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Redemption - APR Stage I v2 Review

Discussion in 'RS3 Forum' started by MBK, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Tonight I threw my RS badges in the hedge and fitted these instead*:

    [​IMG]

    Because if any car I’ve owned deserved the title umm…Flipping Quick the RS3 is now it. I still can’t quite get my mind around how 2 remaps from the same company can be so markedly different. It’s been either wet or slightly damp here since the installation and yet the RS3 has remained quite comfortably a sub 4 second 0-60 car. It will even beat the Audi claimed 0-60 of 4.6 seconds without using launch, but more about that later. I can’t give you the full dry weather figures yet but I hope the subjective write up gives you an idea of just how different this version of the map is.

    The v2 Map


    Let’s start at the beginning with the installation process. With the ECU now unlocked the v2 map was installed via the OBD port, the whole process probably took about 20 minutes. So the first thing to say is a big thank you to Gwent VW and APR for getting the new map installed on both RS3s so quickly. The version 2 map still wasn’t ‘on the portal’ on Tuesday so if you are having an APR map make sure you get the latest file. It was therefore slightly odd to watch the ghostly hand of Keith from APR remotely controlling the laptop attached to my car. The map was installed without any further delay and I was soon away for a test run.

    [​IMG]

    If you have any concerns about being able to switch the car back to standard this should allay them. Your friendly remapper will be able to switch the map back to standard without too much fuss in less than 20 minutes. All they need is the laptop so that could be done almost anywhere.

    D for Different

    Driving the car in D either at 30 mph or 70mph is now a quite different experience. Where before when standard or with the v1.2 map the throttle response was quite lazy and required a bit of a push now the response is instant. Instant to the point you need to take a bit more care in the 30 zones, the mildest tickle of the throttle adds 5mph. What is remarkable is that even with mild speed increases you get a lovely reassuring push in the back. The best way I can describe the to you is D is now like S mode in the standard car.

    If you’re in traffic on the motorway at say 50 mph and spot a gap, just in D, you can exploit that instantly. The v2 map adds a tautness that was missing before. Where I’d have felt the need to reach for gear lever for S mode there is now no need, the power delivery is instant.

    Tantalising Turbo


    Keep your foot planted to firewall and what happens next will, if you are anything like me, result in an ear to ear grin. The torque push from the v1.2 map is joined by an equally ferocious rise in the revs. There is a waspish, angry rasp to the (yes standard) exhaust as 7100 rpm limit approaches. At this point the standard RS3 would give a slight sluuuurrr in the revs follwed by a ‘whummppp’ greeting every gear change. The v1.2 map reduced the slur but kept the whuummp as the torque of the next gear took over. With the v2 map this is replaced by an absolute whip crack to the gear change, no delay whatsoever and quite a solid feel of driveline shunt to the shift. The following whip crack shifts arrive much sooner too… (I will of course get the Go Pro camera to capture this when the weather picks up again, but for best sound the open rear door needs to be fitted.)

    The best way to describe the difference is that with the v1.2 map the RS3 felt as if it had a bigger torque laden engine using brawn to push it along. Now, well this might sound strange, but it’s like they turned the turbo back on. You get a great big low end shove and the high end fizz of revs too. Oh and that waspish rasp at 6-7k rpm made me lust for the turbo back exhaust (Even if I’m a bit long in the tooth for a cherry bomb and live in the ‘burbs).

    Sting like a bee


    S mode, with the Sport button depressed for more aural drama, moves the game on once more. A full power launch sees the RS3 squat sharply backwards as before but as the revs pass 4K the increase in front grip and pull is as marked as the initial push sensation. Each gear change is greeted with a more noticeable mechanical shunt to simulate a gear change, ok it’s electronic but it feels right. You get the feeling of gear change but the surge of power is of course relentless.

    For me the best addition to S mode is the more highly strung feel. The car is in the power band more often. This means you can pick your apex and slice though with ease. There is a much better balance in corners as the power is ready on demand when you want to apply the throttle at the apex to pull you through.

