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Knew the economy was bad but now this???

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Igdos, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. Igdos
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    Igdos Member

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    BA asks staff to work for nothing


    [​IMG] BA won't say how much it hopes to save by its latest initiative


    British Airways is asking thousands of staff to work for nothing, for up to one month, to help the airline survive. The appeal, sent by e-mail to more than 30,000 workers in the UK, asks them to volunteer for between one week and one month's unpaid leave, or unpaid work.

    BA's chief executive Willie Walsh has already agreed to work unpaid in July, forgoing his month's salary of £61,000.

    Last month, BA posted a record annual loss of £401m, partly due to higher fuel bills and other costs.

    Mr Walsh said BA's drive to save cash was part of a "fight for survival".

    "I am looking for every single part of the company to take part in some way in this cash-effective way of helping the company's survival plan," he said.

    "It really counts," he added.

    (From bbc.co.uk)


    Incredible!


    I'm sure Willie survived okay one month short with his £650k+ from the rest of the year!
    #1
  2. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    my best mates been told his firm shuts on the 24th July but previously he had accepted a paycut...he won't get the money back.
    #2
  3. jcs356
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    jcs356 Brum brum

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    We were talking about the BA thing at work. I bet those who don't agree to work for free will have their names at the top of the redundancy list!
    #3
  4. abdus
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    abdus Top Gear

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    did BA pay the 30,000 workers between 1 week and 1 month's bonus when it was making profits?
    #4
  5. JohnboyC
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    JohnboyC Member

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    Bloody hell....work for nothing for a month....I wonder if it will be catching amongst employers !

    it still makes my blood boil that the utter moron Brown bailed the banks out to the tune of billions of pounds of taxpayers money - unbelieveble - One thing Brown is bl**dy good at is spending other peoples money in an utter wasteful way !

    Off my soapbox now
    #5
  6. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Its called Socialism.

    The trouble with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money to spend (Maggie Thatcher)
    #6
  7. Essflee
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    Essflee Active Member

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    Lots of companies are taking the piss at the moment, I'm sure some are abusing the fact that every body knows were in a recession...
    #7
  8. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hell yeah! They are making cutbacks and applying pressure on workers to do more.
    I am a great believer in ying and yang and hopefully the people making on others misery drown in their own sh*t.
    #8
  9. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    america is nearly bankrupt and the dollar is gona be replaced i think ..there debt in is the trillions .... china russia and iran are taking over maybe its payback for all the poo the yanks have done and the uk is gona get hit very hard watch this space
    #9
  10. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Iran, taking over, which paper you been reading, maybe you've been missing the recent elections & trouble over there, they need a democratic leader in place with some insight into how to deal with the rest of the world, arman is a bloody terrorist & just a complete & utter twat, I watched him at a university in the US some time back last year IIRC in a speech & taking questions & he truly is an idiot with no foresight into how the world works & what people really need.

    As I always say, religion is the evil of this world & causes all wars & trouble.

    With North Korea & Iran with nuclear weapons & the issues in Pakistan recently with the Taliban & they have nuclear weapons, WW3 could be round the corner the way its going I tell yer.
    #10
  11. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    yeah the yanks has massed a serious arsenal in alaska and 9000 troops ...russia comes to mind incase they invade

    its defo gearing up and iran mate is running and financing most of the middle east fight against the war on terror ..

    pakistan just train em china and russia have been doing joint invasion military exercises now for 2 years there just waiting for usa to go bankrupt then its only a matter of time

    china is ditching all its dollas and so are lots of other countrys to usa is in the poo big time its quite scary.

    and its money oil power and land that cause wars soon to be water aswell religeon is just an excuse to start them neerly all wars are over money iraq was so the usa could secure all the oil for ww3 and because saddam was trying to not deal in the dollar this was the real reason they invaded iraq .petro dollas ...
    #11
  12. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    What planet are you on 10blazin....

    WW1 was directly triggered by the assassination of the Austrian archduke, Franz Ferdinand and his wife, by Bosnian revolutionary, Gavrilo Princip.

    WW2 was caused by Hitler invading poland to start to eradicate other non Aaron races

    Israel/Palastine....... Bosnia etc etc need I go on ?
    #12
  13. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    your point being isreal palastine ....... its over land
    what planet are you on every war is over money or land ..hitlers was over the jew's being blamed for recession ... so what exactly is your point :think:
    the rules are in the bible and the koran and if we truly lived by them we would be fine but its greed mostly or land that starts these wars so i dont understand your "what planet are you on" i think you need a rethink :uhm:
    #13
  14. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    They found $900 million when they took iraq & this was hidden by Saddam, now you telling me he wouldnt deal with the dollar
    #14
  15. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    look up petro dollas nigel every country deels in dollas sadamn was trying to sell oil in other currencys like iran is doing now below is a little explained bush is no longer the president and usa is about 30 times more debt but you get the idea...


