A4 2.5 TDI Injector 3 (Needle Lift)

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jamin128

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Good afternoon All,

I was hoping someone could give me some guidance on changing Injector 3 (Needle Lift) on a 2.5 TDI.

I have come across several guides, but can't seem to locate the following info:

1. Where do I get a copper washer for the injector from, or what is the part number?
2. Should I replace any other washers?
3. Were do I get the rocker gasket from, or what is the part number?
4. How do i tighten up the rocker cover - Is there a sequence and/or a certain torque i need to use?
5. I purchase a second hand injector, should or can I clean it before putting it in the car? If yes, then what should I use?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Regards
Ben
 
Copper injector washer from dealer, about 48p each when I got mine.

No other washers required.

I'd get the gasket from the dealer, from memory they are about £18. You can find OE Victor Reinz off the bay for about £13 odd but by the time you factor in delivery etc then just go dealer.

You'll need to get a tube of sealing gasket too as there are 2/3 sections (from memory, need to check the guide) that need sealant when putting the new gasket on. Think is about £5.

No specific sequence for tightening I remember, just try to keep it even as you go. I'll try find the torque, think it's about 10-15 ft/lb.

I bought 3 2nd hand injectors, didn't do much apart from soak them in some diesel and give them a good run with kitchen roll.

Frank
 
Good evening Frank, thank you for the reply.

Hoping to do it at the weekend, if you could check your guide and/or send me a copy that would be great.

Cheers
Ben
 
Oh one other thing i meant to ask, have you changed the same one 3 times, or just the 3 on that side?
 
I've never touched injector 3, it was two injectors on the opposite bank that were playing up when I bought my car so bought 3 spares from a guy who was breaking the same engine code and just did the 3 while I was in there.

I'll did out the details tonight and send them over.
 
Just been rummaging in the garage as I had a nagging feeling there was an o-ring involved...
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426274537520874


I didn't replace them as they looked in fine condition and I'm pretty sure their only purpose is to keep crud & oil out of the injector holes in the head.

Also the p/n for the sealant is D 176 404 A2 - might be worth a call to a VW or Seat garage or TPS with that number and see if they quote you better than £20!

Frank
 
Cheers Frank,

They quoted me £30, I will see if I can find an alternative.
 
Anyone got any recomendations on sealant?
Got a euro car parts and GSF just up the road.
 
Changed injector 3, all put back together, and car is very lumpy and shaking:-(
It's was smoother with the faulty injector!
Scanned an no faults codes.
Difficult to start engine, and very shaky until i rev it hard a couple of times.

Oh why oh why did I think it was a good idea to do this myself!!!

Any help or suggestions of a nice bridge to drive the car off would be greatly appreciated :)
 
Interesting one - maybe the injector / hard line has a little air still in. Try cracking open the hard-line nut on the top of the injector (until diesel flows out) whilst the engine is running to allow any air to escape.

Or, this may be down to the fact the 3rd injector now works and the fuel pump timing is out of spec - take a look at this link;
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-scope/TDIGraph.html
 
AlexGSi2000 said:
Interesting one - maybe the injector / hard line has a little air still in. Try cracking open the hard-line nut on the top of the injector (until diesel flows out) whilst the engine is running to allow any air to escape.

Or, this may be down to the fact the 3rd injector now works and the fuel pump timing is out of spec - take a look at this link;
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-scope/TDIGraph.html
Click to expand...

Afternoon Alex,
Thanks for the reply.
I have already loosened the nuts on top of the injectors until some diesel squirted out, should I loosen them until it flows out?

I am a beginner with VCDS, and do you know how I would adjust the timing if it were out?

Thanks in advance :)
 
Last edited:
Hi Ben, have a read of this for timing:

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/audi-a4-2-5-tdi-pump-timing.94199/

It's worth also having a look at groups 13 &14 in the measuring blocks of the engine module. These show injector quantity deviation and may highlight if it's individual injectors causing your problem.

The reason I changed 2 of my injectors is because of a vibration under load. Group 14 showed two of my injectors were massively out of synch with the rest.

I suppose it's possible your old number 3 injector was good but the needle lift sensor was dead and your new injector has a good sensor but is physically in poorer shape thus causing the poor running. Or potentially it's the timing, as Alex suggested.

