upgrades while doing head gasket

daz-20vt

Registered User
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
2,825
Reaction score
585
Points
113
Location
NULL
Hi guys
Sadly last teack day my car killed itself by getting too hot and killing the head gasket.

Now im wondering if i should be changing anything while the heads off.
I have rods and a k04 hybrid.
Worth any kind of upgrade

Im considering a turbo change to while im at it
2871r
3071r etc

Thoughts??
 
lol, turbo change is more than "just" the turbo of course..
skys the limit if your budget is up to your desires
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamHendry
IMHO Heat management might be preferable to ARP head bolts at this stage, currently the head gasket is the weak point.
If you bolt the head down tighter wheres the next weak point

Bigger radiator
Phenolic inlet spacer
Exhaust Manifold heat shield
Port the turbo to match to manifold
Oil cooler upgrade

Then there's always a Girdle/windage tray if you don't want a dry sump, lol
 
Ok lets try again.
I want a bit more performance from my car.
Im yet to have the head checked for cracks etc. I would like a nice solid 360bhp and i want to scrap my wmi.
Dobi need anything more than just rods?

I know a knew manifold downpipe and intake will be required but what about large port head
Valves and springs
My injectors are 550cc
Etc etc.
If my current build is good for 360 ish then great.
But ive no idea when all these things need upping
 
How?
Setious question
Besides dont assume in poor!
 
How?
Setious question
Besides dont assume in poor!
I'm not, it's just a lot of people assume is easy.

Turbo is around a grand
Manifold and downpipe will set you back at least another grand
Lines aren't cheap, I'm currently having some made so il update with cost.
Waste gate should you go external, 200-300.
Injectors coz 550s are too small ~ 200
And a map ~500
 
  • Like
Reactions: limbo118118
Im not inc price of head work as that need doing anyhow
Bigger than 550 for 360 bhp
Thats a bit of a bummer.
Im not power mad like you lot just trying to up grade a smidge and have it running a bit easier rather than faster.

Plus i can always resell my hybrid set up .
 
Prawn said not to lol

My hybrid is awesome but i just dont like running it so hard on a track car.

Plus my car has blown the gasket its gonna cost a few quid.
So im kind of trying to make good of a bad situation.

I like the idea of of 064.
Plus i have a polish mate who can get me a used turbo and adaptor for 400 quid from poland
 
As a track car you should put money into managing heat and the abuse.

Inconel exhaust valves
Spring and retainers
Rebuilt head with new guides and seals
Alloy rad
Lower stat
Oil cooler
WMI
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamHendry
Different situation as to why my head needs to come off (cam chain tensioner throwing a fault, stem seals gone, possible cracked head) but I was looking into this as well. It starts getting crazy money.
I decided the hybrid is as far as I want to go power wise, So I'm just fitting new stem seals to the second hand head I've got.

If I wanted to push the boat out maybe valves and springs may be an idea but this ****** car has cost me so much I literally can only afford to do the basics.

I emailed Bill and asked would it be worth taking it down to see if he can get any more out of it now the engine should be 100% more healthy than it was when it went for the hybrid mapping, he just said he would have to run it and see.

Whats your heart telling you? Rebuild it safe so you can use it at the current state of tune more, or are you wanting to go big and put £$£$ into it?

If I had the money I would leave it with Bill as Gops has done and let him make the car something epic like Gops, Tuffty etc etc
But now in the real world saving for a house etc for me personally, better the devil you know.
Im fitting a second hand lower mileage head. Killing two birds with one stone, new stem seals and a new chain tensioner.

I think you have an itch for more power............
 
I fried my head just before Xmas and was in a sort of similar position in terms of what to do next...

Luckily my mechanic ended up having a freshly ported/polished AGU head available, with single piece exhaust valves and cat cam exhaust springs that sorted me out.

Plan was to go K04-64 hybrid to get the most out of the head but things didn't quiet go to plan so was a bit of a waste with my K04 in the end :-\
 
Ok lets try again.
I want a bit more performance from my car.
Im yet to have the head checked for cracks etc. I would like a nice solid 360bhp and i want to scrap my wmi.
Dobi need anything more than just rods?

