Future models will have options activated at the dealers.

[josul]

If that is the way you think then you are being delusional. Tell you what....go and get yourself the cheapest van that can be purchased by man and put a sat nav on the screen. Want a heater in it sir? That will be £40!

Your right I am and it was a mistake by Audi's production line to add a GPS antenna and run the relevant cables to a receiver, etc. when building cars which did not have the SatNav option ticked on the order. Your right, they did not do this because of the result of analysing how much it would cost to do so against the cost savings on simplifying the production line and the additional throughput. Your right, their margins are so small they dropped a massive ball.

The world of optional extras is changing and has already with some other manufactures. VW are going to have to do something different to others to keep their sales volume and lucrative options cog turning.

Now I best get off and do as you say and go buy a cheapo van, even though that statement of yours bears no relevance to anything that has been said.

 

[Peter123]

Now I best get off and do as you say and go buy a cheapo van, even though that statement of yours bears no relevance to anything that has been said.

This last line obviously misses the point! You give the impression that you do not a want the manufacturer to make any profit from purchases to invest in the future, but everything to be given to you at cost. Do you ever purchase new T Vs, Smart Phones or Laptops or Computers? Ahhhh I thought not! Perhaps the Cheapo van is exactly what you need.

 

[oli356]

Ye should have spent more on one mate and got the Technology package instead of going for a car with a Pauper spec..........lol

I like to be a gen behind , means there's room for upgrades lol

 

[Jcbmally]

@Jcbmally this is 3rd/4th thread on this subject

My apologies, I didn't realise it has been covered before .

 

[Jcbmally]

Plenty of opinion then, I did state "don't shoot the messenger" peeps.

 

[josul]

This last line obviously misses the point! You give the impression that you do not a want the manufacturer to make any profit from purchases to invest in the future, but everything to be given to you at cost. Do you ever purchase new T Vs, Smart Phones or Laptops or Computers? Ahhhh I thought not! Perhaps the Cheapo van is exactly what you need.

Yeah still don't follow what your talking about with this. Unsure how you could reach that conclusion with what I have said.

Sounds to me like your clutching at straws trying to find a way to justify your pointless posts as they have no relevance to this thread.

 

[Peter123]

Yeah still don't follow what your talking about with this. Unsure how you could reach that conclusion with what I have said.

Sounds to me like your clutching at straws trying to find a way to justify your pointless posts as they have no relevance to this thread.

Haaa haaa haa. No you dont follow because it was obvious from your input that you knew nothing about production line building and configuration control.
Bye and have a nice day.

 

[josul]

Haaa haaa haa. No you dont follow because it was obvious from your input that you knew nothing about production line building and configuration control.
Bye and have a nice day.

So I got to buy a cheap van you say originally because I dont spend any money but now its because I dont understand production?

You swapped hands with them straws? Thought so, grip tighter.

 

[B5NUT]

It will never be possible to fit a car with all the options and just switch them on, some of them will conflict like sound systems, you cannot fit 2 - 3 different sound systems in the car, and as people have already pointed out interior components like seats & sunroof are two good examples, and headlights would be another. I just don't see Audi fitting expensive parts to the car like matrix headlights when the basic Xenon can be fitted for a much cheaper price. I also don't see Audi chucking £££ of pounds of hardware on a car which they hope you will pay to have switched on.

Software licensing I understand, but anything requiring hardware I just cannot see it, also look at the new cars coming through A1, Q3 & A6 all have options that will need the correct hardware fitting to the car, I think the OP's sales guy is in fantasy land.

 

[josul]

Do people really think that this guy is suggesting that every possible optional extra will be fitted as standard? Because @Jcbmally clearly does not state that and clarifies that physical options would come from the factory. OK just read OP again, he may have put "All" in bold but come on. @Peter123 no wonder we are not on the same page!

Like I said, cameras, sensors cost nowt in the grad scheme of things for Audi so its these things not a panno roof, different sound system or wheel sizes?! Hey lets throw in there things like heated seats, how much does a heating element cost?

They have already got rid of things from higher models so they can fit one component into all models as its cheaper to produce. They will be looking at what else they can do like this but they will have to cost out before implementing. Exactly like how they fitted GPS to every car years ago and how wiring looms have been fitted and never used.

 

[B5NUT]

What unused wiring looms are fitted to Audi's? I've been retrofitting to Audi's for years and not once has Audi made my life easy by adding the extra harness to the cars, I've always had to buy or make my own harness.

