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Engine rebuild required on a B8 @68k

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B8 Chassis)' started by A4B8Sline, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    any audi engine can suffer from it
    luck of the draw
  2. craigbeal
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    craigbeal New Member

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    So a quick update, the car has been into Audi main dealer for the day, they gave the car a free inspection and said everything looked good apart from the brake fluid will need changing in 5000 miles and carried out checks for oil leaks etc regarding the high oil usage (1ltr - 430 miles). They have given me the car back and ordered a part from Germany which they said will cost about £40 and an hours fitting cost which will be done next week once it arrives. Sure they said it was a crankcase breather that had been ordered or something along those lines and said it could be using oil due to that?
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  3. davyb0y
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    davyb0y New Member

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    ihad to buy a second hand engine when my oil stoped getting to it,cam shaft went pop game over breather valve or somethin had gone, new engine over a year now still drinks oil i top up every month an its fine thats just the way this engine is
  4. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    ..... Ill comment here too then, the engine isnt fine using a litre of oil per month. It needs fixing. Your topping up 3 times the amount the car actually needs at a service per year!! (12liters)
    Every car uses a little oil as oil evaporates when its hot. But this is a known issue. And may be fixable under warranty unless your a barry boy and have bonnet scoops and drift wing on the back voiding all claims!!

    Go take it to a garage and fix it. I can only imagine your car smokes!
  5. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    why not take it to an indy garage , it isnt hard to swap pistons and rings . its not that expensive either definately alot cheaper than 2k
  6. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    If you have a hole in the sump then it clear you would fund the repair your self.
  7. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    your insurance if fully comp will replace the engine if its an economic repair
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  8. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    Your insurance company wont replace the engine!
  9. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    go to a different insurance company then , of course they will if its accidental damage and its cheaper to fix than write off. what about all the people who drives through flood water and wreck engines .
  10. A4B8Sline
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    A4B8Sline Member

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    Another update from me, 7500 miles since the repair and the oil has dropped to about 3/4. More than happy with that. And now the cold mornings are returning there is certainly less white condensation smoke from the exhausts.

    How are the rest who have had repairs getting on?
  11. ScottishS3
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    ScottishS3 Well-Known Member

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    I've had no problems since getting mine done. Love the slightly meatier exhaust note it now gives!
  12. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    An insurance company will not pay for non accident repairs to your car, other wise should they not pay for servicing and mots as well??
    They will pay for accidental damage like you have said, driving through flood water etc, but a perishable part (like an engine), NO CHANCE!

    My update, 198 miles into the 621 mile consumption test and light is on. Going in tomorrow. I have already pre warned them that I am not paying a penny......
  13. A4B8Sline
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    A4B8Sline Member

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    Good luck AjM, let me know how you get on? I see your in devon. Where are you taking it?
  14. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Exeter Audi
  15. A4B8Sline
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    A4B8Sline Member

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    That's where mine was repaired. Good service usually and the tech who done mine did a good job.
  16. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Did they charge you anything?
  17. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Well the usual disappointment has set in. It would seem that the consumption test has been falsified and the only reason I can see for this is to enable them to recommend fitting a crank control valve to increase the pressure and fix the problem (and increase the end bill by over £600). We all know that with the consumption of my car that it is the pistons and only that will solve, but although my car is using 3.3ltrs per 1000kms (621 miles) they have put it as 2.1 ltrs per 1000kms. They have also downed there offer to 70% on parts only so I walked out and refused to pay a penny. Que the massive complaint to Audi UK, watch this space.
  18. ScottishS3
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    ScottishS3 Well-Known Member

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    As I was informed my Audi UK, it is up to the Audi Dealership, to decide how much the contribution would be for a car out of warranty, NOT them. My final bill for work done was around £6000, of which I only had to pay £255 after my contribution. Some people on here have had 100% of the bill paid and some ALOT less. So it depends what dealership you take your car to. Audi UK are aware of the problem with the 2.0TFSI but wouldn't do anything about it unlike Audi US, who fixed all cars for free!
  19. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Interesting, they told me the exact opposite. it was ONLY Audi UK that could and would make any decisions regarding this issue and that the dealer is completely powerless.
    To be fair I could not care what they say, the issue is Audi's and they need to sort it, period.
  20. ScottishS3
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    ScottishS3 Well-Known Member

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    You are right! It is Audi's responsibility to sort it as they manufactured an item that had a design fault! I spoke to the Head of Audi UK Customer services, so try speaking to him. He even phoned me after the work was done to see if I was happy.
  21. SteB
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    SteB New Member

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    OK, so I've spent some time following this thread, my 59 plate A4 2.0TFSI exhibited the dreaded oil consumption problem not long after buying it with 50k on the clock and a full warranty service history. The oil consumption test was failed inside 400 miles!

