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Turbo upgrade :)

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Lee Goodall, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Ok.. after producing some detailed drawings of a custom/bespoke 3" MAF and sharing them with 'our metal guy' it appears that it will be too costly to produce in small quantities.. sorry Byzan and Drizz.

    I have purchased a cheap/copy Audi TT 225 (APX engine) MAF sensor/housing which I will be using to house my original sensor. Not as good looking as the metal MAF housing but it'll do the job nicely.

    The TT MAF sensor was only £24.95 with free delivery.. bargain I say.
  2. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Cheap as chips mate, let us know how you get on
  3. davkav
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    davkav Member

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    Aye thats what I have waiting to go in at the moment.

    Upon fitting the 3" housing will the ECU adapt or will it run like a dog and the map need to be adjusted to suit?
  4. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    it will run very lean and very badly without it being mapped to suit.
  5. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Hmmm?.. good question.

    I'd imagine the fuelling wouldn't be perfect but driveable.. IFAIK the sensor is operated by the cooling effect of the air past the sensor (heated wire thing). The bigger diameter would mean a less concentrated flow and i doubt the ECU would be programmed to adapt to it. I may be way off the mark though??
  6. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    DON'T fit it until you are mapped to suit, fueling will be miles off. The poor ECU will have to try and asapt like crazy.
  7. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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  8. davkav
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    davkav Member

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    I have the ITG fitted and have had zero problems with it. Take it out every so often and dust it off and thats about it. Never caused any probs to the maf etc.
  9. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Yeah I ran a Pipercross (foam) one for a while with no issues on my green A4. I seem to recall somebody saying that they start to break down and turn to paste that clogs everything up or something though??

    davkav what turbo setup are you running/planning to run?
  10. davkav
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    davkav Member

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    at the moment I have a K04 and injectors in. Hit the dyno a while back and made 220bhp with 315ft/lb. Wasnt overly happy but theres a lot of tweaking to be done after 4500rpm. Since then the clutch has shat itself probably due to the massive torque spike. I've fitted a Spec Stage 3 with lightened flywheel and have about 1200miles on her now. So ill be hitting the dyno again this month hopefully get it tuned a good bit better.

    With regards the MAF. I was planning on fixing it to my airbox maybe this weekend and if it runs like **** I think Ill just put a cone filter onto the 2.5 as a temporary measure.

    As for future planning. Im already gathering my parts for a GT2871r Eliminator. Even if my K04 hits the 250 mark. the power band is not what im looking for at all.

    My shopping list now includes:
    GT2871r
    Revo software
    650 injectors
    FMIC
    The guys on Audizine reckon the THS High flow mani for our car is probably from the same cast as the ATP one so ill probably go with that too.
  11. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Sounds good mate.. keep us posted with any progress :thumbsup:
  12. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Will be interesting. I am still struggling to see how the US has off the shelf applications for tuning a K04 and up, over here you have more chance of winning the lottery than finding a tuner that knows his stuff.

    I 'think' i have the tuner sorted,just need him to buy a 4wd dyno...
  13. davkav
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    davkav Member

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    What about getting your tuner to agree with a 4wd dyno tuner to use his dyno. Thats the setup my tuner has at the moment.

    But like you said trying to find a tuner that can tune the K04 to its best over here is hard. As good as my tuner is my map is very rough. I get boost surges at partial throttle (10% or so) which is getting very annoying. He will smooth this out next time im over with him but a simple thing like the wastegate closing fully at partial throttle is silly.

    The above is also one of the reasons Im switching to off the shelf tuning. The 2871 is tried and tested over in the states and Revo have afile to suit so ill be going with that.

    dont Revo do a file for the K04 now?

    Also one of the lads in the states told me to get in touch with a guy called Nick at Revo regarding the flash ill need. Anyone know what branch hes located at? Cant seem to find anythign about him on the net....
  14. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    ..because the UK is still in the dark ages don't ya know lol.

    You talking Stealth Racing?.. if so I think I'll give them a go too.
    Tufty not go on their dyno?
  15. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    I wouldn't touch the ITG personally, mate of mine had one on a throttle bodied Mk2 Gti and the foam degraded and got sucked into the intake in chunks. may have been a one off but do you really want to find out the hard way.

    as for the MAF.....how about 4" baby!! (Ford Lightning 5.4l V8 in case you were interested)

    [​IMG]

    lots of 630cc files available to suit the 2871. didn't know they (revo) did a 650cc
  16. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I want to find someone that can make the most of the mods in one go, not have to keep visiting for tweaks. I have seen my potential new tuner at work and he knows what each of the spikes in the maps mean so can tweak indavidual characterisics in and/or out.

    I know JCB is going to run a 3071r has an off the shelf Tapp tune, you list the mods and he sends the file,simples.

    I wonder if he can do the same for a hybrid, as i have the turbo coming for the right price and i do like the way it performs having had several.