    A real benefit of all that extra energy in the rev range is on the downshift. With manual downshifts there is more engine braking allowing you to get more of the weight forward and increasing the contact patch of the tyres. I’m a student of Robb Gravett so I like this style of getting the most braking and cornering performance. The quicker rpm build means you have more options on exit corner exit too, where the v1.2 map overwhelmed the tyres too quickly with torque the v2 map digs in with grip and then rockets you out. The most noticeable difference is how after 4k rpm the rev counter needle moves so much more quickly toward the red line, but without the big wheel spin blip of the v1.2 map.

    Launch Control


    You’ll need to be on your game, that much I can be sure of. The steering wheel will now wriggle and fight you for control on launch. The RS3 is still fully controllable but just a little less benign – in other words make sure you are holding a little tighter if you do launch it. The wheels are a little more keep to find road surface imperfections or any camber, and grooves but again fine adjustments of the wheel bring things back in to line.

    Part of this is down to my front Michelin Pilot Super Sports which are rapidly approaching end of life. I can’t imagine how that happened so quickly! The good news from this is that the Super Sports have worn perfectly across the tyre width exactly as Michelin said they would. The tyre corners or ‘shoulders’ are still intact and the wear rate across the middle is even. My tyres have lived though 3 track outings and a handling day plus another near 7000 miles so this is a good result. The rear tyres still have 5mm tread depth which demonstrates how front driven the RS3 is (but even STIs and Evos wear rear tyres at about the same 2:1 Front: Rear rate)

    The statistics as they stand (damp/wet conditions):

    Launch 0-60 – 3.9 to 4.1s

    Non-launch 0-60 – 4.3-4.5s

    Real world 0-60 – 5.0s (no launch, in D, feed in the power from 50% throttle) you can make the traffic very small without reverting to any antics!

    Wet weather

    The good news is devastating wet weather progress is retained. The map doesn’t turn the RS3 into the tail twitching nightmare the Evo IX could be (on track day rubber) when the roads are more like rivers. The S tronic box still does it’s clever short shifting trick when the roads are sodden. Modulate the throttle to the conditions and the grip is always available just as before.

    There is one thing not to do! If you are making progress and forget to switch off the ESP you will get quite a surprise. I know I did. As I pulled out onto a wet roundabout in S mode I was thrown forward in my seat at about 30mph, literally all the power was cut as the ESP light blinked at me from the dashboard. I've said it before but you really do have to be comfortable wi the ESP off to make the most of the remaps, the Audi ESP is way to much of a nanny.

    Wet Weather Braking Delay
    :

    I’m not a great believer in the idea that there is a wet weather braking delay on the RS3, having driven flat out on track in the pouring rain I didn’t experience it once. But you know I think I might have worked out what people are experiencing. As the RS3 downshifts the rev matching blips the throttle, in turn this adds a little more thrust through the car. With the extra revs and power of the remap I can feel this pushing against the braking force I’m applying. Once or twice I did need to press the brakes a little harder. I wouldn’t call it a braking delay but I can see how it could be felt that way.

    Everyday driving
    :

    Everyday driving remains just as easy, the RS3 is no more difficult to live with. There is no overheating, jerky progress or misfire in the map and lets remember it wasn't so long ago that mapped cars could be like that. Other than being altogether more sensitive and alert the car retains the same OEM character for the daily commuting grind. And ths time I do mean OEM positively, the car has OEM drivability with a whole lot in reserve when called for.

    The increased MPG is also worth another mention. When I fitted the Super Sports the average MPG dropped from 28 to 26.5 mpg. In almost 1000 miles with the remaps the average MPG is touching 30 and that is with all the power runs and launches included. 34mpg plus on a cruise controlled motorway run is easily achievable. If you drive moderately I think some impressive MPG numbers might be possible.