    The car was covered by the remainder of the Audi warranty when the problem was reported to Audi UK and to my local dealer. Audi ducked getting back to me and booking the car in for a consumption test until after the warranty had expired! :banghead:

    Audi UK have agreed to cover 100% of the parts and the dealer initially asked me to contribute 3k to the 22hours of labour required! Obviously I was never going to agree to that. After some email exchanges I've given the go ahead with a contribution from me of 1k! (I'm away on business at the minute and they have the car, can't wait to have a face to face with the service manager!)

    Any ways, while I'm here in Boston I was taking pictures of a car and the guy who owned it came over, turns out to be the dealer manager from Audi Woburn. He confirmed that cars after 2010 are all ok and Audi US cover 100% of the repair costs for all cars affected by this. Interestingly he doesn't drive an Audi, but a Chevvy Camaro! What does that tell us!
    I met bumble bee.jpg
    I'll be back in the UK on October 28th and will let you know how many teeth the service manager has left! :gun2:
    JG51 AUD likes this.
  22. ScottishS3
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    ScottishS3 Well-Known Member

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    Good luck mate! There are loads of Camaros where I am. REALLY want one bad!!!!! lol
    Again this just goes to show that the dealer contributions vary massively and that at least Audi US knew there was a problem and fixed them for free. Audi UK should do the same as it was a manufacturing default!!!
  23. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Well just had a long conversation with Audi UK who have now told me that it is NOT up to them after all and up to the dealer who are still refusing to budge on there offer of 70% parts only. Also they are also refusing to budge on charging £600 to fit the crank pressure valve which they say will fix the problem.
    Just to remind my car is using 1ltr per 200 miles....
    Thoughts???
  24. ScottishS3
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    ScottishS3 Well-Known Member

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    Try a different dealership mate. Seriously as the dealership contribustions vary MASSIVELY, as seen by this thread!
  25. SteB
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    SteB New Member

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    I'm not sure if you already posted it, but could you give us the history of the car. It seems that the service history, mileage and your apparent want to use the dealer in future goes someway to reducing the bill. I for example agreed to take out an Audi extended service agreement which saw the dealer drop his labour from 3k to 1k.

    For info, I was told that Audi UK was covering the cost of parts and the labour was down to goodwill from the dealer doing the work.

    Did they bother with consumption test 2? My dealer carried it out on my behalf and recorded a fail, they never mentioned looking at the crank valve.

    Have you provided them with the evidence in this thread? Don't go in there snorting waving it around like a mad man, just calmly site the cases here. Also as said in a previous post, if this is your first experience of Audi make sure Audi uk know that!
  26. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    They have till Monday to do better, but good idea!

    The car is 09, with 84k and full Audi History. I am a very long standing Audi customer but not with this Dealer. My local one closed 3 months ago. Audi UK are well aware of this. I have given them all the info I have presented every argument but it has made no difference.

    Oh and they have done both parts of the test and now they also want me to pay for it!
  27. gupsterg
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    gupsterg Active Member

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    Audi are well aware it's a production issue ...

    So MY12 produced cars ie 2011 onwards should be fine ...

    The above TSB / TPI is the second one they check/apply after doing the first/cheaper fix (TSB/TPI 2024604) ...
  28. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Cool where did you find that, I can 'discuss' it when they call me next week....
  29. gupsterg
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    gupsterg Active Member

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    PM an external email and I will share two files with more data than in post ;) ...
  30. SteB
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    SteB New Member

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    Car was collected yesterday. Requested a report on their findings and why pistons should fail after 50,000miles, which they have not yet provided......wonder why!?!

    I had a talk to the dealer that I bought the car from regarding the bill for this and they paid no problem, so the rebuild has cost me nothing! :yahoo: They happen to have taken another in part ex with the same problem.....why aren't Audi dealing with this?

