaust would appear to be the "odd one out" on the usual spec list.

Still, bet it was smiles all round! I remember going from a stage 2 AMD map @ ~280bhp to a hybrid K04 R-Tech map @ 348bhp...couldn't stop grinning :D
 
daz-20vt said:
car spec
bbt 418t 15psi actuator
pro4 mani
relentless downpipe
devils own wmi with d03 nozzle
550cc genesis injectors
jr filter
magnex cat back
Click to expand...

And a welly cooler i'm guessing?
Large port or small port head?
 
low? really?
my car is a track car so was never going to be those figures as it gets hotter than most others
bills never had much over 330 on his rollers with a pro4 manifold
not to mention you cant compare cars on different rollers
go and get any other hybrid k04
id feel confident :)
 
Is the turbo hotside ported to the Pro4 manifold aswell?

If you're tuned for track you wouldn't want monster boost and being richer is a bit safer coping with high temperatures on track, very different to a dyno queen.

Car sounds nice, enjoy it
 
I'd expect nearer 340bhp...but i guess in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a huge difference. Also, I've only ever known it with large port heads too, so maybe that makes a difference.

Either way, 330bhp with a hybrid will feel like a beast in "real life"
 
yeh it defo goes
i know theres a few over 340 but like you say not a million miles away and bill didnt wanna map it hard.my car does next to no road miles other than going to track and back so it will be getting a constant thrashing that a road car wont
 
also an interesting note whil i was there
had ny car weighed by the guys
tufftys car weighed 1475 kg (cant remember how much fuel)

mine weighed in at 1285kg
so just shy of 200kg less so far
very happy with that also!!
 
Final power output of any engine is not totally dependant on bolt on mods... some do better than others regardless of mods... biggest differentiator is engine condition... throwing a new set of rings into a worn engine doesn't always mean its going to be better...

Too many variables with engines that have seen mileage... some respond well like Marks S3 did on saturday, others not so well...

My old GT3071 kit for example... this was eventually fitted to another S3 and mapped at Bill's... while on my engine it would make just under 400hp consistently (390-395 typically) and made cold runs of over 400hp occasionally (best I got was 414hp)... that was with my large inlet mani etc... this S3 has a std inlet and made over 400hp consistently... suggests my engine was a little more tired than I believed it to be...

In my experience there is no magic figure... the engine tolerates what it tolerates at the end of the day and the final figure is just a result of that...

<tuffty/>
 
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one today.. same BBT turbo, same V4 manifold, wmi....... BUT 308bhp... (269g/s of airflow at 22psi/6krpm but not churning that airflow into bhp)
Torque fell away after 5500rpm big time and timing not tolerated by the engine at all. Some 10 degrees less timing tolerant than our lupo aum engine for example.



Many others would start blaming components........... Reality is the Engine is also a component.. and for whatever reason, they are not all created equal in practice.
 
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badger5 said:
one today.. same BBT turbo, same V4 manifold, wmi....... BUT 308bhp... (269g/s of airflow at 22psi/6krpm but not churning that airflow into bhp)
Torque fell away after 5500rpm big time and timing not tolerated by the engine at all. Some 10 degrees less timing tolerant than our lupo aum engine for example.



Many others would start blaming components........... Reality is the Engine is also a component.. and for whatever reason, they are not all created equal in practice.
Click to expand...

Ouch, all that air must be going somewhere....
 
280 ft-lbs from this hybrid
did i read that right?
 
Last edited:
Sounds like you went to the right place Daz. Thats some amazing customer service from the Badger5 team especially given all the problems, Well done guys. I'm looking forward to my visit even more now

Steve
 
I assume you understand why some engines don't make headline figures regardless of whats bolted on them?

<tuffty/>
 
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Bill is a top bloke goes above and beyond to get the car mapped, I had problems with mine once it was all strapped down and run on the dyno to the point Bill got fed up with it and called it a peace of **** lol. But all his hard work getting running correctly I came away with 302.6bhp on a standard k04 with meth, I had problems with injectors either being fake bosch 550's or a weak fuel pump but he got there. Top top bloke.

Glad you have come away a happy man Daz
 
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I tell all my customers,these hybrids are rated around 330bhp. Plain and simple because 9 out of 10 times that's what they make.. some make 350bhp, some struggle to make 320bhp...some suprise us all and make well over what they should, for less boost... people see the odd one which makes high power and expect them all to make that! If I believed that then i'd sell the k16 based one at 420bhp or 376bhp..

If you understand how a k04 hybrid actually works then you know what's realistic and what's fairy tail.

Great result on this one though..
 