    90 right, uphill, flat, over crest

    I’ve saved this bit for those of you still reading. I have a little local test route I use that includes an open 90 right degree junction followed by a big hill and crest. Think mini Cadwell Park ‘Mountain’ if you will.

    [​IMG]

    In really powerful cars, just like at Cadwell, you can get a moment or 2 or air, but for most cars the steep uphill gradient kills the power. The R26.R for example just gripped and gave you a bit a stomach churn but certainly no air. The little Westfields at near 350bhp/ton would get some proper lift! The RS3 loves this corner, on full power entry all 4 wheels give a little squeal of excitement as they bite on the hill. The v2 map gives an extra kick to the acceleration, and yes the front wheels go all light as they hit the top of the crest. The haldex gets all confused and pumps power to the rear wheels, luckily not enough power for an ET moment but enough to give momentary flight to the near 1600kg grippy quattro Salamander. Admittedly it’s like you hear the whole car give a sigh of relief when all four wheels are on terra firma again but as far as fun goes this is hard to match.

    Conclusion – Redemption
    :

    The big question is would I go back to standard now? No I wouldn’t, the change is as dramatic as I hoped it would be. That extra surge of turbo power and whistle lights up my day. Harry Metcalfe of evo recently called the TTRS Plus a ‘Junior Gallardo’, high praise indeed. I was hoping the APR map would turn the RS3 from super hatch into ‘junior GTR’ (the original 480bhp 276bhp/ton not todays 550bhp beast!), a sub 3.8s 0-60 and 8.5s 0-100 was what I was looking for, we didn’t quite make that with the v1.2 map but you know I’m quietly confident we could see those figures now.

    I don’t yet have a set of dyno figures or the dry weather performance stats to back up the subjective feel but the whole car feels, well, more alive and that is good enough for me. In fact I will go as far as to say this “the RS3 is now fast enough”. I don’t need or want any more than this on road, the RS3 will now do more than I ask, often I find I’m lifting rather than pressing for more.

    My rating now? 9/10, awaiting only the dry weather and decent set of dyno charts (400/400 would be good enough for me) for the final mark.

    Watch this space I will keep you updated.

    *Don’t worry I haven’t actually thrown the RS3 badges away they are on e-bay of course, so that someone with a replica can buy them!
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
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  3. Dean_T
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    Dean_T Active Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Another great write up!

    Wish I hadn't of read it though as it really makes me want an RS3.

    Good to hear you are happy now :)
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  4. L1ARR
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    L1ARR Active Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Great conclusion and update with the v2 map.
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  5. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Thank you, I'm happy, as an all rounder the RS3 is the best car I've owned, makes me happy when I look at and more importantly drive it and just that bit more wit the APR v2 map.

    Go on, you know you want one!
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  6. Morells
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    Morells Active Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Great write up I enjoy reading them every time. Just need those dyno results hope I'm there when you get them.
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  7. wickedstef
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    wickedstef Active Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Voilà! ;)

    Amazing Mark! Waiting for the dry testing now...
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  8. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Great write up as always ,v2.1 getting good reviews ;)
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  9. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Odd... Some of the TTRS are struggling on the v2 files with issues similar to your last version.
    I was tempted by the v2 file marketing but I'm holding station with Revo now.
    #8
  10. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    N1ck (ttrs) and decked (s3) are loving the v2.1 update over on vagoc...
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  11. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    lol decked is on a stage 3 2.0tfsi which is a different ball game to the the 2.5 engine. It seems to constantly give the tuners headaches.
    All I'm saying is that there are still gremlins on some cars but no one can work out why at present. You only need to look on some of the US forums.
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  12. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    So the engine tweaks are spot on......what about the brake gremlins........is that all sorted now with the recall which if so would make the RS3 near perfect.
    #11
  13. Veneeringman
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    Veneeringman Bazinga VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Bloody hell now I am tempted !! Is it really that easy to put it back to standard for service & warranty work ?

    quattro Salamander, Love it !!!!!:respekt:

    MBK you should turn these write ups into Memoirs of an RS3, Ha Ha !!
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  14. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    This doesn't massively surprise me, I get the feeling there is still more to learn about these ECUs and how they react to mapping. The kind of things other people were reporting about v1.2 just weren't the sensations in my car at all, yet I know some cars seem strong on that map.