    Car seems to have a bit more low down grunt, not had it above 4000 rpm yet, but will later today. :rock:

    I'll report back every few thousand miles on how the consumption has changed.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  31. Rudders
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    Rudders Member

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    Well i've now used 1 litre of oil since my complete new engine was fitted.... Total mileage just over 1,300. That's a fair bit less than I was hoping to see. Do new engines use more oil while they're 'bedding in'?
  32. SteB
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    SteB New Member

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    Rudders, that's a lot of oil! 1 litre in 1300 miles is right on the limit of too much according to the book. 'Up to 0.5 litres per 621miles'. I'd be taking it back to garage and making them aware asap!

    Modern engines do not require the same kind of run in as they did 10 years ago, manufacturing processes allow for very fine bore finishing which mates rings to bores almost immediately. I've had company cars for some years now and none of them have used oil from new, or ever, even at 120k.

    The only time any modern engine should use oil is if there's something wrong!
  33. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Well I have finally got somewhere. The car is going in tomorrow for the crank modification and software update which is being paid for in full by the garage I bought the car from. Also I now have it in writing that if this fails and the piston rings need to be sorted etc, that Audi UK will fund the entire bill!!

    RESULT, FINALLY!
  34. Pebble dasher
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    Pebble dasher Member

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    Hi All, I am new on here and have recently joined a few forums to share my story!

    4 weeks ago I bought a 2009 Audi A4 2.0TFSi S Line Avant 211bhp in Phantom Black, I absolutely love the car, puts a smile on my face everyday! 66000 miles, full Audi Service History. What could go wrong? ... Week 1' fill up max 1 litre of oil warning on MMI, week 2, same message, week 4 and again!! That is 3 litres in 1000 miles.

    i had already read dozens of posts on the net and realized that I have a problem as so many of you. I bought the car from a reputable sports and performance garage, purely on the excellent condition of the car an full Audi service history and good mileage.

    first port of call, I rang trading standards, logged it with them and got my rights, second port of call, I rang Audi and explained my problem and they suggested an oil consumption test 30 mins free, then 2nd 30 mins £72.00' free health check and valet. Fair enough, it was worth it, I wanted to go to the garage I got the car from armed. On my way to taking my car to Audi, ESP and engine management light came on and it went in to limp mode and was misfiring, I was gutted.

    Anyway, dropped it of, later that day, Audi called, explained, pistons all need replacing, they are covered in carbon, also pistons may need replacing, repair quoted at £5000. I went on at the guy about the above, having just bought the car and why I chose this one etc. and he wouldn't budge.

    When I went in to pay, I sat down with him and asked to see the service history and any notes, all quite straightforward, not much information, the advisor told me the pistons had never been changed, I took note of this and have looked in to it. I had to get these changed so I could drive the car to the garage I bought it from as they requested to check the car out (they have to show willing to repair it under the trading standards act 'fit for purpose') so I didn't want to pay £200 as Audi were quoting me and got a friends garage to do this, I have kept the original ones which were platinum and normally Audi would change these apparently at around 60000 miles. It's last service was at around 56000 miles, I am guessing they should have checked them then. if they had checked they would have seen the carbon build up and investigated further. It's an Audi long life history it has.

    i have emailed and rang Audi uk to complain that a car of this age shouldn't be having new pistons, not at this mileage, I mentioned all the forums, the service history and got the advisor to raise a complaint. A customer relations manager rang me today, he said they can not honor a goodwill repair, only the dealer can, it is their discretion, he can see my point of view and asked if I wanted him to call the service manager at my nearest Audi (Stockport). Hopefully I'll hear tomorrow to see if I can get it sorted.

    in all honesty, I am trying to get the car repaired by Audi as I want peace of mind, I want the Audi parts and the warranty, if I leave the garage I bought the car from to do it, I'm worried about the standard of repair (I don't know who they are?) and the cover after.

    sorry about the waffling but I wanted to share my story with you all. I am gutted and can't afford a £5k bill. Trust in the car is shattered right now, I just hope if it goes sorted it will last. Any advice from anyone or should I just carry on what I'm doing?

    Chers for reading!
  35. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Hi,
    Sorry to hear you have the issue but I think it is something that everyone that own these cars before 2012 will have. Can I carifiy the above where you got the pistons replaced by another garage for £200? Can I assume you meant spark plugs?
    There are 3 conditions that Audi will not touch the car under any circumstances if not met.
    1. Car must be under 124K miles, 2, it must have full Audi service history and 3, under 5 years old at point of first complaint. Also point 2 is backed up by a point that the bonnet must never have been lifted by anyone other than Audi. They are strict on this and if they find any evidence you have had work done by a n other they will show you the door. I fear you may have screwed this pooch getting the plugs done. However dealers vary and they may overlook this....
    There is also a semi point 4 that I was told by Audi and that is that if you buy the car outside the brand (like you and I did) you are much less likely to get anything.