    Who do you use currently?
    I want to use Vince from Stealth racing, he seriously knows his shiz
  17. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    The MAF based files you can buy from Unitronic, Eurodyne etc are linked to injector size.
    for example on a Eurodyne 630cc file you can run any turbo from a 28RS through to a 3071 (possibly even 3076 on sub 22psi).
    I think a Ko4 would be a bit light for 630's but have doubt it would run.

    any other mods like stroker block, cams, FMIC, water meth etc are just a bonus for getting the most out of the file. doesn't change the file you get

    (I am going with a 2871 rather than the 3071...until I get used to it anyway!)
  18. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah they only have a 2wd dyno ATM
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  19. davkav
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    davkav Member

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    Sorry 630 is what I meant. Id imagine the file is flexable to suit 650's if where the case.

    630 with 2871 yes but not with K04. I think they'd be a wee bit overkill :yes:
  20. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    My bad, i thought with all that work, a gt30 would be the min seeing as a 2871 isnt a massive improvement over a k04 style etc ( no dis respect meant)
  21. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    agreed, but depends on boost really.
    if you maxed out the flow on a Ko4 you could be cracking 300 (not advisable obviously) and teh injectors would be on a 60-75%+ duty cycle.
    lower boost and it would drop below 50% at WOT.

    They max out around 450bhp on the 3076

    doable if you wanted to keep the same tune for a later BT upgrade.

    why did you choose revo?
  22. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Hmmmm yeah that's what I'd heard about with foam filters!

    I've contacted Tapp and Unitronic who were helpful until I gave them the ECU numbers and then I heard nothing else from them!?.. even with more than a couple of reminders which is annoying.

    As for the 4" maf.. it isn't going to flow much with that fist stuck in it surely :jester:
  23. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    ring Chris direct, he gets lots of email I would imagine
    +1 613-225-8780

    fist is an optional extra!!

    yeah....probably should have gone 3071, power delivery is almost identical until you get over 7k rpm when the 3071 keeps on going up to 450+bhp.
    don't really want that much from a standing start (180bhp to 380+ is a big enough jump the way I drive!!)
  24. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Think of all the stuff you could lug around with that power !!!! LOL

    At least its a proper GT28, not an elim, as they lose a lot in the conversion IIRC

    Should be almost stock to drive normally TBH
  25. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    it was a t25 when I got it, mines now a Tial Vband exhaust housing.
    drops the spool by 2-400rpm and make it piss easy for me to switch the housing out to a 3076 in the future!
  26. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    So just to clarify. Aftermarket turbo needs TT 3" maf, TT 225 injectors, a FMIC and remap and we're all good?
  27. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    depends on turbo and map.
    aftermarket implies bigger than stock and TT injectors will run out of puff before even your entry level "big" turbo - the GT28rs
  28. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    OK so the list above plus what injectors?
  29. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    well you need to match your turbo choice to the correct injectors for whatever remap you go with.
    no point getting 440cc injectors and expecting them to fuel a Gt3071 any more than there is getting 630cc injectors for a KO4 hybrid.

    the injectors have a range of fuelling capability, you need to make sure that you are not going to run out of juice when the turbo is at full chat.
    that would be bad. think melting metal and you are somewhere close.

    how much power do you want?
    chose a turbo to deliver it
    match the turbo to a particular re-map or file
    match the injectors to that map.

    e.g.
    I set out to get high 300's without too much boost
    I went GT2871
    I decided on a Eurodyne file written for 630cc injectors. have no choice in the matter of injectors.
    If I try to run that file with smaller injectors it will run lean and melt my pistons and valves.
    If I run bigger injectors it will run rich and smoke like a chimney

    make sense?
  30. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    Yeah definitely. Is there a formula to matching injectors and turbos etc....
  31. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    I am sure there is.
    most turbos have a air flow rating at particular boost pressure

    I wouldn't know where to find it but I am sure if you posted what power and turbo you are looking at someone here will know.

    if its GT28 and above I can help
    not too sure of the various hybrid and T28 compatible ones, but it will depend on your choice of remap really
  32. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    Itll be a T3 of some type. Cosworth type one probably. And about 250hp
  33. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Delivered today..

    [​IMG]

    :)
  34. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    thats tiny! Will never work! :)
  35. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    If 250HP then why not save yourself loads of work and bolt a hybrid to the existing manifold mate?
  36. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Ha ha we'll see :gun2:
  37. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    because i know ill want more in the future!!!!
  38. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    I think a cossie T3 on a 1.8T making 250hp is going to be very dissapointing. The T3 doesnt spool till over 3k on a 2.0 cosworth, so its likely to be worse on the 1.8 audi lump.

    The small turbo escos is reported to be a much nicer car to drive than the big turbo version simply down to the fact that the turbo spools much earlier.
  39. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    much boost and lag is good surely lol
  40. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    Nealry at 500 posts now. To summarise, has the turbo been upgraded yet?

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