I know a knew manifold downpipe and intake will be required but what about large port head
Valves and springs
My injectors are 550cc
Etc etc.
If my current build is good for 360 ish then great.
But ive no idea when all these things need upping

scrap your wmi?
are you fcuking mad?
 
  • Like
Reactions: StaceyS3, SamHendry, superkarl and 1 other person
Prawn said not to lol

My hybrid is awesome but i just dont like running it so hard on a track car.

Plus my car has blown the gasket its gonna cost a few quid.
So im kind of trying to make good of a bad situation.

I like the idea of of 064.
Plus i have a polish mate who can get me a used turbo and adaptor for 400 quid from poland
why **** about on an 064.. when for same effort you can have so much more
pointless imho
 
  • Like
Reactions: Prawn
Would i need to retain my wmi with a bigger turbo running cooler?
 
Would i need to retain my wmi with a bigger turbo running cooler?

its helps.... regardless of turbo size... especially for sustained track use.
Its not just for hybrids..

Not tuning to maximise it, but to keep lid on temps when track bashing
 
I love seeing the weekly thread where you are constantly changing your mind :p Very entertaining

Just get it over and done with, take the car to Bill, hand him your credit card and tell him how much power you want and I can't imagine he will have any problems getting it for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dani_B19 and Prawn
Why did i know prawn would be reading this and not answering.
And i KNEW he would like that comment!

Great mate seeing he is the one who fried the head gasket
 
I dont feel im in an easy place though to be honest.
2 years ago i had the rods fitted which meant all new beslts pumps and gaskets

Then a few months later my oil stem seals go so head off again all new gaskets pumps belts

Then the car was off road for months having the hybrid fitted etc.

I get 2 trackdays out of it
All cut shirt due to reliability.
And the head gasket goes on the last trackday.

I have so much time money and effort in this car im struggling to know what to do.
Its not really saleable either being so stripped so would neef breaking.
 
I hate to say it but that's the risk you take modifying cars.

I've blown a gearbox trying to push over 800nm of torque through it. Trust me that wasn't a cheap fix.

What reliability issues did you have on your first two track days?

This is something everyone faces, if you have a look through tuffty's build thread he has had many hiccups along the way. His car caught fire, he over-revved it and many others. But he just gets on with the job and fixes the issue and makes sure the car is better than before.

I haven't entirely read Prawn's thread but I'm sure he has had many issues arise along the way, and you know how awesome his car is now.

It's all part of the experience, you have to look past it and think of how good the car will be when it's finished/fixed.

ps: go GT30
 
Oi, quit blaming me, it was cold at one end of the straight and 120 degrees at the other end, that's not a Prawn Frying, that's a fecking great problem :(

It really does all come down to money mate.

Your hybrid is good. The power delivery is great, it’s pretty damn fast, I like it.

K04-064? Nope. Not for you.

I love mine, it’s ****** brilliant, BUT, as a paying customer I would not consider it as an upgrade over the hybrid setup you already have. It’ll make ~20bhp more, but it’ll still run hot like a hybrid, and it’s still a small turbo being pushed HARD and to it’s limit. It’s fast for sure, but it’s simply not what you’re looking for. It’s also more of a DIY prospect, as whilst the hardware is considerably cheaper than any BT, the custom work and labour involved is very similar.

IF you want to go for more power, then it’s advisable to at least have exhaust valves and springs. Those, with a head build and new guides will set you back in the region of a grand.

If you want to go GT30, you’re looking at ~£1k for a turbo, ~£500 for a downpipe, I’m unsure on manifolds TBH but it’ll be £500 +. Ideally if going to that trouble you want it externally gated, which adds more again.

Your 550cc injectors at 4 bar with an inline pump will fuel fine for sub 400bhp.

On top of the basics you’ve got fluid lines and a TIP to contend with, so budget a good few hundred for those.

I’m not saying don’t do it, I’d ****** LOVE a GT30 more than anything, but do bare in mind it’ll cost at LEAST £3k to complete as a minimum, and you’ve still got a good £1k to spend on suspension to make the car worth driving.

Perhaps a more sensible option would be to future proof the engine now with a head build, and keep your hybrid for the time being and spend the rest of the money on suspension. At least that way the engine is then ready got a GT30 at a later date, and you’re not £4k out of pocket to find out if you even like the car!
 