Camera's and sensor may cost nothing, but you have to add the control modules, brackets, wiring and someone to fit that (manufacturing time) to the costs as well. Audi like all manufacturing want to keep the cost as low as possible, not increase the costs by adding unused hardware and wasting time during manufacturing of the vehicle.

 

[Peter123]

What unused wiring looms are fitted to Audi's? I've been retrofitting to Audi's for years and not once has Audi made my life easy by adding the extra harness to the cars, I've always had to buy or make my own harness.

Camera's and sensor may cost nothing, but you have to add the control modules, brackets, wiring and someone to fit that (manufacturing time) to the costs as well. Audi like all manufacturing want to keep the cost as low as possible, not increase the costs by adding unused hardware and wasting time during manufacturing of the vehicle.

Absolutely! Just had front and rear cameras fitted to my Q5. It was cheaper by far in the end to go non oem parts and wiring fitted (as recommended by my audi dealer who gave the contact details of a guy who did it) than pay double for audi parts.

 

[Chris43]

Camera's and sensor may cost nothing, but you have to add the control modules, brackets, wiring and someone to fit that (manufacturing time) to the costs as well. Audi like all manufacturing want to keep the cost as low as possible, not increase the costs by adding unused hardware and wasting time during manufacturing of the vehicle.

That's a good point but you have to consider the cost of the whole supply chain. Not all plugs may get used on a wiring loom but its cheaper to bulk buy standardised looms that will accommodate all options rather than use many variants that have to be held as managed inventory, fed to the production line at the right time etc.

 

[josul]

What unused wiring looms are fitted to Audi's? I've been retrofitting to Audi's for years and not once has Audi made my life easy by adding the extra harness to the cars, I've always had to buy or make my own harness.

Camera's and sensor may cost nothing, but you have to add the control modules, brackets, wiring and someone to fit that (manufacturing time) to the costs as well. Audi like all manufacturing want to keep the cost as low as possible, not increase the costs by adding unused hardware and wasting time during manufacturing of the vehicle.

If I am wrong about unused components then I stand corrected.

Your a retro fitter, excellent. So take yourself back 5/6 years, how much would it have cost you to buy OEM parts to retro fit the SatNav to a A3?

Lets then look at the cost of this to Audi and discuss why they decided to add this to every car.

 

[josul]

That's a good point but you have to consider the cost of the whole supply chain. Not all plugs may get used on a wiring loom but its cheaper to bulk buy standardised looms that will accommodate all options rather than use many variants that have to be held as managed inventory, fed to the production line at the right time etc.

You need to be careful saying things like that Chris, thats not the Audi way, it doesnt work like that and never will.

 

[B5NUT]

That's a good point but you have to consider the cost of the whole supply chain. Not all plugs may get used on a wiring loom but its cheaper to bulk buy standardised looms that will accommodate all options rather than use many variants that have to be held as managed inventory, fed to the production line at the right time etc.

Yes but this leads to issues, for example the sound system there are three options, 8 passive loudspeakers, Audi Sound System and B&O, this would leave a massive amount of plugs & excess wiring that would be unused and plugs that would need to be clamped down otherwise they would just start to rattle around. Similar goes for parking sensors, they would need to be taped up in the bumper. All of this is extra cost & complexity. VW have been making cars with options for more year than I can remember, so I'm sure they have thought all of this, and been through all of the kaizen, kanban & VAVE workshops for their products.

Your a retro fitter, excellent. So take yourself back 5/6 years, how much would it have cost you to buy OEM parts to retro fit the SatNav to a A3

Yes, navigation components were expensive back when the RNS-E system was designed, and technology has become cheaper over the years. A basic navigation system has been included in the UK configuration (Still an option for other markets like europe) however you still have splash out almost £1,400 if you want the high end navigation system, so the price reduction is only a small amount. Also if your talking about retrofitting then price is much higher than the cost of and RNS-E as the technology behind the MIB system are far more complicated! It would take me less than an hour to fit the RNS-E and would take a couple of days to retrofit the latest MIB system + all of the activation required for the MIB system, which can only be done VIA ODIS.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

This thread is getting a wee bit testy now. People have opinions but that is not a reason to throw things out of the pram at one person's thoughts. But just to be clear one model with most of the options installed and then dealer activated or installed is not going to happen .....Two or maybe three pretty loaded packages will be offered on each model with again some options available on each package.
I am now ready for