    I get the feeling this will be a game of move by Audi and counter move by the mappers over the coming years.
    #13
  15. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    The brakes on my car are spot on, but I have the AP discs and Pagid pad combination which is one of the best I've experienced on any car. I believe the upgraded calipers have stopped the squeal for those that have the problem too.
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  16. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Yes as far as I know it is, and the maps should be switchable soon too. Remember even the 'official' ABT Sportsline / Audi map has to be put back to standard before any warranty work (I'm reporting this first hand from Bath Audi and ABT when I made the enquiry).

    Thank you I used to have the 25 year of quattro salamander stickers on my TT quattro Sport! They are made to grip not fly. The way I look at it is if the RS3 was meant to fly they'd have given it a wing like an Evo!

    As for memoirs I'm quite glad the RS3 can't talk about all it's adventures!! The real time tracker journey log makes for interesting reading on the trackdays and the runway run the GPS speeds are spot on!

    Oh and if you like the idea of memoirs you might like this old thread of mine (it helps if you are aware of 50 shades or sheds of grey!):

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/rs3-forum/184030-50-shades-rs3-–-alternative-story-rs3-challenge.html
    #15
  17. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Ahh the DaveB AP set up. Have you thought about adding the rear upgrade MBK?

    I'm running it with success for a while now

    [​IMG]

    Excuse the winter wheels and rubber
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  18. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Yes that's my next upgrade, I was talking to my friendly mechanic about this just 2 days ago. The rear discs need changing anyway so the time is right.
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  19. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    FIRST class Mark, thank you; I'll be reading it again, and again, later... :applaus:
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  20. klauster
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    klauster Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Glad to hear V2 has come good, great write up... maybe we need a late summer meet? :think:
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  21. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Always happy to do something if we can generate the interest.
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  22. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Here we go then some figures for a wet launch on the v2 map, big thanks again to my mate Rob for letting me use his site for the run before his work starts today! If it's dry later this evening we might get another run in.

    I don't quite understand how this map is working but launch control is now back to a much more healthy 3000rpm. And the 0-30 time is 0.3s faster as a result - and that is when it's wet. The time to 60 was compromised by a lot of wheel spin when the power really kicked in at 40-50mph. But look at that 0-100 time 9.18s, almost a half second faster than the v1.2 map on dry tarmac.

    These are the prettiest ways to show you the results, the PerformanceBox as near as perfectly agrees as a good error check:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
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  23. JonnyG
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    JonnyG Active Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Looking good !... you should get a sub 12s 1/4 mile time in the dry with less wheelspin :thumbsup:


    That would be impressive :yes:
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  24. dbm
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    dbm Active Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Wowsers! That's hypercar territory!
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  25. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    If, and it's quite a big if, I can get everything to hook up perfectly on one run I'm estimating 0-60 in 3.5, 0-100 in 8.8 and the 1/4 just under 12s - which is plenty fast enough, if we see better figures than that all the better.

    It would have been good to get close to evo magazines figures on the new RS6 - we can match the 0-60 (3.63) but I think the 8.2 0-100 is a bit out of reach - that extra 30bhp/ton makes all the different. I'd imagine a mapped TTRS would run the RS6 very close though!
    #24
  26. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    MARK! Please STOP... my old ticker can't take much more of this... :hubbahubba:
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  27. dbm
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    dbm Active Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    So MBK, I know you have uprated brakes and super sport tyres; have you modified the suspension in any way?
    #26
  28. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Hey Mark, is your beastie running: a) cat by-pass pipes, b) Standard (post-secondary cats) exhaust, and/or c) Standard intercooler?