    There are many reasons for George Bush's single-minded drive toward Baghdad. In other articles I have written for YellowTimes.org I hinted that a not so obvious reason for the drive against Iraq is Bush's war against Europe. In fact, I have now come to believe that is the primary reason for his Iraqophenia.
    Whenever a nation decides to go to war, there are plans made for who is going to win and who is going to lose; no one goes to war expecting to lose but it isn't always the obvious target of the aggression that is the real thrust behind the war. Sometimes, it isn't a case of what you expect to win from a war but rather a case of what you hope someone else loses; and it doesn't have to be your stated enemy who you hope will sustain the losses.


    In this case, Bush's hoped-for victim is the European economy. It is robust, and is likely to become much stronger in the easily foreseeable future. Britain's entry into the European Union is inevitable; Scandinavia will join sooner rather than later. Already, even without those countries, there will be 10 new member nations in May 2004 which will swell the GDP of the E.U. to about $9.6 billion with 450 million people as against $10.5 billion and 280 million people in the United States. This represents a formidable competing block for the United States but the situation is significantly more complex than what is revealed just by those numbers. And much of it hinges on the future of Iraq.


    I have written before, as have many others, that this upcoming war is about oil. To be sure there are other reasons, but oil is the single most impelling force. Not in the way you might expect, however. It isn't so much that there are believed to be huge untapped oil reserves in Iraq, untapped only due to outdated technology; it isn't so much an American desire to get its grubby hands on that oil; it is much more a question of whose grubby hands the Americans want to keep it out of.


    What precipitated all of this was not September 11, nor a sudden realization that Saddam was still a nasty guy, nor just the change in leadership in the United States. What precipitated it was Iraq's November 6, 2000 switch to the euro as the currency for its oil transactions. At the time of the switch, it might have seemed daft that Iraq was giving up such a lot of oil revenue to make a political statement. But that political statement has been made and the steady depreciation of the dollar against the euro since then means that Iraq has derived good profits from switching its reserve and transaction currencies. The euro has gained about 17 percent against the dollar since that time, which also applies to the $10 billion held in Iraq's United Nations "oil for food" reserve fund.
    So the question arises, as it did for George Bush, what happens if OPEC makes a sudden switch to euros?

    In a nutshell, all hell breaks loose.
    At the end of World War II, an agreement was reached at the Bretton Woods Conference which pegged the value of gold at $35 per ounce and that became the international standard against which currency was measured. But in 1971, Richard Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard and ever since the dollar has been the most important global monetary instrument, and only the United States can produce them. The dollar, now a fiat currency [i.e., "money that is made legal tender by the decree, or fiat, of the government but that is not covered by a specie reserve" (Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed.)], is at a 16-year trade-weighted high despite record U.S. current-account deficits and the status of the U.S. as the leading debtor nation.

    The U.S. national debt as of April 4, 2002 was $6.021 trillion against GDP of $9 trillion.
    Trade between nations has become a cycle in which the U.S. produces dollars and the rest of the world produces things that dollars can buy. Nations no longer trade to capture comparative advantage but rather to capture needed dollars to service dollar-denominated foreign debts and to accumulate dollar reserves in order to sustain the exchange value of their domestic currencies.

    In an effort to prevent speculative and potentially harmful attacks on their currencies, those nations' central banks must acquire and hold dollar reserves in amounts corresponding to their own currencies in circulation. This creates a built-in support for a strong dollar that in turn forces the world's central banks to acquire and hold even more dollar reserves, making the dollar stronger still.


    This phenomenon is known as "dollar hegemony," which is created by the geopolitically constructed peculiarity that critical commodities, most notably oil, are denominated in dollars. Everyone accepts dollars because dollars can buy oil.


    The reality is that the strength of the dollar since 1945 rests on being the international reserve currency for global oil transactions (i.e., "petro-dollar"). The U.S. prints hundreds of billions of these fiat petro-dollars, which are then used by nation states to purchase oil and energy from OPEC producers (except presently Iraq and, to some degree, Venezuela). These petro-dollars are then re-cycled from OPEC back into the U.S. via Treasury Bills or other dollar-denominated assets such as U.S. stocks, real estate, etc. The recycling of petro-dollars is the price the U.S. has extracted since 1973 from oil-producing countries for U.S. tolerance of the oil-exporting cartel.


    Dollar reserves must be invested in U.S. assets which produces a capital-accounts surplus for the U.S. economy. Despite poor market performance during the past year, U.S. stock valuation is still at a 25-year high and trading at a 56 percent premium compared with emerging markets. The U.S. capital-account surplus finances the U.S. trade deficit.