 

[AlS3BE]

Think for some things, especially software based stuff like nav and drive select, will be activated via codes/dealers as the new design is a centre touchscreen to control things like climate etc so extra buttons programmed in that screen is easily done. Obvious things like wheels, magride, and more hardware based stuff obviously won’t go down that route.
Thing is they already started doing this, the last of the c7 a6 the 218bhp 3.0 tdi and the 272bhp 3.0 tdi had exactly the same engines down to the last component, someone on another forum compared all the parts and the only difference was the map on the ecu. So if you paid the premium for the 272 you had the more powerful map over the 218 otherwise they were identical and any remaps on both would achieve the same/similar power/torque.

 

[josul]

if your talking about retrofitting

No, simply the cost of the parts to get an idea on cost for Audi.

Ok, let's just say it costs them £250 but they sell it for £500. Order history shows that 2 in 3 cars have Sat nav option ticked by the customer. So £750 cost to £1500 sales. They then look at it from a production line time saving and cost point of view (but lets set that bit aside) and work out that for every 1000 cars fitting this as standard saves the equivalent amount of time to making one more car. They then look at the after sales market and find that they can sell the SD card and licencing for 500 to the 2nd hand market for the cars which did not have it enabled in the first place.

Or have they have been making a loss in doing so for the last 5/6 years?

All this is doing is applying that model to more options. No it won't work with different seat material but it may work with the heated seat option. It might not be feasible to do it with lights now, but it could be in a number of years. It might not be practical for speaker systems as mentioned. For parking sensors with this model they would be fully fitted the software would just not be enabled for this when not selected. Its looking at it case by case, at the tech, the costs, market trends etc.

 

[TYb]

Think for some things, especially software based stuff like nav and drive select, will be activated via codes/dealers as the new design is a centre touchscreen to control things like climate etc so extra buttons programmed in that screen is easily done. Obvious things like wheels, magride, and more hardware based stuff obviously won’t go down that route.
Thing is they already started doing this, the last of the c7 a6 the 218bhp 3.0 tdi and the 272bhp 3.0 tdi had exactly the same engines down to the last component, someone on another forum compared all the parts and the only difference was the map on the ecu. So if you paid the premium for the 272 you had the more powerful map over the 218 otherwise they were identical and any remaps on both would achieve the same/similar power/torque.

Same applies for the bmw engines as far as i’m Aware, which shows how maps make such a difference for little money.

 

[josul]

This thread is getting a wee bit testy now. People have opinions but that is not a reason to throw things out of the pram at one person's thoughts. But just to be clear one model with most of the options installed and then dealer activated or installed is not going to happen .....Two or maybe three pretty loaded packages will be offered on each model with again some options available on each package.
I am now ready for

The package route is an interesting thought but will Audi want to follow suit like the rest and break away from tailor made cars?

 

[Flying Scotsman]

The package route is an interesting thought but will Audi want to follow suit like the rest and break away from tailor made cars?

This approach is already taking place with Audi North America and other markets and has accelerated over the last few years. Most models offer two packages and a few options. S3 cheaper package, includes pano roof, leather electric seats, camera, lighting package etc. the premium package offers B&O, sat nav, VC, and a few other goodies as standard. You can not option VC and B&O on the cheaper package. This is where they get you, if you want these features you have to go for the premium package....more money for Audi. All other options such as sat nav, parking plus, sport seats, etc are available as options on both packages.

 

[AlS3BE]

The package route is an interesting thought but will Audi want to follow suit like the rest and break away from tailor made cars?

They are tossing them out the door like a fiesta/corsa now anyway.
Audi,bmw,mb used to make luxury saloon cars now they are making cars to compete with the fiesta. That whole tailor made luxury car market only really belongs to your Aston, Bentleys of the world.
I would say at least 7 out of 10 go to a dealer and buy a stock car or one that’s built already and on the boat over. Rarely people go for a factory build as they are too impatient to wait for one so one that’s close to what they want is fine.
I’ve had 2 factory and 2 stock built Audi cars now and to be fare some of the dealers know how to spec their stock cars picking the cool options so why wait 3-6 months if one is there.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

They are tossing them out the door like a fiesta/corsa now anyway.
Audi,bmw,mb used to make luxury saloon cars now they are making cars to compete with the fiesta. That whole tailor made luxury car market only really belongs to your Aston, Bentleys of the world.
I would say at least 7 out of 10 go to a dealer and buy a stock car or one that’s built already and on the boat over. Rarely people go for a factory build as they are too impatient to wait for one so one that’s close to what they want is fine.
I’ve had 2 factory and 2 stock built Audi cars now and to be fare some of the dealers know how to spec their stock cars picking the cool options so why wait 3-6 months if one is there.