    A larger intercooler would provide the biggest (further) gain (ambients considered); and the marginal effects from a free-flow exhaust too, but this would need a rolling-road to evaluate(?) :readit:

    But you've already considered these... (the application of any, and the effects gained, would be CHEAPER than a GTR, Mark!)
    :meeting:
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  29. Chris-32T
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    Chris-32T Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    if you can hold station for a few weeks till I get back from work then you shall have all the info needed. My car is currently running the same Map as Marks, but with the added uprated intercooler and milltek non res cat back with the delete pipes :)

    also currently sat there waiting to be fitted is a gutted OEM downpipe then it's a case of putting APR's stage 2 software on the car and do it all again :)

    APR quote 430ish bhp and 480ish lbft for there stage 2 with only a free flowing exhaust.
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  30. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    You should have seen the spray from the back of the car today on launch, it was immense, like a geyser! The 3k launch is now something to behold, properly exciting you'd love it!
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  31. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    No suspension mods, if I did I'd go for coil overs and anti roll bars but the reality is the standard set up is good enough for how I use the car. I don't get enough track time these days to make the gains worth it.
    #30
  32. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Just the standard exhaust with the secondary cats the insurance company wouldn't allow the decat pipes - but they do allow the remap and would cover the turbo back exhaust.

    The only reason I'm doing any of this is because the part ex offer against a GTR was a frankly shocking £27k and at this moment it would be a silly thing to trade in, the RS3 does all we need and a GTR wouldn't. So I used the same logic as you suggest there John - all (map, brakes tyres) this is way cheaper than the money I'd have put toward a GTR. I need another 2 front Super Sports soon and while the are far from cheap at £360 I would be lucky to get one tyre for a GTR for that!

    Will I be chasing further gains? No, I just have no need of it or place to use it. Mid 3s to 60 and stunning overtaking mid range pace is good enough for me. I'd like the extra exhaust noise for sure but it isn't worth £2k just for that and it might get a bit wearing day to day. If I was going to be running on the drag strip or regularly on track then I'd certainly add the intercooler.

    It will be great to see what dyno and road figures Chris-32T gets as a comparison between Stage 1 and 2.
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  33. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Man that's so funny, my bl##dy ribs are killin'.... :lmfao:

    See you on the 31st...
    #32
  34. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Well I now have the definitive performance stats on my car. The APR Stage I v2 map has taken my RS3 from a consistent 4.2s 0-60 car to a fairly consistent 3.7s - a half second gain, and I'm happy with that. The better news is that, unlike the v1.2 map, there is a bigger gain from 0-100 and yes we've just managed to see a sub 9 second 100, event though the 0-60 on this run suffered some wild 40mph wheel spin - more about that after the charts because there is a reason.

    [​IMG]
    Not the best 0-60 at 3.84 seconds because all of a sudden the S-tronic box started using the 7100 rpm limit, and on this run hit the limiter!

    [​IMG]
    0-100 in 8.94, yes we've broken the 9 second barrier. We didn't quite break the 12 second 1/4 mile though but it was close.

    The learning ECU

    I think there is a lot more to this 'learning ecu' concept, a strange thing happened on this and a couple of later runs - the S-tronic box started using the 7100rpm limit (before it had still changed at 6900rpm as the standard car, remember my launch control had started holding at 2200rpm but is now back to holding at 3000rpm. It really does seem as if the ECU is adapting to how it is driven.

    Even faster?

    Theoretically taking all the best times I've seen yes the car could make a 3.6s to 60 and 8.8s to 100 and a touch under 12s for the 1/4 mile. But that is just theory because there is always some wheel spin or a change in road surface to cause a difference in the times. I was quoted and have heard others mention times like 3.1-3.3s to 60 after the map and I'm sorry to say I've seen and felt nothing to suggest the RS3 is going to match that (get yourself a ride in a GTR for a sub 3 second launch and the difference is beyond compare).

