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Is this power pulley kit worth getting anyone ???

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Chester999, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. Chester999
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    Chester999 Speed Freak !!!

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    Been looking at this power pulley kit for the 1.8t engines they are quite pricey so just wanted to know if anyone has used these before and are they worth the money any info would be great cheers.

    Awesome - Neuspeed Power Pulley Kit 1.8T
    #1
  2. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    No... the crank pulley is not damped and will essentially shake the engine to bits... avoid like the plague

    <tuffty/>
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  3. Chester999
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    Chester999 Speed Freak !!!

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    ok cheers tuffty will scrap that idea then lol
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  4. Chester999
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    Chester999 Speed Freak !!!

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    #4
  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Both Welly and I run big turbos on a std fuel rail thats more than enough for your 440's...

    Save your money

    <tuffty/>
    #5
  6. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    Standard rail on mine also

    Its something i looked into and found it to be fine right up to some very high power levels
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  7. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    absolutely NOT
    see below what can happen when you fit Neuspeed *cough* power pulley... power my arse.
    Crank Pulley is damped as std, helps deal with resonance.

    Friends engine after fitting Neuspeed Power Pulleys
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    and the offending power pulley
    [​IMG]


    Want a different pulley Fluid Damper one.
    #7
  8. [Dave B]
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    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

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    Feck me!!!
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  9. Shane-Ireland
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    Shane-Ireland Member

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    holy moly!
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  10. IGI
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    IGI Member

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    WOW !
    seen plenty of engines with holes in the block but nothing like that before..thats a good one:w00t:
    #10
  11. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    WOOOOWW im lost for words... thanks for the heads up bill
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  12. Neru
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    Neru Member

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    Is it just the neuspeed one, I got an ecs one I was planning on installing after seeing that probably a bad idea
    #12
  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Any pulley thats not damped in some way is bad... IE do billet ones too... same issue applies...

    <tuffty/>
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  14. Neru
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    Neru Member

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  15. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    #15
  16. Neru
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    Neru Member

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    damn, oh well I just ill sell of my set which came with my timing belt kit

    how hard is it to balance bottom end
    #16
  17. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Easy enough for an engineering shop... needs specialist gear to do

    <tuffty/>
    #17
  18. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    #18
  19. Sneekyparrot
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    Sneekyparrot Member

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    Has anyone had Thier motor fully balanced , crank rods etc? Just wondered if it was worth it while it was apart?

    I was going to use Andrews Precision • What We Do • Crankshaft Balancing

    These guys are local to me.

    But would rather know from those who have already developed the 1.8t if I am wasting my £££

    Cheers
    SP.
    #19
  20. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    I have
    #20
  21. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    #21
  22. Andrew@A.L.D
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    Andrew@A.L.D Cylinder Head Master

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    yes but you can get a Kents cams cam belt for a lot less
    #22
  23. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    The factory pulley is damped.. any billet only offering will be the same as neuspeeds, so avoid
    pointless mod.

    if you want something better than oe, and this is generally for BT cars with more revs and power, Fluid Damper is what you should use.
    #23
  24. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

    If you can, get it done.
    #24
  25. AwesomeHassan
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    AwesomeHassan Member

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    Hello guys and girls,

    I passed this information onto Neuspeed.
    I have the exact reply as quoted:

    "We have been selling under-drive pulleys worldwide for well over 15 years and have never had one customer complaint of engine damage or shortened life. From the pics that engine is not even stock internally, how could he blame the pulley when there are so many other modifications."

    I hope that helps

    Thanks
    Hassan
    #25
  26. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Explain why removing a mass damped crank pulley for a billet non damped one wont effect resonant damping of the crank then please Hassan/Neuspeed

    Harmonics and resonant frequencies on the crank is whats occuring without a damped pulley


    some light reading for you... Engine Vibration - Why A Damper Is Absolutely Essential



    Engine was modified yes.. and unfortunately for the owner after it has been built he thought a "billet pulley set" would help.... then the crank snapped on next test day. No coincidence the crank failed (not the rods or pistons<< read the above link as to likely cause)
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
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  27. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Humm... so crankshaft harmonics disappear when using a non damped pulley? I would think not... if anything fitting this pulley to a fairly std engine would be worse than fitting one to a blueprinted and fully balanced engine (such as the one in the pics)....

    Seems odd that VAG deem it a requirement for a damped pulley to be fitted to help eliminate this issue as std... not like them to do something for the hell of it..

    <tuffty/>
    #27
  28. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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  29. AwesomeHassan
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    AwesomeHassan Member

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    Bill, I am not getting in to the ins and outs of harmonic and resonant vibrations mainly because I know very little about them,

    You have deliberately attacked a product that we sell a lot of and off the back of what you have mentioned I have been on to Neuspeed to find out if what you have said is really an issue with the product they offer. They say it is a product they have offered for 15 years and are unaware of it causing engine failures.

