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Upgrading to a new b6...but which one?!

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by imported_Audi_DavE, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. imported_Audi_DavE
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    imported_Audi_DavE Guest

    Hey guys, with my current promotion looming (all good soon hopefully) i think im gonna get me some finance and fork out for a newer audi (currently 96 a4 1.9tdi)

    Now im stuck between a rock and a hard place, I may be doing some miles so I thought i would get the 1.9tdi 130 SE or something simmilar, so it had a bit of boot in it while getting from A -> B....but now im thinking i just want some un-adulterated power, so im leaning towards the 1.8t 163 :/

    Now heres the dilema, the insurance aint a problem, around the same on both, give or take, but can anyone shed some light on the performace / fuel economy of both? I know the diesel is gonna be considerably better on those long journeys, i just want some real world figures!

    Regards

    DavE /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/MexWave.gif
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  2. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    30-35mpg + from an a6 1.8t fwd the 1.9tdi will still beat it, but as your after more power 1.8t chip it and you've got 200hp and many further tuning options as the power need gets bigger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #2
  3. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You can chip the diesel and get 190bhp
    In standard form the TDi will give you 48mpg (mainly motorway 85mph with some town driving), the 1.8T 30mpg at best. If you cruise at 75mph you can get 60mpg without any town driving.
    Don't see how on earth you'd get 35mpg from a 1.8T unless you cruise at 54mph. Even our A3 1.8T would only give 35mpg if driven very carefully and it's a fair bit lighter.

    I have the TDi Avant 130 sport and after 66 hours of driving it's showing 48mpg, but the real difference is the range, 600miles on £50 compared to 380 on the petrol. It's no contest really. Personally I like the performance of the TDi, it's very useable without the thrashing needed on the 1.8T. Bought mine on a 51 plate with 112k miles on it for £9k, spent £400 on a leather/alcantara interior, £300 on a laser jammer and now it is a very nice place to be, and it makes me 12p per mile when used for business, whereas the petrol was about half that if you were lucky.

    Really depends what you want. For me it was a doubling of my business miles (2400 miles per month) coupled with having 9 points on the licence. Cruise control is a real licence saver.
    #3
  4. dummi
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    dummi smoking a6

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    yeah that was 35mpg with effort!, daily it was more like 30mpg and even normal motorway 30mpg, not great for economy by any means. i guess the only saving point for the 1.8t in this situation is its potential to modify in the future, k04, big turbo,
    #4
  5. markpetty
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    markpetty Member

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    I have a 190PS 1.8T and I get around 30mpg, with a mix of town, A roads and motorways, I would describe my driving style as brisk. I wouldn't say you have to thrash the engine at all to get performance out of it, if you are above 1500rpm then you get usable performance when you press the throttle i.e. the engine doesn't labour. I would say I prefer the petrol over the diesel because it has a very wide power band and is refined. Comparatively the diesel has a narrow power band, is noisy and has abrupt power delivery. Compare the running costs, purchase price and residual values of the 1.9tdi and 1.8T to see if the 1.9tdi is a better investment for you, remembering that diesel is more expensive per litre, the petrol may have a lower list price but the diesel may retain more value. It's a tougher decision than you'd think but I'm sure once you've driven them both you'll know which one you prefer. Also the diesel might feel quicker because of the power kick even if ultimately it wouldn't beat the 1.8T in a straight line, I don't personally see the point in chipping the engine unless you're really into that kind of thing because it does nothing for your insurance premium and you'll narrow the appeal come re-sale time.
    #5
  6. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't think the marginal price difference between diesel/petrol is really a factor when you're getting at least 50% more miles per tank.
    I don't really think it's a tough decision at all.
    If you're doing a lot of miles then economy will be more important than performance
    12k miles per year will cost you £1100 in diesel (that's 20 visits to the forecourt)
    12k miles will cost you nearer £1900 in the petrol (that's 34 fuel stops)
    I would say over 12k miles a year the diesel has to be favourite, under 12k a year and it's more marginal.
    Residuals are important with 1.8T prices through the floor at the moment but you'll save when you buy the car as well. I'd also say you're safer with a high mileage diesel over the petrol as the 1.9 lump seems pretty indestructable and is less likely to have been thrashed.
    Road tax is £35 cheaper on the diesel
    The down side, as I found, was you'll struggle to get the TDi you want with leather interior, which for me was a must.
    Undoubtedly you'll have more fun in the petrol.
    My comment about thrashing the 1.8T wasn't a negative, it's just it begs to be thrashed and it's difficult not to take it to 5k revs with every gear change.
    #6
  7. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    I have a 190PS 1.8T and I get around 30mpg, with a mix of town, A roads and motorways, I would describe my driving style as brisk. I wouldn't say you have to thrash the engine at all to get performance out of it, if you are above 1500rpm then you get usable performance when you press the throttle i.e. the engine doesn't labour. I would say I prefer the petrol over the diesel because it has a very wide power band and is refined. Comparatively the diesel has a narrow power band, is noisy and has abrupt power delivery. Compare the running costs, purchase price and residual values of the 1.9tdi and 1.8T to see if the 1.9tdi is a better investment for you, remembering that diesel is more expensive per litre, the petrol may have a lower list price but the diesel may retain more value. It's a tougher decision than you'd think but I'm sure once you've driven them both you'll know which one you prefer. Also the diesel might feel quicker because of the power kick even if ultimately it wouldn't beat the 1.8T in a straight line, I don't personally see the point in chipping the engine unless you're really into that kind of thing because it does nothing for your insurance premium and you'll narrow the appeal come re-sale time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree the 1.8t 190ps (187bhp) is a great engine for the A4. In standard form the max torque is flat from 1850rpm to 6000rpm which as Mark says makes for an easy drive.

