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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by voorhees, Sep 9, 2007.
whats people view on this terrible tragedy?
tragic accident closely followed by stupidity of monumental proportions
Exactly what i think.
Seemed an odd case from the beginning and the consequent circus that ensued at the biding of the Mc Canns hasn't quite added up to a lot of people.
A coupe of doctors with access to drugs wanted a night out alone without their kids. Give the kids some sleeping pills to ensure an uninterrupted evening and a tragic accident ensues as result of an overdose or unexpected reaction to the said drugs.
A child has undoubtedly lost its life as a result of its parents neglect due to them not being properly supervised at the very least. Any other (lower class) family would have been lambasted and lynched under the same circumstances.
Even if the Mcanns are innocent, you are right; if it had been lower class people what would Social Services and the police have to say about them leaving 3 young children on their own? What really annoys me is that between them they must earn £150K a year. Why the hell did they not have the babysitting service? Everyone says what caring people they are and how they live for their children but then why did they not pay the £20 or however much it was, to have them cared for by a babysittter? Surely they are not that naive that they are so trusting to think that everyone in the Algarve is safe. I was in the Algarve 2 days after she dissapeared. There was still people apparently leaving their children in the rooms, took the baby monitor down to the bar and the left the children on their own! Some people need their heads looking at!!
That's my thoughts too...
Regardless of any possible involvement by the parents...what sort of parents leave their young kids alone in a hotel room while they go off socialising?
Not good enough, is it?
As responsible parents, in the current state of the world, you just wouldn't...would you?
Something just doesn't add up.
My thoughts exactly
I totally agree, but to be fair they were only 30 feet away, if they'd been at the bottom of their garden having a BBQ would anyone be saying it was irresponsible?
It's not like they went into town clubbing.
Whatever your views no one can argue at the total incompetance of the Portugese police. Sounds like they're trying to cover their arses to me. Blood in the hire car? That could have been an innocent little cut or nosebleed.
Not too sure on the law in Portugal but can they be tried without a body?
But arent they saying they hired the car 25 days after she went missing?
How did the blood get there?
I know what you're saying Andy, though I think it boils down to knowledge and attention more so. Using such an example of a BBQ, the likelihood is that at such an event parents would have in the back of their mind: 'best check on the kids' or indeed the children would be involved with such an activity. Also in such scenarios, the event would be more private (usually) with either people having more opportunity to notice an intruder/attacker or there would be other 'trusting' people around such as friends/other families/people deemed to be responsible. Indeed you're right I doubt anyone would say it's irresponsible parenting - and yet another fright to the shift in culture and societies we live in today.
In this very sad story it is the point that they neglected responsibility, by removing any attention for their children (well assuming that is what happened who knows what to believe with the shift in this case at the moment).
I wish the world was safe enough to live in, after all it's only 30ft away like you state - it truly is sad. Stuff like this can happen anywhere. Take your attention off a child whilst in a high street shopping centre and he/she could be gone. So does it matter if it was 30ft away or 30miles away, there was a lack of attention to their needs and safety. I know that's a radical statement and it sounds a bit pedantic (by no means am I trying to make an example of your words) - but what point would a distance be acceptable? None - it comes down to the parents doing their best to secure the safety of their kids, either by child minder / crèche / family / taking them along or whatever. Leaving them on their own is a risk, regardless of time or distance.
Whatever happened out there, it's a tragedy.
But by that rationale, parents would have to take it in shifts to oversee the sleep of their children even in their own homes.
Whatever the situation, if something happens to your child someone will always point the finger at irresponsible parenting, but unfortunately for this not to be the case is impossible. We could have always been more vigilant after the fact.
If it was an abduction then it could have happened at 3am with the McCanns sleeping in the room next door. Or during the day on the beach. Would this have been irresponsible?
At the very least this has been a wake up call for parents everywhere, but what we're supposed to do about it god only knows. I certainly don't plan to bring my boys up wrapped in cotton wool. We can only hope no one targets our own kids, because if they do there's very little we could do to stop another tragedy.
also, what is interesting-according the BBC News 24, is that whilst they were out dining, they actually only saw the children twice between them. They had "friends" that allegedly checked on them. I think that father was the last to see her at 9.15pm and then they returned to the room at 10.10pm and she was gone.
Being very cynical, but also entitled to my own opinion; have they suddenly returned to the UK so that they will have their family around them if they are to a) be arrested or b) be charged. This way their twins could be cared for by extended family.