    The saving graces are that i bought from outside the brand and after a £600 bill for the consumption tests and crank/software modification (paid for by the garage I bought the car from) I now have in writing from Audi UK HQ that they will cover the entire cost of repair if the pistons need changing.
    Also I was quoted £7.5K!!
  36. Pebble dasher
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    Pebble dasher Member

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    Hi AJM

    Thanks for your reply, you are right I meant Spark Plugs!! I see what you're saying and I'm only 66000miles, have the full Audi Service History and the car is under 5 years old, so I'm ok there. The only reason I've done the Spark Plugs is so I could get it back to the garage I got it from, it was going to cost me £200 to get it recovered. I still have the original ones, I don't know if I can get them refitted or not if I need to?

    I've just had the call back from the Customer Relations manager at Audi UK and he says that Audi Stockport have said if I pay for the first part of the Oil Consumption test (run it for 650miles) and they find oil is still being lost, they will contribute towards the cost for the second stage of rings etc. if needed. I have to call the dealer direct now, get the cost of the oil consumption test, then I'll call the garage I got the car from and tell them and see if they are willing to pay this. This is an absolute headache!!

    When I speak to the Senior Customer Service Manager, I am going to try again to see if nothing more can be done regards them doing it as goodwill. I just want to get it on the road again but not have to fork out even more money for a car which was at the top of my budget but as I thought was worth it..
  37. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    For info there is 3 parts to the test. First they drain all the oil weigh it, shove new in, then seal the engine and send you on your way. Hopefully you will do 621 miles (1000kms) then return where they will check how much it has used. However you return when the light comes on (mine did after 198 miles!) and they check then. They will then do the second part which involves fitting a device to the crank to increase the vacuum pressure and also a software update. Up to date this should cost you around £600 with deal contribution on parts of 70%. They will tell you that this fixes the problems in 80% of cases (it doesn't). You then have to go away and drive and see if or when the oil light comes on. The annoying thing is if like me you don't do many miles it can take weeks!
  38. Pebble dasher
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    Pebble dasher Member

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    Oh hell, sorry to hear you didn't last the 600+ miles. Last time I had it in, the guy said I am running the latest software, anything they do to the car ie. Sparks, if it doesn't take, they have to downgrade the software then upgrade it again and can amass to 3 hours labour? He lost me at this bit but I just think it's shocking.

    How did you get it all paid for? Were you just persistant, any tips on that one? And overall, how much were your garage happy to pay? Is the car ok now AJM?
  39. AjM
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    AjM Living in Blissful Ignorance

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    Very persistent, the dealers talked rubbish and I had to go to Audi UK head of CS then refuse to deal with the garage so that Audi did it for me. The dealer paid 70% of the parts for the first stages (£40) still leaving a £600 bill that the garage I bought the car paid for (non Audi). I am at the point now where I have to do some mileage to see if the pistons need to replaced and the engine rebuilt. But until the light comes on or I do 10K miles I won't know. I have it in writing from Audi UK that they will pay for the whole thing if that needs doing but the dealer would not pay a penny. It has taken me 3 months and a lot of stress to get to this point (all documented on this thread). But don't think like I did that because they do something for one they will do for another. They were very clear that the will treat every case individually and I have heard of people not paying a penny to paying £7K.
    What I will say is since having the car back with the mods, the engine sounds a lot meatier and there is much more low down grunt which is nice. I am not sure if this is due to the software update or not, but good so far!
  40. Pebble dasher
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    Pebble dasher Member

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    Well that is good news for you and I hope it works out, I was looking at your pics and it is a nice car, I like the alloys, I notice your chrome tailpipes are still shiny, not anything like mine ;o( I never got the chance to take many pics of it to be honest.

    Well I'm just waiting for a ring back from the Customer Service Senior Manager to see what I can sort out, I'm not feeling the fight today, I just feel beaten, it is so time consuming and draining trying to sort it out. I'd love to get my hands on a letter saying that Audi UK would pay for the whole thing should it get that far! I've been dealing with a guy called Vinshal at Audi UK, he is a customer relations manager, so far Audi UK have put all of the emphasis on the dealers discretion, it seems ironic. A Head office should surely have an authority over a dealer? Obviously not!

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