    I'm getting an average of 28mpg overall on the DIS which is AFTER ny Re-Map and covers very mixed use.On motorway runs I always get over 32mpg shown on the DIS sometimes 35-36 Which I think is pretty good TBH.

    The Re-Map has made the car even more enjoyable to drive, with slightly more torque from 1800rpm to 2300rpm and then a lovely surge of turbo power right to 6000rpm and beyond. There's no need rev past 5000rpm though - I just short shift and enjoy the extra torque.
    My Re-Map was done by Star Performance using their 'DualSystem' OBD II box - I can reload my standard software back to the ECU in 4 mins.

    I love the drive of my car, the S-Line suspension can be tiresome on poor roads but it does Grrrip when needed - Quattro is a must on an Audi IMO and I wouldn't be without it now, just for the times I want to have a 'play' - I can!

    I hate diesels of any kind and I'll never do enough mileage to justify diesel ownership - which is a relief /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just my opinon before I'm blasted by the 'oil burners' . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Space, Grace and Pace /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #7
  8. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "I hate diesels of any kind "
    I'm sure that's gonna help Dave make his decision
    No one in their right mind is gonna buy a diesel if they're not concerned about fuel economy (or company car tax).
    I kind of get the feeling that Dave is concerned about mpg and wanted some real world advice on what to expect, so banging on about how great your souped up Quattro is, while interesting, is not really gonna help him.
    Don't get me wrong, I had the same attitude until circumstances changed and it was costing me money to run my 2.8Q for business miles, with no lives left on my licence (again). So the Quattro is relegated to our second car, but I have to say while I don't miss driving it everyday it's comforting to know I can if I want
    #8
  9. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest

    [ QUOTE ]

    I hate diesels of any kind and I'll never do enough mileage to justify diesel ownership - which is a relief /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just my opinon before I'm blasted by the 'oil burners' . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Andy - Please don't quote me out of context, like I said it was just my opinion.

    I've worked 18 years in the franchised motor trade.The manufacturer I currently work for make some of the best diesel engines in the world. But they’re not for me. Sorry.

    I'll quote Dave's original post now -

    [ QUOTE ]
    ....but now im thinking i just want some un-adulterated power, so im leaning towards the 1.8t 163 :/

    Now heres the dilema, the insurance aint a problem, around the same on both, give or take, but can anyone shed some light on the performace / fuel economy of both? I know the diesel is gonna be considerably better on those long journeys, i just want some real world figures!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't think that I was banging on about my 'souped up Quattro' I gave a brief description and quoted the ‘real world’ fuel consumption as requested by Dave.


    It's something I've learned about Audi Sport - Some of you are very highly strung, aren't you? You can't seem to tell the difference between a slightly ‘tongue in cheek’ comment and a blatant sarcastic one. It's a shame because Audi Sport is a very good source of valuable information.

    BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    Edit - Dave just ignore us and go with your heart - all that matters is you buy another '4 Ringed' car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #9
  10. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Come on Bub lighten up, you can't expect to say something like that and expect no come back. It was deliberately provocative and it would have been a sad reflection of this forum if someone hadn't responded.
    Unlike you, I think it is exactly this sort of light hearted banter that keeps this forum alive, otherwise it would be dull, dull, dull.
    I know it is politically incorrect to actually have an opinion these days, and even less pc to defend it, which is why this forum works. I'm frankly fed up with people either being scared to voice it or hiding behind IMO all the time in case they actually get drawn into a discussion.
    This is a forum, of course every post on it is just someones opinion, surely that doesn't preclude some disagreement and debate as long as the content is loosely based on fact and people are willing to defend what they've said. You yourself have done exactly that, which was what I expected until you ruined it with the snooty postscript.
    It's such a shame people on here can't just all agree with me, how dull (and very wrong) would that be?
    #10
  11. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Anyway, back to the original point, I assumed Dave was joking when he referred to a 1.8T as unadulterated power.
    Maybe back in the 80's but when you can buy an average Vectra/Mondeo repmobile with similar specs (including some diesels) it's not really considered a "hot" car, chipped & tuned yes maybe but in stock form it's just the norm these days.
    #11
  12. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    Come on Bub lighten up, you can't expect to say something like that and expect no come back. It was deliberately provocative and it would have been a sad reflection of this forum if someone hadn't responded.
    Unlike you, I think it is exactly this sort of light hearted banter that keeps this forum alive, otherwise it would be dull, dull, dull.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No hard feelings Andy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    It's just the tone of your post seemed a little more 'sinister' than just a bit of light banter.

    It's very difficult judge in what context a post is written without maybe a smiley here and there……………….. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif - SEE?

    The last comment was maybe a bit over the top but I remember the problems the forum was having a while back and I respect the Mod's and value of the forum to me.

    I guess I did bite quite hard - I think it was the 'souped up Quattro' that did it................. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif


    Carry on

    BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #12
  13. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    Anyway, back to the original point, I assumed Dave was joking when he referred to a 1.8T as unadulterated power.
    Maybe back in the 80's but when you can buy an average Vectra/Mondeo repmobile with similar specs (including some diesels) it's not really considered a "hot" car, chipped & tuned yes maybe but in stock form it's just the norm these days.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good! Back on topic /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bravo.gif

    I know what you're saying about 'unadulterated power' but I think Dave is still looking at both engines. The trouble with the modern 'cooking' turbo engine is the way it delivers it's power in such a flat and dare I say it...? Boring way. I mean 200bhp is the norm today but it just doesn't feel like you've got that power. Hence the reason for my Re-Map, just to 'liven' things up a bit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and it's not been detrimental to economy, which is nice.

    Dave, have a drive of both and let us know how you get on. You now know what to expect economy wise - it's your call. But here's a tip - Don't buy a tractor again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #13
  14. The911SC
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    The911SC Active Member

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    I would go for the 1.8T but the 190PS one (s-line if possible). I have one chipped by Amd to 231 bhp and 251lbs of torque; sorry diesel owners, there's no comparison! ;-)

    Given that you have an oil burner already, you probably are in the 'liking diesel' camp so the 1.9tdi would be a good bet for you.(I'll be in the other camp with the petrol heads!)
    Dont forget that diesel services are more frequent and more expensive so there goes some of your savings...

    If you want a 190PS 1.8T, you will need a post 53 (Spetember) plate. I know this since mine is one of the first 190's in my area.
    #14
  15. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So getting a healthy 50mpg from your 1.8T then?
    Thought not.
    As already stated etc etc blah blah read the thread
    #15
  16. The911SC
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    The911SC Active Member

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    Can't say that the difference between 50 and high 30's mpg makes much difference to me... I would rather a smoother quicker car but each to their own...

    You seem to get very defensive over the oil burners Andy?... ;-)
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  17. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "You seem to get very defensive over the oil burners Andy?"

    No not really, just frustrated that people on here seem to immediately take sides like one is better than the other without actually basing it on any criteria.

