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Remap and insurance

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by marctwo, May 24, 2005.

?

Should I buy or Say Goodbye

  1. Yes

    138.5%
  2. No

    130.8%
  1. marctwo
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    marctwo Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    Talking to a colleague about getting my car remapped I mentioned that I could not afford the insurance increase. He said that I would be the only person he knew who actually declared it as it could not be detected. A friend says it could be detected and would not get it done unless it was fully declared.

    I am not interested in names but just thought it would be interesting to see how many people declare their remap vs how many don't. I don't want to get anyone into trouble over this!
    #1
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  3. paul_brad
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    paul_brad Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    It would be interesting to see the final outcome on this,
    and if anyone has any horror stories of having a remap, not declaring it, then crashing and having your insurance voided.

    Being a scaredy-cat, I stay away from this sort of thing as I don't have the balls to not declare things. Everyone seems to have RS4 alloys on their A3/S3s - are you declaring them??
    #2
  4. benk
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    benk Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    I spoke to a place recently who said their customers don't declare their chipped cars to their insurers, and the guy said there's no point, as only the company who put the chip on there can tell. His words were "unless someone drives it and notices a speed improvement, they can't tell if it's been chipped - Audi can't tell so how could the insurers? If they came to us we wouldn't say anything because you're a customer".
    Interesting stuff.
    #3
  5. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [May 24, 2005]
    more interesting is the legal point of view... people not declaring performance mods are driving without insurance... not good in my book, but I have to agree for standard equipment it's a bit wierd, are you supposed to declare your alcantara seats? they were a cost option were they not?

    Think it's very hard to draw the line, so I can see how people don't but I would declare any performance mod on my car it's just not worth the risk, and one of the reasons I've not had a remap yet.
    #4
  6. imported_monkeytrousers
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    imported_monkeytrousers Guest

    [May 24, 2005]
    Of course they can tell!

    Believe me, if you are involved in a major crash the insurers send in loss adjusters. Their job is to look for reasons to reduce or refuse a claim. They can and will examine the ECU to see if a remap has been done.

    If you have a remap and don't declare it you are not insured which is illegal and stupid.

    If you can afford an Audi and the normal insurance then you can afford to pay a little more for the insurance on top of the remap.

    I feel very strongly about this because I nearly had a total loss claim refused a few years ago because the insurer said I hadn't declared something. Fortunately I DID declare it (but they hadn't amended their records) and they had to back down but it showed me how dogged they are when you're talking a big claim.
    #5
  7. Masterm8fo
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    Masterm8fo Warmonger

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    [May 24, 2005]
    i have declared mine in advance and am covered for it from today - not worth the risk when u consider the payouts from insurance companies in personal injury claims - could bankrupt you for life if caught - not worth it for the sake of a few hundred quid - if an insurance company was looking at paying out a few million quid in a road death/disability case I am sure they would invest in testing the ECU map regardless of cost even if the car was a write-off as at the end of the day it could remove their liability and save them money

    also have covered for 18'' RS4's even tho i do not have them yet - will be buying soon
    #6
  8. Masterm8fo
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    Masterm8fo Warmonger

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    [May 24, 2005]
    although if to the 'best of your knowledge' the car is not modified when you purchase it and then it turns out the previous owner had a remap done and did not tell you at point of sale what would it mean ??
    #7
  9. marctwo
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    marctwo Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    If you can afford an Audi and the normal insurance then you can afford to pay a little more for the insurance on top of the remap.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In my case I have not had a remap because of the insurance increase. I would not describe 100% increase (£900 to £1800) as "...a little more...". Believe me, if it were "a little more" then I would be down AMD in a heartbeat!
    #8
  10. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    From what I can gather,if you were to have an accident the insurers/assessors/police would have to have grounds to suspect that the accident was down to something outwith the realms of a standard car to even investigate the car.

    In other words,if a standard looking 1.0 Metro has a crash at 120mph,they will have grounds to suspect something's fishy.

    Exterior performance mods are obviously far easier to detect and give an insurance company an 'out',but how many people declare a back box,for example.