  • Like
Reactions: daz-20vt
As much as I respect your sensible, well thought out reply Prawn....

3968.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: daz-20vt
Oi, quit blaming me, it was cold at one end of the straight and 120 degrees at the other end, that's not a Prawn Frying, that's a fecking great problem :(

Why did it overheat?
water pump shagged? Thermostat stuck closed or something?
 
and creeps boost like a mofo

ever tried one karl? no. did'nt think so

T25 flanged internally gated units are a waste of space, let alone sticking a GTX wheel in them.
I'm talking about the EFR not my gtx.

Seems the EFRs are cracked up to what they're supposed to be, unlike the gtx.

Based purely on daz' requirements in this thread, it's ideal. I'm not saying it's the best thing in the world, don't take it that way.

Context
 
Why did i know prawn would be reading this and not answering.
And i KNEW he would like that comment!

Great mate seeing he is the one who fried the head gasket
I dont believe he built your car

Fancy letting your mate drive a fcuked up car eh? :p
 
I'm talking about the EFR not my gtx.

Seems the EFRs are cracked up to what they're supposed to be, unlike the gtx.

Based purely on daz' requirements in this thread, it's ideal. I'm not saying it's the best thing in the world, don't take it that way.

Context
bulky things
EFRs sound interesting, only seen external gated ones so far.. and were'nt anything to shout about relative to anything else
Too many versions to know whats what, let alone whats good..
Pricey little critters
 
bulky things
EFRs sound interesting, only seen external gated ones so far.. and were'nt anything to shout about relative to anything else
Too many versions to know whats what, let alone whats good..
Pricey little critters
Yeh they definitely have their drawbacks, but in terms of performance they seem to be doing well.
Pagparts utilise them as part of some of their kits, mostly for the Tfsi though, and as one of the industry leaders, they must be good
 
it’s a strange one as to why it overheated.

What we do know is that the fan switch stopped working. The car was having various issues through the day, but we turned the power right down, and headed out to do some laps to give Daz a feel for it on low boost, and all was going OK. It was driving without issue and the temps were holding solid.

Daz did about 10 laps on the trot around Bedford, then asked me to jump in to show him a few different lines etc. I did an outlap during which the car was fine, then on my first flying lap I glanced at the temp guage entering the hairpin, and it was bang on 90, round the hairpin, down the straight, through the chicane to the second part of the big back straight, and as I hit the brakes for the corner at the end the dashboard lit up and the coolant was at 120, not 30 seconds later.

Something caused that, be it a dead impellor, stuck stat, whatever, I’m unsure.

After that I bridged the fans with a bit of wire to get them on, but only low speed would work. We flushed the coolant system and even bled the rad out whilst it was running. With the header cap off it’d bubble away but hold it’s water and hold at 90-100 degrees. With the cap screwed down it’d overheat to 110-115 within 2 minutes and we had to turn it off. It’d then bubble away from the header tank for 5-10 minutes such was the pressure in the system :(
 
Bill the axilary pump and fan switch both packed up on the day!!!!
Whats the chances :(

Clearly not prawns doing incase anyone thinks im serious!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevie e
The ironybin all this is only that morning didni tell nick it seems to run really cool lol

80 ish degrees
 
the fan control module controls the fans and the pump
 
Bill the axilary pump and fan switch both packed up on the day!!!!
Whats the chances :(

Clearly not prawns doing incase anyone thinks im serious!!!!

Those that know you don't... mostly ;)

Anyhoo... I personally think you should nail the engine back together to get it back where it was... sort the chassis and brakes out as required to get the car feeling like it should THEN worry about reliability, more power etc...

More power in a car that doesn't handle will make you more unhappy than a car that handles lovely with the power you have...

Get it sorted then look at the engine/more power...

<tuffty/>
 
  • Like
Reactions: scotty_24
Daz, I reckon rebuild your head like I am, get some expensive coilovers on it and take it from there. If its still no good, book into Badger 5 for BT.
That's my plan ha ha
 

Similar threads

Replies
11
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
654
Replies
7
Views
901
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
1K