    Since it is the U.S. that prints the petro-dollars, they control the flow of oil. Period. When oil is denominated in dollars through U.S. state action and the dollar is the only fiat currency for trading in oil, an argument can be made that the U.S. essentially owns the world's oil for free.


    So what happens if OPEC as a group decides to follow Iraq's lead and suddenly begins trading oil on the euro standard? Economic meltdown. Oil-consuming nations would have to flush dollars out of their central bank reserves and replace them with euros. The dollar would crash in value and the consequences would be those one could expect from any currency collapse and massive inflation (think of Argentina for an easy example). Foreign funds would stream out of U.S. stock markets and dollar denominated assets, there would be a run on the banks much like the 1930s, the current account deficit would become unserviceable, the budget deficit would go into default, and so on.


    And that's just in the United States. Japan would be particularly hard hit because of total dependence on foreign oil and incredible sensitivity to the U.S. dollar. If Japan's economy tumbles, so does that of many other countries, especially the United States in a crescendo of dominos.
    Now this is the potential effect of a "sudden" switch to euros. A more gradual shift might be manageable but even that would change the financial and political balance of the world. Given the size of the European market, its population, its need for oil (it actually imports more oil than the U.S.), it may be rapidly approaching that the euro will become the de facto monetary standard for the world.


    There are some good reasons for OPEC as a group to follow Iraq and begin to value oil in euros. There seems little doubt that they would relish the opportunity to make a political statement after years of having to kowtow to the U.S., but there are solid economic reasons as well.


    The mighty dollar has reigned supreme since 1945, and in the last few years has gained even more ground with the economic dominance of the United States. By the late 1990s, more than four-fifths of all foreign exchange transactions, and half of all world exports, were denominated in dollars. In addition, U.S. currency accounts for about two thirds of all official exchange reserves. The world's dependency on U.S. dollars to pay for trade has seen countries bound to dollar reserves, which are disproportionately higher than America's share of global output.


    It is important to note that the euro is not at any disadvantage versus the dollar when one compares the relative sizes of the economies involved, especially given the E.U. enlargement plans. Moreover, the E.U. has a bigger share of global trade than the U.S. and while the U.S. has a huge current account deficit, the E.U. has a more balanced external accounts position. One of the more compelling arguments for keeping oil pricing and payments in dollars has been that the U.S. remains a large importer of oil, despite being a substantial producer itself. But the EU is an even larger importer of oil and petroleum products than the U.S., and represents for OPEC a more attractive market, closer and less domineering.


    The point of Bush's war against Iraq, therefore, is to secure control of those oil fields and revert their valuation to dollars. Then to increase production exponentially and force prices to drop. Finally, to threaten significant action against any of the oil producers who would switch to the euro.


    In the long run, then, it is not really Saddam who is the target; it is the euro and, therefore, Europe. There is no way the United States will sit by idly and let those upstart Europeans take charge of their own fate, let alone of the world's finances. Of course, all of this depends on Bush's insane plan not becoming the trigger for a Third World War, as it so readily might.
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  16. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    Which biased website did you copy all that of then ?
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  17. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Thats exactly what I read tbh & outdated, what a load of tripe.

    He has 900 mill hidden away & then wants to bring the dollar down, smell some of what you're shovelling please.
    #17
  18. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    ok sorry news at 10 is right you keep watching that then its gospell . the states is more or less bankrupt but you just go along with what you believe .

    I cant even be bothered argueing about it because you just get shot down ..

    and nige it is out dated which i pointed out at the top the situation now it much much worse ...

    I dont get the part which is tripe every country deals in dollas and thats fact , china is using alot of its stored up dollas on buying businesses property all over the world including the states etc, you could say unloading there dollas at a rapid rate the dollar is on its arse serious .

    Im not even getting into this do some research yourselfs and take your head out of the paper and the news at ten
    #18
  19. Geordie Mike
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    Geordie Mike Yeee-haw

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    Opinions are like ar5eholes, everyone has one. The beauty of the internet & modern media is that you can put up pretty much anything you like without anyone knowing anything about you or your actual knowledge. For example, did you know penguins have recently been spotted flying. On a recent research trip I took to the Falklands I studied it myself, so that's a FACT.
    #19
  20. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Take your head out of your backside & stop pretending to know what us lot watch & read, certainly not newspapers or news at 10 & havnt for many many years.

    I watch BBC News which is one of the most respected in the world, Fox news, I read online etc etc all unbiaised views.

