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Which suspension set-up is better?

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by Defratos, May 12, 2005.

  1. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Hey guys, I've already posted this in the handeling section but didn't get many replies. Do u guys have any comments:

    I've heard some one on here say that this is probably the best set-up for an S3:

    H&R Springs
    Blistein dampers
    Forge adjustable arms
    Nuespeed ARBs

    Now, what about:

    Koni coil-over setup (fully adjustable, height and damper adjustment)
    Forge adjustable arms
    and Nuespeed ARBS (front and rear)

    any comments? I know the ride is supposed to be a bit more harsh, but does it handel that lil bit better on the track?
    #1
  2. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Now, what about:

    Koni coil-over setup (fully adjustable, height and damper adjustment)
    Forge adjustable arms
    and Nuespeed ARBS (front and rear)

    any comments? I know the ride is supposed to be a bit more harsh, but does it handel that lil bit better on the track?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Forge or Milltek (do they still make them?) adjustable arms will do the same job.

    Neuspeed ARBs just work...but so may H&R or Eibach...who knows!

    Koni coilovers are fine...I have them on my GTI.
    But, they are noisy and harsh...probably more so than the H&R / Bilstein combo, but I can't say for sure as I never tried them.

    The set up you originally mentioned was a ROAD set up...it's perfect for ROAD use.

    For track use, it could do with stiffer rear springs and dampers, and the ability to play with the damping.

    So, in answer to your question, using Koni coilovers will be fine. Overkill for the road...but probably ultimately better on the track...but who knows...it may not be.
    #2
  3. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Just remember...there is no perfect right and wrong with suspension...it's all down to driving ability and perception.

    Any upgrade will be better than stock...but after that, it's all about component choice and set-up

    A perfect setting for me may be awful for you.

    All the best bits badly set up will be a waste and awful to drive...

    Standard stuff well set up will be better than cheap upgrades badly set up.

    You pay your money, and take your choice.

    Personally, If I were spending £1200+ on a complete set-up...I'd want one that just works, straight out of the box.
    Hence, my preference for suggesting the H&R/Bilstein/Forge/Neuspeed combo.
    #3
  4. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Ah, I understand. Ok but is the H&R or Blistein at all adjustable? or you can't damper adjust it? I would agree with you on the fact that Koni is harsh ride, but I don't have anything to compare it with.
    #4
  5. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ah, I understand. Ok but is the H&R or Blistein at all adjustable? or you can't damper adjust it?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    The Bilstein damping is fixed...and to be honest...there is absolutely no need to change it...it's PERFECT for a fast-road S3.

    It just works...


    [ QUOTE ]

    I would agree with you on the fact that Koni is harsh ride, but I don't have anything to compare it with.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Konis tend to be harsher, in my experience...
    Coilovers also tend to be both noiseier and harsher in my experience...

    As to whether you would need to adjust the damping...or whether there is a need to have anything other than the proven Bilstein damping is a matter for debate.

    I never tracked my S3...
    But I presumed that in order to get the car doing what I wanted on the track ,I would need to go harder on the rear damping...

    But, David - who bought my S3 - does trackdays like a man possessed...and swears that there is no need for stiffer rear damping...or front for that matter.

    Perhaps, if the track preformance is your priority, you should contact David R for his thoughts - assuming he doesn't read this and post here.
    He'll be much better placed to comment on the on-track performance of the H&R/Bilstein/Forge/Neuspeed set up...
    #5
  6. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Interesting. I wouldn't know from experience because I haven't taken mine to the track yet, but I think I'm slowley being won over by the blistien, because at the end of the day I would like a nicer all round ride, and for the days that I do take it to track, well, I guess I'll just see what others say, might even pm David R. Cheers for the help Glen, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #6
  7. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    Glen (Ess Three), whats your take on uprating the rear ARB on an S3 as a cheap handling mod? eg. 16mm from V6 4motion or 19mm from R32, but retaining the standard front item(19mm?).
    Of course I know it will be cheaper in the long run to get the full works done at once with changing the springs,shocks and ARBs all at once, but I get satisfaction from doing things step by step... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #7
  8. gc48067
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    gc48067 Member

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    This should reduce understeer (according to a recent tuning article I read anyway...)

    Will be interested to read other opinions.

    Greg
    #8
  9. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    I wouldn't got for a V6 4motion's anti-roll bar, as standard they're pretty bad, the Nuespeed ARBs seem to be the best quality
    #9
  10. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Glen (Ess Three), whats your take on uprating the rear ARB on an S3 as a cheap handling mod? eg. 16mm from V6 4motion or 19mm from R32, but retaining the standard front item(19mm?).


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hard to say...it should work, but I never tried it...

    The problem is that the S3s ARBs in general are too soft...so even though you fit a large rear bar, to reduce understeer - which it will - you will still roll at the front, roll off the edge of the tyre / run out of ideas on standard damping, and understeer anyway.

    Uprated dampers, with a std F ARB and R32 R ARB may work...

    But then there the usual concerns of fitting a large rear ARB on standard rear damping, and the 'unloading' of the rear ARB at awkward times...not something I'd be keen to suggest.

    But, the Neuspeed combo works incredibly well...not cheap...but it just works.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Of course I know it will be cheaper in the long run to get the full works done at once with changing the springs,shocks and ARBs all at once, but I get satisfaction from doing things step by step... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I understand...

    My view:

    Tyre pressures first...

    Then springs / dampers...
    You can get away with lowered springs on standard dampers if the car is new and the dampers are in good order...but it's not nice at the limit...not something I'd do again.
    Ideally springs and dampers next.

    Then play with suspension geometry...rear tie bars, front camber etc
    Waiting will wear the insides of the rear tyres though, if you are quite low (more than -20mm)

    Then ARBs


    It's up to you how you go though...
    #10
  11. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    I thought that every time you swapped springs, then dampers etc etc you would need a 4-wheel alignment done and @ >£120 a time i think i would only want to shell once.
    #11
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    True...but it's still a way of doing it that avoids spending £7-900 in one go.

    Horses for courses etc...
    #12
  13. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Dunc, would you go as far as to change the Knoi's over lets say Blistein dampers? for a smoother ride? or have u personally gotten used to the ride feel? My bro has the Koni set-up so I kinda know how the ride feels but nothin to compare it with.
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  14. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    well I havent driven a car wih Bilsteins to be able to compare.

    I have driven cars with KW coilovers and H&R Comfort coilovers and they are much better (softer) but its down to money at the end of the day - maybe one day...

    Dunc
    #14
  15. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Why which ones are more expensive? aren't the Koni's more?
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  16. sssgucci
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    sssgucci Member

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    IMO the H+R's are defineatly better than koni. I used to have koni's on my old mk2 golf 16v.

    KW are good too but they corrode big time!

    H+R are original factory equipment on golf R32's.(cup kit)
    I later found this out after a "R" kind of di*ked all over me around two roundabouts!

    I blitzed him on the straight though, I hope he saw the CL badge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goofy.gif
    #16
  17. Defratos
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    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    you're talking about the H&R springs? not the coilover kit?
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