    It's an area I'm interested in as I quite fancy a superchip in my company car but I know,if informed,my employer would almost definitely say no.
    #9
  11. Masterm8fo
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    Masterm8fo Warmonger

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    [May 24, 2005]
    what happens in the case of causing death by driving ?? surely an investigation would be carried out ?
    #10
  12. jediknight
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    jediknight Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    they dont check simple as that... my dad worked at a body shop for over 5 years and never once had a problem where they found a chip or even checked for one!!

    big wheels, turbos and superchargers...yes they did have cases where the insurance company failed to pay out on these but never with chips
    #11
  13. ianhg
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    ianhg Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    cant fault greenlight for my modding,only have to pay more for engine mods. am paying £1200 for a revo'd S3 at 22!
    #12
  14. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    they dont check simple as that... my dad worked at a body shop for over 5 years and never once had a problem where they found a chip or even checked for one!!

    big wheels, turbos and superchargers...yes they did have cases where the insurance company failed to pay out on these but never with chips

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly my point.
    'Visible' mods are asking for trouble but chips are unlikely ever to be detected.
    They just don't have the time to inspect the 'internals' of a car unless the circumstances of the accident lead them to believe the car has been tuned.
    If they were to check for chips,then they would also be checking cars for increased compressions or fancy cams.
    Highly highly unlikely.

    I'm not sticking up for non-declaration,I'm just looking at the facts.
    #13
  15. Masterm8fo
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    Masterm8fo Warmonger

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    [May 24, 2005]
    Ian - re greenlight - boy am i glad u posted today !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1luvu.gif

    i just called them and and have renewed with the remap for the price i was paying standard !!!!

    saved me a packet mate !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    just cancelled with elephant
    #14
  16. jediknight
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    jediknight Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    in my mind its not 'if i can get away with it', its 'does it really matter'

    my corrado was mildly modded with aftermarket suspension, manifold, exuahst. in my mind those are mods.. actual bits of hardware that would cost more to replace or could cause the car to handle / drive differently and so i declared all mods.

    the remap is just a bit of software and has no impact on the repair cost of the car or IMO the handling of the car... the way you drive is an individual thing and someone with a standard car could drive like an idiot where as a remap driver could drive like the pope... why charge the remaped one more????

    doesnt make sense to me!
    #15
  17. imported_monkeytrousers
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    imported_monkeytrousers Guest

    [May 24, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    they dont check simple as that... my dad worked at a body shop for over 5 years and never once had a problem where they found a chip or even checked for one!!

    big wheels, turbos and superchargers...yes they did have cases where the insurance company failed to pay out on these but never with chips

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly my point.
    'Visible' mods are asking for trouble but chips are unlikely ever to be detected.
    They just don't have the time to inspect the 'internals' of a car unless the circumstances of the accident lead them to believe the car has been tuned.
    If they were to check for chips,then they would also be checking cars for increased compressions or fancy cams.
    Highly highly unlikely.

    I'm not sticking up for non-declaration,I'm just looking at the facts.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree. And I agree with Jedi's comments too, the risk is small but I have personally had to fight a non-declaration claim years ago and it's not nice at all (fortunately I won the case but I won't ever put myself in that position again).

    When taking out an insurance policy you are always asked "Have there been any modifications". If you say "no" when the answer should be "yes" then you're running a risk. This is my main argument for declaring.

    Also it's no secret that VAG 1.8T engines are easily remapped to great effect. If I were an insurer looking to avoid paying out a high claim and the car was a 1.8T I'd get the ECU checked to see if there was a non-declared remap.
    #16
  18. ianhg
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    ianhg Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ian - re greenlight - boy am i glad u posted today !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1luvu.gif

    i just called them and and have renewed with the remap for the price i was paying standard !!!!

    saved me a packet mate !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    just cancelled with elephant

    [/ QUOTE ]

    glad to be of service. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #17
  19. Masterm8fo
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    Masterm8fo Warmonger

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    [May 24, 2005]
    or if i look at it the other way....my remap is being done for free !!
    #18
  20. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    If you've got a chip or remap, you should delcare it. Can you imagine what it would be like if it were discovered after a big claim? No insurance cover, and lots of bills heading your way, it could ruin you for life for the sake of afew ££ now.

    My brother was involved in a motorbike accident whilst he held a restricted license; I know that the insurance company checked that the bike had not been derestricted...