    Obviously the 1.8T is a great engine and given the choice with no other criteria then you'd be mad to choose a diesel instead.
    But given that you can't get high 30's from even the stock 150bhp version, let alone a 231bhp version (unless going downhill in neutral, or sitting at 56mph on the motorway with no accelerating), the diesel only becomes a contender if doing significant mileage (15k+ per year) where you can offset the lack of performance/smoothness against significant savings on fuel.
    After owning a 1.8T A3 (30-35mpg at best with mixed driving) and a 2.8Q (24mpg, ouch) and a 1.9TDi 50mpg I'm not saying any one is the better car, just that if fuel economy is important then the performance of the TDi is a reasonable compromise and can actually feel quicker low down the rev range. If it's not an issue then its petrol everytime, obviously.
    Sorry but I thought all this was pretty obvious, but I've typed this post slowly just in case
    #17
  18. imported_bubstar
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    imported_bubstar Guest



    I wonder if Dave's had a drive yet?

    Dave , are you there?

    I hope our 'bun fight' has been of some use to you....................

    BUB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #18
  19. madvw
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    madvw Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Dave , are you there?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think I saw him running down the road mumbling something like " theyre all a buncha nutters...get me outta here" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #19
  20. imported_Audi_DavE
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    imported_Audi_DavE Guest

    lmao, ive started a bloody riot. Ok, went down to the stealership near me and have arranged a test drive on the Tdi 130. Got the promotion yesterday, so now im gonna be driving to macclesfield and back everyday, clocking around 500miles a week. No choice really, has to be a diesel, or the extra cash im gonna be gettin on salary is gonna go down the pisser! THanks for all your opinions, and although we nearly had an e-fight on our hands, all is good. Can you get the Tdi in Quattro form? or is that just limited to the Petrol / higher performing models?! SOrry about the delayed reply, have been flying around the country getting interviewd / seeing new people and things, bit of of a drag /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

    Regards

    DavE
    #20
  21. The911SC
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    The911SC Active Member

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    I think you can get the 1.9 and 2.5 diesels in Quattro form.
    good luck with it..
    we like a good 'bun fight' on this board now and again!...
    #21
  22. howatsi
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    howatsi Member

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    Just so you can manage your costs, I've run a 1.9TDI Sport Quattro since new April 04, now with 48k miles. Averages 45-47 mpg, tyre wear at least 25k miles for a set of 4 contis sports 2 and it averages 18k miles between (variable) services. No breakdowns and a couple of minor niggles (PAS pump noisy - replaced & a faulty wheel sensor - replaced) sorted under warranty. Comments a good motor, but the servicing costs by the dealer are outrageous, it's basically the same as VW/Skoda!!!

    Good luck!
    #22
  23. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You're just a troublemaker Dave, with your conflicting requirements!!!
    Hope you find a goodun, you won't be disappointed, especially if they're paying you business mileage rates for the 500 miles/week.
    #23
  24. Marko
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    Marko Member

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    Well, I'll stick my bit in now..

    Firstly this was an interesting thread and was quite humerous /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

    I have to agree with Andymac. I've had petrol engines for years and have just bought my first diesel (May 2005). It's the 1.9 TDi sport and having had it 6 months would never touch a petrol again. I do miss those nice high reving sessions with petrols and the accompanying exhaust tune! That said, the torque and MPG is fantastic. I used to fill up once a fortnight with the petrol, now it's once a month and often having done more miles. I like the excellent low end pick-up and can often shoot away from other cars whilst they are winding the engines up.

    In the end it's personal preference. The diesel does sound louder first thing and a tick over, but once warm I barely notice it.

    Diesel for me!
    #24
  25. technics100
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    technics100 Member

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    I also agree, I had a 2.6 v6 A4 (150bhp) and changed to a 2002 A4 1.9 Tdi. The Tdi is quicker point to point compared to the V6, doesn't sound as good, but uses 1/2 the fuel. Hugh amounts of torque straight away. You also get the bonus of seeing the faces of 528 drivers etc when you leave them in a cloud of smoke...literally

    remember

    NO SMOKE NO POKE
    #25
  26. imported_CurryMilkShake
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    imported_CurryMilkShake Guest

    Ive been running a straight 1.9tdi 130 sport for a while now - 41,000 miles in 18 months, so a similar mileage to your predicted!

    Am still over the moon with it, still makes me smile, wouldnt hesitate to get another (though I love the thought of that 3.0tdi lump... )

    For me the best compromise, for similar mileage, and company car was this one, plus the AMD remap - transformed the drive, outperforms the (standard) 1.8T but retains the economy.. Fantastic all round compromise!
    #26

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