    Testing Ends

    That's the end of my test runs (other than another dyno run), I now know how fast it the car is now and the answer is plenty fast enough. Launch control is one wild ride once mapped. It will be interesting to see what else the ECU learns as time goes on. These performance statistics are in the realm of some truly exotic cars yet you can still carry the family around and return more than 28mpg. Worth the money for the map? Definitely. Did I get my 'junior GTR'? Yes I just about did and that is good enough for me!
    #33
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  35. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 18, 2013]
    Hi mark i think you need a Racelogic performance meter stage 1 or stage 2..:)
    #34
  36. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 19, 2013]
    The PerformanceBox is slightly more accurate for sure but the graphs it produces look quite old fashioned these days and would take a lot more explaining on here, you get the same list of figures as Dynolicious so I used the easier to read charts.

    5 years ago it cost a small fortune to capture data (£500ish for the PerformanceBox and accessories) then another £120 for Trackvision to turn the data into on screen overlays like the type you see on my R26.R videos. But the PerformanceBox is starting to feel old fashioned itself, no wifi or bluetooth, no IOS integration etc.

    Today you can pay £5.99 for Dynolicious and it's about 0.1/0.2 less accurate than the PerformanceBox (set the trigger to 0.20G on the RS3 or the launch control rpm hold causes a false start). And for about £14 you can use Harry's laptimer which will put the on screen data either straight on to IOS video or GoPro footage for you.

    Neither Harry's Laptimer nor Trackvision have the option to add 0-60/100 or 1/4 times to the overlay - but I know Harry has been asked to add the feature. If they do I'll make a video of the results!

    My next toy will be a Vbox sport because it integrates with IOS, Harry's lap timer (making it much more accurate and less liable to data drop out) and the GoPro cameras.
    VBOX Sport Performance Meter
    #35
  37. billyali86
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    billyali86 New Member

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    [Aug 19, 2013]
    In order to get a low 3 0-60 it will need to be an s tronic tt rs

    Lower weight
    #36
  38. wickedstef
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    wickedstef Active Member

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    [Aug 20, 2013]
    Mark,

    That's excellent news! When you have time, could you please elaborate on the wheel spin @40mph. What matters to me is driveability and still being able to crush the loud pedal without losing traction :).

    Did you find out what the s-tronic remap would improve?

    I assume the ones enjoying stage III have a grin on their face as they must surely run even more amazing numbers.
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  39. P_G
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    P_G Member

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    [Aug 20, 2013]
    Glad you are happy Mark, on a dyno it should make a healthy 480 ftlbs on a vs 2.0 which is why you feel so much more shove over the 1.2 (IIRC was around 430 ftlbs). Mine was bang on the torque, just light on bhp but have come off Momentum to see if the change to V-Power gives me back some of my lost bhp. Launch control is lethal, I've yet to get it off the line without wheel spin; once I have this then launches will easily be sub 4 second.

    My mpg has marginally decreased however from 28.2 to 27.1 but I guess that is because I've been keen to use the extra torque at every opportunity. If I drive the car like I used to it'll probably increase.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
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  40. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 20, 2013]
    Hi Stephane, sure, if you keep your foot pinned on launch you get front wheel spin at 40mph regardless if it's wet or dry - mainly because the car holds first gear until the limiter. In normal driving say at 30mph you don't get so much as the RS3 doesn't kick down to 1st. You do still get some brief tyre squealing complaints of wheel spin at 30, 40 50 and even 60mph if you demand full throttle (especially if you are turning as well as you'd expect), feed in the throttle and all is well. There is clearly a lot more torque going through the tyres at much lower rpm. This does give the RS3 a slightly wilder character but 90% of the time it's the same car you know and love.
    #39
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  41. wickedstef
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    wickedstef Active Member

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    [Aug 21, 2013]
    Hi Mark,

    That's good news! Thank you and keep letting us know about your experience.
    #40

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