    Kev.
    #19
  21. imported_daryl
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    imported_daryl Guest

    [May 24, 2005]
    My friend has just renewed his insurance. He found a company (I can get the name if any of you want) that insures your car depending on the BHP. All of his modifications are also insured. i.e. you have miltek exhaust - you right off the car - you'll get a new car with a miltek exhaust.

    You see, he has a Ltd ed 4Motion which comes with the bigger wheels, sports suspension and CC body kit. If he had an accident and he was insured with elephant lets say, he would just gat back a standard 4 motion i.e. without the ltd ed stuff. This I thought was a bit@h. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif

    However, the guy from this BHP insurance company said TECHNICALLY if you put anything on your car that is different from when it comes out of the factory then it is a modification. This includes brake pads from Halfords!!

    FYI this ins company quoted him £10 more than the lowest competitor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
    #20
  22. imported_daryl
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    imported_daryl Guest

    [May 24, 2005]
    I think it was greenlight but I didnt want to say until I checked with my friend.
    #21
  23. imported_jamesgraham
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    imported_jamesgraham Guest

    [May 24, 2005]
    My friend has worked in the auto repair business for thirty years, dealing with loss adjusters nearly every day.At no time has any of the vehicles that have been repaired or written off been inspected to the degree of finding if they have been modded by chipping or fast cams etc.Obviously if they are visible it's a different matter.The likelihood of any body getting there insurance cancelled because of chipping is very very remote!
    #22
  24. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    What if one party in the accident is killed?

    Then the vehicle is removed by the police and inspected by them and the insurance company, and reported on in a coroners court.

    It's the worst type of accident and the one most likely to hurt you if you have had an accident in which the other party is killed and your insurance has been voided because of your mod.

    As for the likely hood being very very remote, I agree, How many claims has your 'mate' been involved with when one of the drivers has been killed? I can assure you that the police and insurance companies look alot harder in these cases, infact, it's quite unlikely that your mate would even see these cars as they are not likely to be repaired.

    How would you feel if you had voided your insurance and you've killed someone?

    I'd feel suicidal.

    Can afford the mod but not the insurance? Don't do it.

    Kev.
    #23
  25. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    If you can live with the risk, then do.

    I just know that I couldn't.

    Kev.
    #24
  26. imported_gek
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    imported_gek Guest

    [May 24, 2005]
    erm....think you've gone a bit off track.

    If you kill someone, having no insurance makes not one jot of difference, the person is still dead.
    #25
  27. justin_1ss
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    justin_1ss Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    when i had my accident in my A4 and claimed on my insurance, even though my car had been modified (suspension and exhaust) it did not seem to bother the repairer nor the insurance company, i know this is only one example but worth saying!
    #26
  28. jediknight
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    jediknight Member

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    [May 24, 2005]
    but how can they prove the remap contributed towards a crash??

    would i be driving like a perfect gent the day before the remap and a chav the day after so therefore im a bigger risk??

    same car.. same driver so im not paying a premium for the fact my car runs smoother and accellerates faster
    #27
  29. imported_monkeytrousers
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    imported_monkeytrousers Guest

    [May 25, 2005]
    gek, I think we're at cross purposes.

    I think the conclusion is that it is right to declare it, but the risk of being penalised for not delcaring it is low and a risk some people think is worth taking, others not.
    #28
  30. imported_gek
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    imported_gek Guest

    [May 25, 2005]
    Fair enough, on reading it back I seem to have been a bit over zealous.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #29
  31. imported_Spin140
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    imported_Spin140 Guest

    [May 25, 2005]
    A good comapny to try is 'Adrian Flux' they accept all mods and were very reasonable as they specialise in modified vehicles - I got a quote from Greenlight but they were 24% more expensive in my case - £689 as opposed to £555 with Adrian Flux. I know alot depends on the individual age etc.. but both G/light and A/flux are reputable companies.


    Give them a call, might be worth the extra few quid rather than worrying about it .
    #30
  32. imported_jamesgraham
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    imported_jamesgraham Guest

    [May 25, 2005]

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    No, the point being made was that the police will impound a car involved in a death crash for a thorough examination. The crash investigators may detect the remap but if it's not them the insurers will have a go.