Totally agree.....Personally, I like to custom order what I want but that is going the way of the Dodo bird

 

[Pook]

When recently looking at a SEAT Arona for the missus, I learned they only have set models (4 or 5 or something) with NO alteration of options available to any of them. The model line you pick is what you get, ie you can’t pick the conference model but add premier league wheels or sound system etc. And the sales guy in SEAT told me this is where the rest of the group are going, which makes complete and perfect sense and supports the package theory above. I’d say with almost certainty this is where it will all end up.

 

[Jassyo06]

They are tossing them out the door like a fiesta/corsa now anyway.
Audi,bmw,mb used to make luxury saloon cars now they are making cars to compete with the fiesta. That whole tailor made luxury car market only really belongs to your Aston, Bentleys of the world.
I would say at least 7 out of 10 go to a dealer and buy a stock car or one that’s built already and on the boat over. Rarely people go for a factory build as they are too impatient to wait for one so one that’s close to what they want is fine.
I’ve had 2 factory and 2 stock built Audi cars now and to be fare some of the dealers know how to spec their stock cars picking the cool options so why wait 3-6 months if one is there.

Personal choice that's why you'd wait 6 months, there's too many variables when you're choosing a car and it saves hassle of searching and searching for a suitable in stock/transit model and also some folks like myself prefer a less common paint colour.
Finally when the all new A3 arrives in the showroom you'll have no choice but order a factory build because it always takes time for stock to pile up in the holding lots

 

[Jassyo06]

When recently looking at a SEAT Arona for the missus, I learned they only have set models (4 or 5 or something) with NO alteration of options available to any of them. The model line you pick is what you get, ie you can’t pick the conference model but add premier league wheels or sound system etc. And the sales guy in SEAT told me this is where the rest of the group are going, which makes complete and perfect sense and supports the package theory above. I’d say with almost certainty this is where it will all end up.

That's because of the type of car the Arona is small, compact the spec and option lists are limited The higher up you climb in VAG brands ladder the larger the option lists are, look at Porsche for example

 

[josul]

They are tossing them out the door like a fiesta/corsa now anyway.
Audi,bmw,mb used to make luxury saloon cars now they are making cars to compete with the fiesta. That whole tailor made luxury car market only really belongs to your Aston, Bentleys of the world.
I would say at least 7 out of 10 go to a dealer and buy a stock car or one that’s built already and on the boat over. Rarely people go for a factory build as they are too impatient to wait for one so one that’s close to what they want is fine.
I’ve had 2 factory and 2 stock built Audi cars now and to be fare some of the dealers know how to spec their stock cars picking the cool options so why wait 3-6 months if one is there.

They are which backs up both theories that they need to simplify the production line to churn out the units.

This was a bad choice of words, I was trying to distinguish between the options now to packages.

I dont have that sort of data, the motor trade has not seen a year like this. Recently many would have been walking in for new but coming out with used. Go back a bit it was a lottery as some order books would have forced you into a factory build.

 

[Phutters]

This approach is already taking place with Audi North America and other markets and has accelerated over the last few years. Most models offer two packages and a few options. S3 cheaper package, includes pano roof, leather electric seats, camera, lighting package etc. the premium package offers B&O, sat nav, VC, and a few other goodies as standard. You can not option VC and B&O on the cheaper package. This is where they get you, if you want these features you have to go for the premium package....more money for Audi. All other options such as sat nav, parking plus, sport seats, etc are available as options on both packages.

You might find this interesting.

The fact that many, many more cars are sold 'off lot' (rather than factory ordered) in the States compared to Europe appears to be largely due to a wholly different attitude to buying a car in the first place.

It seems most Americans just don't want to wait. It's not that the car makers wouldn't rather do factory orders, because they would; it avoids dealerships having having thousands and thousands of cars cluttering up their back yards, not to mention the huge amount of money tied up in them.