    You know more than most that there is an argument to be had for and against almost every modified part that is offered for any car.

    Just because a highly tuned motor failed the day after fitting them this does not mean they were categorically the cause of the engine failure, it just seem like a coincidence. I bet you've seen a few of these in your days. I am sure you could real off a long list of other issues that could have caused that failure. It would be very hard to specifically identify the failure on that motor as it's by far the worst failure I have ever seen and will have damaged so many unrelated parts when it exploded,

    All in all I do respect your opinion and would never dismiss it and they may not be best for a motor that is very highly strung but I do believe all standard motors with stage 1 or 2 maps on them would not have an issue with the power pulleys,
    #29
  30. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Actually in context no he hasn't... the fact that the Awesome is mentioned in the original link is irrelevant (and coincidental)... this is about the product (and products like it) regardless of who sells it... where does it say that its not recommended for non std engines? surely if a product is believed to be a problem on tuned engines then this should be made obvious to mitigate against the potential for a product to be discussed like this when its actually not suitable for certain applications...

    <tuffty/>
    #30
  31. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    ...further more... how can you say (and I quote)...

    when you have said...
    <tuffty/>
    #31
  32. AwesomeHassan
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    AwesomeHassan Member

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    "avoid like the plague" and "power my arse" I took as attacking the product.

    We are just trying to offer our opinion on one of the products we sell, we are just joining in the conversation with everyone else and offering a different opinion. It is up to anyone reading the post to do with what they want with the information and I appreciate nothing has been aimed at Awesome,

    " surely if a product is believed to be a problem on tuned engines then this should be made obvious to mitigate against the potential for a product to be discussed like this when its actually not suitable for certain applications.."

    I haven't said that. I said it might not be the best option, that is only my opinion not the company's or manufactures and I have said that due to the nature of the post and the mention of harmonics etc and I expected someone to come up with something to do with the harmonics and a tuned engine. That was my fault making an assumption as I am unaware weather they would cause an issue on a tuned motor or not.

    I would have thought removing the vibration damper from the front of the engine would be a lot less likely to cause a failure than fitting a single mass fly wheel especially since the front toothed crank pulley is under tension and damped by the toothed belt and the hydraulic damper.

    Is this right or wrong?
    #32
  33. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    Sounds more like advising to me and the way you worded your reply made it sound like you thought he was having a go at Awesome... like I said... its the product (irrespective of who makes it as there are a few out there and irrespective of the supplier...) thats in question...

    Point is you are currently representing Awesome and people will take what you say as " Awesome said....." its a fine line we all have to be aware of

    fitting a single mass flywheel has nothing to do with crankshaft harmonics in this context... a flywheel would be a balanced component much like a DMF... it would be no different... I suspect you have this mixed up with the inherent chatter that you get from the gearbox after fitting an SMF...

    Crankshaft harmonics is the result of torsional stresses imposed on the crank from the combustion process not rotational vibrations from unbalanced components..

    <tuffty/>
    #33
  34. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    in my eyes, its common sense as to why not to use one, and why a damped one is so essential
    #34
  35. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Please read my post 23 - I am not digging at Neuspeed/Awesome - but the product is not a good idea for the reasons I have stated.
    Billet crank pulley wheels, (anyones), non-harmonic balancer type are not a good idea.


    Non damped crank pulley is just a bad idea. There is no performance reason to fit a different crank pulley (other than high performing engines, and I dont mean stage 1/2 remapped) - Fluid Damper for high end motors is the only available option I am aware of (and use personally)

    Power Pulley? power? Is this a name or a description of what they proport it to do?


    Could you ask Neuspeed engineers why a non balanced crank pulley on an engine designed for one, is deemed ok... and the answer ....
    does'nt cut it with me. Why is a non resonant damped pulley ok?

    They should take note of the picture posted of their pulley on the broken crank engine. They can look for many others excuses or reasons of other potential causes, but to ignore harmoncs and crank resonance, knowing their crank pulley is'nt, is to stick their head in the sand whilst whistling la la la.. This might be the first they have seen, but I find it hard to believe its the only one which has occurred.

    Bill
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
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  36. Sneekyparrot
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    Sneekyparrot Member

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    Oki doki I will add it to the ever growing list :))

    Thx
    paul
    #36
  37. ZAS
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    ZAS Member

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    Holy crap! Thanks for posting this, I was thinking of buying the IE equivalents but will think twice about it now.

    Why would folks still continue to sell these kits then? I mean, IE are pretty clued up engineering wise, so I would think they would take this into consideration?

    JB
    #37
  38. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    A very good question.

    Remember companies who make these are making them to keep up with their competitors and a demand for a product, and they are in business to sell you stuff.
    #38
  39. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    maybe i understood you wrong but the IE fuildampr one you can buy as it does dampen unlike the rest i.e. billet....
    #39
  40. ZAS
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    ZAS Member

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    Yup, that is only one of their offerings though, they do also sell plain billet ones.
    #40

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