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S3 PE1820 big turbo build

Welly Mar 29, 2011

  1. JD09

    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    Looking good! Since I'm moving closer to you (not related to the IHI build lol) I will come and clean that engine bay for you at some point! It's all it needs!!
     
  2. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Huh? Where you moving to dude?
     
  3. JD09

    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    London, so technically closer than Cheshire!
     
  4. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Oh yeah, just down the road then......lol!
     
  5. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    that link is a twin scroll IHI welly
    IHI outlet flange is all I call it..
     
  6. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    that link is a twin scroll IHI welly
    IHI outlet flange is all I call it..
     
    kelk11 likes this.
  7. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Yeah - it was the outlet flange that I was after, but couldn't find one alone :(
     
  8. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I drew mine up and had laser profiles cut.
     
  9. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Welly, what are you doing about a fuel pump d00de? wouldn't trust the intank for 630's

    <tuffty/>
     
  10. wibble111

    wibble111 needs to scratch the itch

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    Bloody hell mate you move nearly as fast as your cars going to, pity you dont move as quick updating your picture in your sig :eyebrows:
     
  11. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    Or your Simpsons quotes!!! ;)
     
  12. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Well if he is busy doing the car he obviously doesn't have the time... I dunno... no pleasing some people ;P

    <tuffty/>
     
  13. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Can't win can I?? lol
     
  14. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Going to play it by ear mate, simple as that. We'll see how the in tank handles it, and if it requires an in-line being installed, then so be it.
     
  15. s17atw

    s17atw Member

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    I ran a pe1820 on my mk2 for 4 years @ 1.5bar, loved it...
    good choice!
     
  16. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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  17. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    nice little write up in readers rides in the latest PVW Welly - forgot the mention that.
     
  18. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Huh?
     
  19. Dane

    Dane Had an 8L S3, a B5 RS4 now I have a B8 S4

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    I'll be getting that later then
     
  20. JD09

    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    "SMOKIN&#8217; POT
    It may have taken Ashley Philpott longer than most to get his Polo where it is today, but with 340bhp on tap from an IHI&#8217;d 1.8T he certainly isn&#8217;t hanging around any more."

    Issue 139 Of Performance VW Magazine
     
  21. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    OK, fuel pump arrived today in BIBLICALLY good time. I am so so impressed with the company sending them out. Lets hope the pump is as impressive.

    Debating on fuel filter options. Space is tight under the bonnet as we know. Tuffty uses an Ibiza fuel filter on his build, as it is smaller an fits easier.

    However, I am considering using something along these lines. Small and from what I am led to believe, efficient. I have a mate using one on his motor, and has been for some time. No need to replace, when it's dirty you take it off, open it up and clean it out... Sounds tempting to me.

    Anyone on here used a filter along these lines. Will be a much better fit in the engine bay....

    Link:Motorsport Performance Car Inline Petrol Fuel Filter on eBay (end time 08-May-11 10:48:05 BST)
     
  22. MUSH

    MUSH MUSH Developments Ltd.

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    Thats obviously cheap, but if the quality is good may be a good option!
     
  23. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Yeah, not specifically that one, but something along those lines. I might buy one for the money and see what's what with it.

    If it's **** I'll just bin it.
     
  24. MUSH

    MUSH MUSH Developments Ltd.

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    Ill be watching mate, as i have the same dilemma to overcome pretty soon!
     
  25. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Not convinced it would be suitable for high pressure fuel pumps mate...

    Try these...

    SYTEC UNIVERSAL FUEL PUMP INJECTION FILTER & BRACKET | eBay UK
    Motorsport fuel injection filter | eBay UK
    FUEL INJECTION PUMP FILTER CATERHAM 7 WESTFIELD DAX | eBay UK
    Seat IBIZA 1.8T (04 on) Fuel Filter | eBay UK

    <tuffty/>
     
  26. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    or a proven, Oe reliable part - aka seat ibiza cupra in-line filter
     
  27. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Why not just put the 044 in the tank and keep the stock filter where it is?
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    The 044 Welly has isn't an intank pump, its an inline one...