What they can't change - and it's not for want of trying - is the 'I want a car, and I want it now' ethos.

Americans are very different animals. I'm not unfamiliar with this. I'm married to one.

.

 

[josul]

Personal choice that's why you'd wait 6 months, there's too many variables when you're choosing a car and it saves hassle of searching and searching for a suitable in stock/transit model and also some folks like myself prefer a less common paint colour.
Finally when the all new A3 arrives in the showroom you'll have no choice but order a factory build because it always takes time for stock to pile up in the holding lots

That's because of the type of car the Arona is small, compact the spec and option lists are limited The higher up you climb in VAG brands ladder the larger the option lists are, look at Porsche for example

Exactly, how much does Audi want to move away from this and join the norm?

 

[wab172uk]

This thread is getting a wee bit testy now. People have opinions but that is not a reason to throw things out of the pram at one person's thoughts. But just to be clear one model with most of the options installed and then dealer activated or installed is not going to happen .....Two or maybe three pretty loaded packages will be offered on each model with again some options available on each package.
I am now ready for

Audi are already doing the packages thing now, which is very annoying. Want B&O? Fine, but you must pay for Keyless go and something else you don't want too. Don't want keyless go, then tough S***.

It's cheaper for Audi to build cars this way, as there's less variables on the production line, and they get to sell these packages knowing you're paying for some stuff you don't want, but you're paying for it anyway. Win win for Audi.

 

[Pook]

That's because of the type of car the Arona is small, compact the spec and option lists are limited The higher up you climb in VAG brands ladder the larger the option lists are, look at Porsche for example

Indeed but I suspect the rest are following, certainly to a degree at least, it is surely by far more cost effective.

 

[voorhees]

Never gonna happen

 

[Ron240]

There is so much speculation and disagreement in this thread.
Probably better to just wait and see exactly what is going to happen.....because only time will tell.

 

[Jassyo06]

There is so much speculation and disagreement in this thread.
Probably better to just wait and see exactly what is going to happen.....because only time will tell.

At our age we are never wrong mate...........lol

 

[Jassyo06]

Audi are already doing the packages thing now, which is very annoying. Want B&O? Fine, but you must pay for Keyless go and something else you don't want too. Don't want keyless go, then tough S***.

It's cheaper for Audi to build cars this way, as there's less variables on the production line, and they get to sell these packages knowing you're paying for some stuff you don't want, but you're paying for it anyway. Win win for Audi.

Ah.... they always do this in the last year/18 months of production.....of a Model range it empties the parts bins

 

[Jassyo06]

Exactly, how much does Audi want to move away from this and join the norm?

Higher end Audi models cost that much to build ie the RS6,RS7,R8....the only real profit with these types of models is in the options, l dont get what you mean by the norm,they are perceived as a high end mass producer of cars that can be tailor made to the customers requirements...thats a huge attraction to the fashion conscious/badge snobs and if l am totally honest having a mass produced car that can be tailor made to my requirements/taste is the whole reason l buy a Audi

 

[sve170]

As mentioned, mechanical / body work / seating extras will be via order at factory . OP refers to electronic type options .

Sent from my Nokia 8 using Tapatalk

I am so glad you got this correct, previous post got it totally wrong mentioning all cars would come with s/s Seats, pano roofs....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jcbmally]

So again lots of comments, speculation, disagreements etc. What is happening to this forum ???, surely we can all have an opinion without it getting personal.
As stated in my first post I think fitting hardware options to all cars is a bit b******, It wouldn't make financial sense IMO.
Remember as technology is advancing it is also getting cheaper. My first laptop cost £1500 and I now have one with more features and power for less than the cost of a weekend p*** up. As all cars will be electric in the future it would make sense, IMO, to fit all options that are PROGRAMABLE to the models.
Now where's my popcorn ?

 

[NevMan]

So again lots of comments, speculation, disagreements etc. What is happening to this forum ???, surely we can all have an opinion without it getting personal.
As stated in my first post I think fitting hardware options to all cars is a bit ********, It wouldn't make financial sense IMO.
Remember as technology is advancing it is also getting cheaper. My first laptop cost £1500 and I now have one with more features and power for less than the cost of a weekend **** up. As all cars will be electric in the future it would make sense, IMO, to fit all options that are PROGRAMABLE to the models.
Now where's my popcorn ?

Well said that man. Mixed salted and sweet for me please