    If your insurance is declared void not only have you broken the law and face a fine, you are personally responsible for damages if you were to blame.

    Taking risks with insurance is not worth it.


    Monkeytrousers i'm afraid its just not done, by the police crash investigators or insurance companies,.Even if there is a fatality.
    #31
  33. imported_Wicked666
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    imported_Wicked666 Guest

    [May 25, 2005]
    Do you need to declare using optimax over supermarket fuel?

    A bit far fetched I know but there is nothing that shows you've had a remap so can't justify the extra £300 or so my premium will go up!

    If I have a crash it'll prob be down to the other driver, not my remap.
    #32
  34. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 25, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    bottom line, you're driving without insurance

    in fact, whatever you're paying for insurance is dead money as it isnt doing a thing for you - why bother having it at all!?!

    no better than the 'geezer' down the road who sticks a 2ltr 16v engine in his nova and it still says 1.4 on the log book

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Totally agree /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bravo.gif
    #33
  35. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [May 25, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    No, the point being made was that the police will impound a car involved in a death crash for a thorough examination. The crash investigators may detect the remap but if it's not them the insurers will have a go.

    If your insurance is declared void not only have you broken the law and face a fine, you are personally responsible for damages if you were to blame.

    Taking risks with insurance is not worth it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My point was that the poster was using an example where death was involved, when this was not needed in the context of this thread.

    If you kill someone, he or she is still dead. The question of whether your insurance is valid or not is a moot point.

    I just thought it was a bit harsh an example.

    Sounded a bit like the "think about the children" anti-speeding campaigners.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, perhaps a harsh example, but unfortunately it can happen, and also very unfortunately a scenario I am familar with.

    Perhaps I should have phrased my post better (sorry it was late) but I think Monkeytrousers cleared it up nicely.

    Kev.
    #34
  36. cybrey
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    cybrey Member

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    [May 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Monkeytrousers i'm afraid its just not done, by the police crash investigators or insurance companies,.Even if there is a fatality.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is and has been done. In fact in the cases were someone has been charged the insurers never see the car until after the trial.

    After a fatal car accident my 'friends' car was impounded and gone over by the accident investigators. The findings of which were then presented at the court 8 months later. You wouldn't believe the amount of detail they go into about the car. ( and yes they goto the chip level)

    This topic comes up about once every six months and stirs up the same emotions. The majority of people spew out the sensible answer in that

    "If you can't afford the insurance don't get the remap done."
    #35
  37. imported_gek
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    imported_gek Guest

    [May 26, 2005]
    Where does that leave remaps as opposed to rechips where the chip is not physically touched and therefore it's not obvious it is not standard?

    Revo wouldn't claim that the code was undetectable if it was, would they?
    #36
  38. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [May 26, 2005]
    If the chip was physically changed like before serial port maps then yes it they will know instantly because the ecu tamper seal will be broken.

    In an undrivable written off car, there is no way they can proove that a couple of ecu blocks have been modified come full boost wide open throttle.

    If you have a switchable program how can they proove you use it all the time and not just on track days etc - they cant, especially if you switch it back with your dying breath.

    Im not condoning not declaring a map etc but its all getting a little far fetched.

    Most post accident invesigations look at tyre condition, brakes etc etc and yes the insurers loss adjuster looks for get outs, like an undeclared tyre valves.

    If every part of the car is factory stock, i dont see how he can see the car has a new boost/fuel map with an immobile car.
    #37
  39. Masterm8fo
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    Masterm8fo Warmonger

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    [May 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Forgot to mention original quote from Flux was only £443 per year for the modded vehicle but once I added my wife as a named driver with an SP30 it shot up to £555,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    off topic - i added my mum as secondary driver and saved over £100!

    woo hoo!

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I had an ex girlfriend on my policy last year as she saved me 400 quid
    we split up 2 years ago...
    #38
  40. imported_VaulterTim
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    imported_VaulterTim Guest

    [May 26, 2005]
    I'm just gonna go grab a bird off the street this afternoon and stick her on my insurance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    #39
  41. marctwo
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    marctwo Member

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    [May 26, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm just gonna go grab a bird off the street this afternoon and stick her on my insurance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Never heard it refered to as 'insurance' before /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #40

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