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That was mine today. Absolutely awesome service from the guys!
Bill tried everything, but it was drawing in enough air for 335 bhp but would t get over 310 bhp.
He said the cylinders are getting too hot, the coolant temp was rising after it was ran.
Came to the conclusion that maybe a lower temp thermostat and a WMI nozzle at the throttle body could help cool things down so it didn't fall off a cliff at 5500 rpm.
It is what it is, the turbo is rated at 330 and it got close to it!
In real life it has transformed my car. The 285 Badger torques come in strong at 3500 and is an absolute dream to drive!
It's rapid, it puts a smile on my face and that's the main thing.
Il do the few cooling mods Bill recommended, take it to a local dyno and see what the results are and report back :)
 
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TTE Si said:
280 ft-lbs from this hybrid
did i read that right?
Click to expand...

280lbft on this car yep, BBT, V4 relentless
320lbft on our own lupo on BBT & my Exhaust manifold - IDENTICAL boosts, BUT one car tolerates good timing and the other does'nt. ;)

~Badger torques, not over reading higher torques like many other dyno's report.. add 16% to peak value of a badger torque to get an equivalent 'other' dyno torque as best comparison. Thats the dyno lottery difference from comparitive cars run here and 'elsewhere'... They read higher than mine by 16% peak torque value.

You're supposed to be an intelligent man, I'm sure you can work it out - lol

Talking of Trolls ^^^
 
Last edited:
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scotty_24 said:
That was mine today. Absolutely awesome service from the guys!
Bill tried everything, but it was drawing in enough air for 335 bhp but would t get over 310 bhp.
He said the cylinders are getting too hot, the coolant temp was rising after it was ran.
Came to the conclusion that maybe a lower temp thermostat and a WMI nozzle at the throttle body could help cool things down so it didn't fall off a cliff at 5500 rpm.
It is what it is, the turbo is rated at 330 and it got close to it!
In real life it has transformed my car. The 285 Badger torques come in strong at 3500 and is an absolute dream to drive!
It's rapid, it puts a smile on my face and that's the main thing.
Il do the few cooling mods Bill recommended, take it to a local dyno and see what the results are and report back :)
Click to expand...

no worries. have a compression test done also, see how those cylinders are doing as an easy check.
torque fell away a lot relative to others, rapidly after 5500rpm and would only tolerate timing some 10 degree's less than the higher power ones. I think you mentioned when it was revo, std k04 it did the same kinda thing, so things "engine wise" are the problem child. Trying to identify what however is the challenge. High water temps wont help the cylinder cooling, which would hurt their ability to accept decent ignition advance.
You have an equivalent 330lbft which is'nt too bad, but the engines intolerance of timing is its main issue.

I do wonder how variable the tolerancing is on 20v cams, if all other things are equal, boost, afr, temps.....

Be interesting to see what the lupo does with its badger cams shortly

Good to meet you guys yesterday.
regards
bill
 
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badger5 said:
no worries. have a compression test done also, see how those cylinders are doing as an easy check.
torque fell away a lot relative to others, rapidly after 5500rpm and would only tolerate timing some 10 degree's less than the higher power ones. I think you mentioned when it was revo, std k04 it did the same kinda thing, so things "engine wise" are the problem child. Trying to identify what however is the challenge. High water temps wont help the cylinder cooling, which would hurt their ability to accept decent ignition advance.
You have an equivalent 330lbft which is'nt too bad, but the engines intolerance of timing is its main issue.

I do wonder how variable the tolerancing is on 20v cams, if all other things are equal, boost, afr, temps.....

Be interesting to see what the lupo does with its badger cams shortly

Good to meet you guys yesterday.
regards
bill
Click to expand...

Yes it did Bill, on the Revo stage 2 it made 262 bhp and 265 torques on a local trusted Dyno. Same graph profile where the torque dropped off after 5500 pm.
Dont get me wrong Im really happy with the car, it pulls like a train and more inportantly the driveablility in absoloutley unreal. The torque delivery is crazy!
Im going to put a lower temp stat in and "wetter water" coolant into it to aid cooling, and another WMI nozzle in a throttle body adaptor plate to further aid cooling and boost the octane to try and battle any ignition timing pull.

Would it be possible to post the Dyno plots of both mine and Daz'z to show the effect of holding torque for that little bit longer can help reach the top figures?

And also, when are your came for sale?? ha ha!
 
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badger5 said:
Be interesting to see what the lupo does with its badger cams shortly
Click to expand...

This is something I'm massively keen to see!

Good result Daz. I think it's bang on for the spec and doing well.

The lack of pictures in this thread disturbs me though :laugh:
 
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