I hope that they are innocent but due to my profession, I am am not naive and often you do have to realise that there are wicked people out there, regardless of their social status.
I hear what you say...
But in your own home you probably have secure locks with a known number of keys and a known number of people with access to them...you may also have a security chain/bolt.
It's likely to be as secure as you can make it...for you and your kids.
On holiday, in a hotel or holiday let, you have a key or key card with unknown copies...and with unknown people having access to them.
Personally, I see that very differently...and I for one, would NOT leave a hotel room/holiday let without a trusted adult in attendance at all times...
If nothing else but to make sure that the kids didn't wake up, look for their parents and decide to open the door and go look for them.
Home and on holiday are incomparable in my mind.
But...each to their own...
I have been getting flash backs all this time of that incident where a girl killed her boyfriend and then blamed it on an apparent road rage incident a few years ago. She made a huge song and dance about finding the killer then it turned out to be her.
All this publicity has been way over the top and just seems like a diversion.
They're not running away now they're suspects? Whatever!
There's no smoke without fire, and bloody smoke is pretty conclusive to me.
I know what you're saying Andy. Also you are totaly correct, people will always look for someone to blame. In such circumstances of being in bed and something happening at the likes of 3am - what can you do? It's like anything, if someone wants something bad enough they will have it. I can only agree with Glen's point on home security and the likes of there.
It's all about providing the most relevant supervision/attention to the best standard possible. Based on the initial story we're given - in my opinion they did not provide enough supervision in a 'secure' enough environment. By secure I mean being alien to their natural surroundings. Once more I don't mean to sound like i'm picking at your words though if in an open space such as a beach etc etc it goes without saying that any parent would keep a close eye on any young child - think of the natural hazards (water/sharps on the beach) let alone the possibilities of a prowler. At the same point I agree about not being wrapped up in cotton wool, and providing children the right to learn through activity and evolving with their peers - perhaps that comes down more so to the age/maturity of the child. At what point should they be allowed to cross the road without holding your hand? and then progress to making such a venture on their own? A tough balance to get correct. Kids of that age are pure and innocent, they believe that everyone is safe and will provide love and care.
I haven't had the priviledge of being blessed with kids myself yet, and perhaps my views would be different - I'm not sure. Indeed it's a wake up call and you're right, how could you stop it? There would always be the situation of: if only this, or if only that. I guess ya just gotta try and do what ya think is best on all accounts.
Just to add .......... they were not 30-feet away from the hotel. The bar they were reported as being at is actually more like 1/2 mile away.
I guess the distance is irrelevant as leaving such young children unattended in an unlocked room while downstairs at a hotel bar is pretty irresponsible.
I think the McCanns will be well aware that they have acted in a very irresponsible and selfish way leaving 3 children under three alone in an apartment while they enjoyed themselves.
The people I feel sorry for are the twins and poor Madeline god only knows whats happened to her.
Its interesting to note, with all this *we're in the EU *********, how archaic and backward the Portugese legal system is and how they have named the McCanns as suspects but not charged them, which not only wouldnt of happened in this country but something that would stop all these nasty rumours leaking out...
I just hope for the sake of humanity that they are innocent as thousands have devoted thier lives to find little maddy i.e. parents like myself. What faith will be left in trusting anyones word if they are found guilty. Lets not forget poor Maddy in this, we can only prey she is still alive but that hope is diminishing...
Goodness only knows what the Portugese police are up to. That British guy they named as a suspect early on has basically had his life ruined.
Now the McCanns have returned to the UK and are asking the press to repsect their privacy, after four months of prostituting themselves to the press?
Personally I have reached news fatigue with this one and lost interest very rapidly.
from reading the above and my own thoughts on it i suspect what happened is they sedated the kids then managed to overdose Maddie. the parents, fearing for their careers, hid the body and cried abduction.
if they are so innocent then why refuse to answer 40 questions put to them by the police, the reason given by a relative was the questions were either ones that had been answered before or ones that had no relevence. now if i'd have been in their position i would answer every question put to me in the hope that some detail might be relevent, the only person who wouldn't do the same would be someone with something to hide.
and as for leaving them alone in a room, what if a fire broke out. it's alright saying they were only 30ft (or half a mile) away, the distance is irrelivent, they were left alone protected only by circumstance. whenever we've gone away the kids always come with us, it's accepted now that kids will fall asleep by the parents when the entertainment starts. maybe these two thought it was a little lower class to do that, i don't know, but i do know there's no shame taking your kids with you to the bar, restaurant etc.
and yes, if it was some chavvy family the social services would have been waiting for them at the airport.