    & please try & read what I'm actually saying, I will say it again, Saddam had stashed nearly 1billion bucks hidden away for his familes own use, so why would he want to bring down the dollar cause it would make that absolutely useless, this is fact by the way, 900million in cold fisted cash, I remember watching the story, there's no way back then he would bring down the dollar, this is what I believe is tripe.
    #20
  21. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    lmfao thats very good point, whats believable & not huh
    #21
  22. Geordie Mike
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    Geordie Mike Yeee-haw

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    Peer reviewed papers in journals are typically better.

    Add: Although that is just my opinion, see earlier post...
    #22
  23. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    I hate history lessons.
    #23
  24. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    so nige if they didnt invade riaq for the petro dollar what did they invade it for ..

    to liberate it like the unbiased bbs were pushing untill it all came out and that inspector hans blix was found with his wrist slashed in the forest after the the invasion , he was either seen off or had a really bad coscience because there was no weopons there period .

    It got that perthetic they were pushing he had trucks full of wmds missles MOVING AROUND AT ALL TIMES AND CANT BE TRACKED ..lol what a joke

    After the invasion the bbc soon changed its tune...

    There were no wmd's in iraq they were all blown up in the first war which were supplied by america of coarse for the iran iraq war , i have videos on that you can clearly see an underground bunker with crates upon crates stamped the US government and jordan government they blew the whole thing up alot went into the atmosphere clever guys..

    Then after iraq was used just like afghanistan to fight the russians they were pulverisd ...this is fact .No wonder binladens get created talk about twist the knife

    so just say why you think why iraq was invaded just so i can get an insite to your views
    #24
  25. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    yawn
    #25
  26. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    Im not even entertaining you ,sound's like a no brainer ...Im not argueing with nigel just debating mate if youve nothing positive to say then why say it ...
    #26
  27. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Dont start that ***** again blazin, just cause the guy has a different car to you, if you didnt realise some of the skodas are actually pretty good & they share same parts as your car so we could say you're also a skoda driver.

    Anyway if I had more time today I'd humour you but I really am snowed down with IT ****, so have to leave until another day, but dont intentionally cause a heated issue, its childish & uncalled for.
    #27
  28. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    @ 10blazin

    Why do you always throw the teddy out of the pram?

    The yawn comment was because I'm sick to the back teeth of people ranting on about what's happening in Iraq when the nearest they've got to the place is looking a picture in the newspaper/tv/internet.

    Go do a tour over there like I and many others have. See the sh1t that goes on there first hand. Speak to the people on the ground, find out what it's really like then.... if you really feel the same come back and stand on your soap box and have a rant.

    If not, go get some proper education of what the feck in going on in the middle east.

    expects massive personal flaming back
    #28
  29. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    i know what going on in iraq i know quite a few iraqis and iranians that i speek to pretty regular im sure they probably know just a tad more than you phoning home speaking to there relatives showing me torture scars off sadam one iranian even set himself on fire because he was rejected asylum which was in our building he came out smoking and died the next day where i used to work so i do know whats going on and dummy comes out when you could just say what you have said now but have to say stupid ignorent comments thats what makes me " get thick " so to say ....
    #29
  30. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    and about iraq they piss me off to id shoot a few myself them mad militants that is that behead people i wish we would have never touchd iraq or have them here its hell over there and they do hate us.... the point wasnt iraq it was about why it was invaded and petro dollars and the current economic crises which is gona affect us all

    expects yawn back
    #30
  31. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    :uhm: Oh my, I don't even know how to respond. I guess we both live in very very different realities..... I'll leave it at that.
    #31
  32. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    my point was mate that we should of left iraq alone i watched a program the other night there was bombs going of all over , the hospital was full ..

    shiites and sunni killing each other and this shiite woman was screaming for the return of saddam who used to oppress the shiites so thats saying something..

    the iraqis now i know say it was better with saddam iraq is now a hellhole muslims from all over the world are going to find jihad there were never gonna get out and if we do its gonna be twice as worse with 10 fold hatred for the west...... nice job
    #32
  33. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    Erm the British Army as a fighting force are no longer in Iraq. We pulled out of Basra last month.
    #33
  34. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    im on about the yanks we are allies right ?? what affects them affects us infact almost everybody the yanks have took over basra havent they but as soon as we , they pull out its doomed but i doubt the yanks are its probably the best strategec point to fight armaghedon enough oil anyhow lol
    #34
  35. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    :facepalm:
    #35
  36. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    or napalm lol

    im off cant be bothered youle see when it starts might be next week might be 5 or 10 years but its coming probably in our lifetime...

    and its scary as hell , its ok to say theres nowt you can do about it and all the brave comments but i when it actually hits the fan and i gota think **** what do i do about the kids ,peoples arses will be twiching bigtime
    #36

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