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
  30. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    That doesn't look anything like the intank setup of an S3 from what I remember... seems a bit of a bodge... the pump works fine inline with the intank acting as a scavenge pump

    <tuffty/>
     
  31. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Yeh, obv thats an S4 pump, but its the same principle to fitting any in tank pump, be it an 044 or a walbro 255 or whatever.
     
  32. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    That SRS thread title says it all..... That is why I won't be doing it. Why give myself extra hassle. I fitted the pump in about 3 mins today - piece of piss to do. Needs to be wired in, however I don't believe that's a massive issue...

    Just been out and tightened the unions on my oil return line. Turns out the company that made them hadn't tightened them completely - d'oh. Should have check them myself before fitting really. Meh.
     
  33. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Heh, just because one particular person had a bit of trouble installing the pump doesnt mean its a bad idea...

    You've basically introduced another point of failure without deleting the previous one, and the OEM pump is surely going to act as a flow restriction?

    You've also doubled the load on the electrical circuitry, which could potentially mean a big voltage drop to the pump, reducing its effectiveness?
     
  34. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Yeah, that's a fair point, however I don't see the need to crack out the in tank pump just to fit a pump in there. It's got hassle written all over IMO and that's why I have avoided it. That's the bottom line basically.

    In my opinion, you reduce the failure potential. The in line pump isn't being installed to remove a point of failure per se.

    Asking the in tank pump to fire through enough fuel to feed 630s at 3 BAR is a big ask. The in line pump will reduce the pressure required by the in tank pump meaning it will be doing less work, prolonging it's life.

    It won't be acting as a flow restriction, as the in tank will be pumping fuel through to the inline pump which will then send it up to the fuel rail.

    The inline fuel pump is a tried and tested solution used on many many builds in the past, and will be in the future.
     
  35. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    plenty of BT cars running with inline booster pumps fed by in tank pumps...
    restriction my arse!

    voltage drop... laughable.. Do you really have no clue?!?!?!
     
  36. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Your still limited by the overall flow rating of the intank pump though, albeit this will increase when effectively running at 0bar of pressure, its still a restriction over what the 044 can deliver on its own when properly gravity fed or submerged. It may well be that its not an issue for 400hp, but it is still a restriction.

    As for voltage drop, how is it laughable? The stock wiring can see voltage drop to the standard pump, due to simple physics and the natural resistance of a piece of copper wire, especially when running high fuel pressures and/or lots of boost which results in the pumps current demand increasing. Running two pumps means twice the current, so theres potential for a large voltage drop.

    Ofcourse you may well be installing a second relay and nice fat wires to the new pump, in which case its quite likely to be fine, but that hasnt been mentioned.
     
  37. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Best way is to simply test with a volt meter under boost at the end of the day - easy enough.
     
  38. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    and you have measured this of course so have hard factual data?

    My seat ibiza runs an S3 in tank pump, which feeds two 044 bosch pumps.. by your reckoning it would never work... but by some miracle its seems to have worked just fine. Go figure ;)

    fuel pump delivery at no load (pressure) is significantly higher than when pumping into a 3bar fpr
     
  39. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I've never specifically measured the pump, but i've measured other circuits in the car. The headlamps for instance are wired with 1.5mm cable draw less than 5A and manage to drop nearly a volt between the battery and the bulb.

    The standard wiring for the pump is also 1.5mm in size and protected by a 15A fuse.

    The datasheet for an 044 indicates its maximum draw is 15.5A, however this is likely to be just before the lockout pressure, rather than 3 bar.

    Some graphs:

    http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/bosch_044_flow_chart.gif
    http://www.jayracing.com/images/products/Jay Racing Pro Series 044 vs Bosch 044.jpg

    Both of these suggest at 3 bar the pump will draw around 10A, and once under 1.5 bar of boost the draw will increase by an amp or so.

    The OEM pump will probably draw slightly less, lets say 7A.

    So your suggesting that in wellys case, drawing 17-18A thru a 15A fuse and wiring designed to run 7A's worth of standard pump isnt going to cause any voltage drop?

    And in your case, 2x044 and a intank probably drawing over 25A is again working perfectly thru the standard 15A fuse and 1.5mm wiring and your still getting a nice healthy 14v at the pump...?
     
  40. S3 Nattie

    S3 Nattie Quattro ist für sissies

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    I love your technical post. Something to actually look at and work out
     

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