I try to avoid "the news" as much as I can in day to day life. But there has been no avoiding this story.
I don't know what happened of course, and I genuinely don't have an opinion on the McCanns themselves. But every time I see more media coverage of this, my overwhelming thought is one of huge sympathy for the parents of other children that have gone missing or died over the intervening four months.
To see this in the media all the time must be a constant heartbreak to them. It must feel like the world is saying that little Madeleine is more important than the loss of their own child. Otherwise their child would have blanket coverage in the news too, and the world would be praying for them as well.
I love my little boy more than anything in the world. If anything had happened to him, the last thing I would want would be to see more and more coverage droning on, of the McCanns, of the Portugese police. All of it.
When did this become more important than anything else?
Half the trouble here is that we're taking in the media's interpretation of what being an "Aguida" or "Suspect" in Portuguese law actually means. Their laws are an unknown quantity to most of us so the fact their listed as suspects may be less sinister than we think, or the press are incinuating! Without this suspect status the police cannot probe too much in their questions, they can now though. Also, we dont know what they're being investigated for, murder? Wasting police time? Being irresponsible parents? We'll only know after things are settled down and the truths can be said, in the meantime im keeping an open mind.
There are so many strange things in this case.
They find blood in the car and yet the family still are using the car. If they gave the girl too much sleeping pills how would they find blood?
I dont know that doctors would give someone an overdose unless she has some sort of reaction to the pills either.
Then how would they know where to store the body for over 3 weeks when there were loads of people searching the area you would think she wold have been found.
I think we will never know what happened. But if the parents did do it they will feel bad enough but if they didnt and they get put in jail I think you would go insane!!
Plus think of all the money that was raised for this! Is this what is paying for their campaign and villa etc.?
I've changed my mind - I do have an opinion of the McCanns.
I think there is a slight whiff of Heather Mills about Kate McCann.
I don't know why I think that.
Well if they did kill her, the blood may be in the car from moving the body 25 days (or more) after the event.
I know what you mean!
I also find his actions odd...very measured with his comments, with little or no emotion.
Not what you'd expect when your little girl had gone missing...
I'm glad its not just me! I made comments about their odd behavior not long after she went 'missing', but everyone said I was cynical and callous.
Me too! I just didn't realise who she was reminding me of.
Same here - I said from day 1 there was something wrong with his reaction and the way he seemed to appear....
Renault have just brought out a new people carrier. It's so spacious, so luxurious, so comfortable you don't even notice the kids are in the back.
It's called The Renault McCann
well just to add further speculation....latest goss is that it is NOT blood found in the car, it is hair and not just a few strands either. Found with another bodily specimen, where the spare wheel was.
Also, I agree with Dave's theory that they possibly used Phenergan to sedate the children and she overdosed, perhaps fell out of bed or had an accident. THey would obviously be up s**t creep without a paddle, had they taken her to hospital and found to have overdosed her. Medical careers bye bye.
Had anyone actually seen Maddy that day she was "abducted"? They could have had hours to move her body......to the chapel....oh, I am thinking worst case scenario I know!!
Also, if she was abducted by lets say a paedophile, why did they not take the one or both of the younger two? They are less likely to remember their parents in years to come etc.
Oh I am such a gossip monger, but as someone previously said above, they have asked for all of this attention in this situation.
Shows something about my sense of humour that i laughed at that
Hair in the boot? what like a stray hair that could have been on their luggage for weeks?
I think even the most inept & naive would not still be driving about in a hire car that they used to dispose of the body.
And if it's such crucial evidence why has the car not been impounded by the police?
This whole thing stinks of police arse covering, "well we're completely incompetant, were unable to secure the scene, didn't release vital information at a time when it would have been most useful etc etc, but at least we can pin it on someone (guilty or not) and claim Portugal is still safe for the tourists."
If it was an abduction there are a million reasons why they would have only taken one child. If it was a paedophile ring I doubt they'd be too worried about the kid remembering her parents. I don't think such scum would have had plans for a normal parental upbringing.
What on earth do they need that much for?! At least they're not allowed to use it for legal fees.
Apparently it was a clump of hair, not just a single strand or two. Possibly fallen from a decomposing body.
The McCanns are considering getting their own forensic team to examine the renault car which they have hidden somewhere in Portugal,gets curiouser and curiouser by the minute.
Heard on the news yesterday - the authorities want to read Kate McCann's diary.