Good luck with VCDS - there's lots to look at.

Frank
 
Injector seals must be perfect , they HAVE to be air tight or your in a world of pain.
 
frankc said:
Hi Ben, have a read of this for timing:

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/audi-a4-2-5-tdi-pump-timing.94199/

It's worth also having a look at groups 13 &14 in the measuring blocks of the engine module. These show injector quantity deviation and may highlight if it's individual injectors causing your problem.

The reason I changed 2 of my injectors is because of a vibration under load. Group 14 showed two of my injectors were massively out of synch with the rest.

I suppose it's possible your old number 3 injector was good but the needle lift sensor was dead and your new injector has a good sensor but is physically in poorer shape thus causing the poor running. Or potentially it's the timing, as Alex suggested.

Good luck with VCDS - there's lots to look at.

Frank
Click to expand...

Hi Frank,

Thank's for helping out again.
I will have a read.

The injector i took out was completely blocked by what appeared to be carbon deposit, which is possibly why I had to use some force and 2.5 hours trying to get it out.

I soaked the new injector in diesel, and the diesel flowed through it freely.
 
Darran said:
Injector seals must be perfect , they HAVE to be air tight or your in a world of pain.
Click to expand...

World of pain?
Could i have caused any further damage?
How do I clean out the carbon from the hole the injector goes into?

Will do a VCDS scan tomorrow before taking rocker off again!
 
audi upgrades
The carbon in the hole is caused by the injector NOT sealing which will cause a misfire due to air leak (weak mixture on that cylinder).
 
Darran said:
The carbon in the hole is caused by the injector NOT sealing which will cause a misfire due to air leak (weak mixture on that cylinder).
Click to expand...

So if i take it apart again, then how do i clean the carbon out the hole?

I have already ordered a new O'ring.
 
jamin128 said:
So if i take it apart again, then how do i clean the carbon out the hole?

I have already ordered a new O'ring.
Click to expand...

Best way is to use an injector seat cutter.
However, if the carbon build-up isnt bad you can usually use a long pick-tool and brake cleaner.
 
Does anyone know if I can re-use the new gasket I have used when changing the injector?
 
which gasket (if you mean rocker cover then you should be ok just put a smear of gasket sealer all round it) and yes you can use EGR/carb cleaner just be gentle,
 
Darran said:
which gasket (if you mean rocker cover then you should be ok just put a smear of gasket sealer all round it) and yes you can use EGR/carb cleaner just be gentle,
Click to expand...
The rocker gasket.
 
The new injectors are the same manufacturer as the old as i know that audi use Bosch and Siemens.
 
There wasn't a lot of carbon in there, some at the seat where the copper washer goes.

The old injector is 059 130 202 F (0432133793 291 E)

The new injector is 059 130 202 F (0432133793 290 E)

The number in brackets is slightly different, and the nipple on the end looks ever so slightly different!
 
Think the numbers in the brackets are the Bosch part numbers. The "nipple" is part of the injector nozzle, there are different nozzles with different spray patterns for various applications.

A quick google hasn't revealed anything on those numbers but maybe a diesel injection specialist could confirm the nozzles are for the same applications?

Hopefully your cleaning & new copper crush washer will sort out the poor running.

Frank
 
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In the catalog its lists them as Bosch and for the 2.5v6 but i cant find any info on the slightly different numbers, you could always take a good one out and put it in that cylinder , then scan and see if the fault has cleared on that cylinder ?

I found that very same injector brand new from europe for 153 euros.
 
Just remembered something.................On peugeots and Fords that injector is coded to the ecu ! Is it the same on Audi's i wonder ?
 
Ahaaa the last number is the nozzle ,( the first number is the main injector body bosch number) so it looks like the replacement one has a different nozzle to the original.

Thanks Frank it was your post that pointed me to the nozzle difference.
 
Just leant on and snapped this off :-(
What is it?
 

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Darran said:
Ahaaa the last number is the nozzle ,( the first number is the main injector body boshc number) so it looks like the replacement one has a different nozzle to the original
Click to expand...

I haven't put the rocker cover on yet, what should i do?
 
fuel return valve ontop of the filter body , dont panic you can buy that bit from audi or any good parts place and there cheap.
 
you need to get an injector with EXACTLY the same numbers as the old one mate.
 
audi upgrades
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