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Chipping and not telling

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by jiminniey2k, Mar 31, 2004.

  1. jiminniey2k
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    jiminniey2k New Member

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    My insurance is currently very high for my 1.8t sport. This is due to my age (youngish) and my lack of 'no claims bonus'. My first quote was "we will not be able to offer you insurance on that car" my second quote was for £1500+ but I finally managed to get that down to £800 through searches on the internet.

    Now to the point, I want to get it chipped so I can match the power of my mums's nissan 200sx and wipe that smile off her face as the is no longer able to burn me out. But i cant afford to tell the insurance people what i plan to do. what sort of risk is this running?

    My friend reckons chipping without telling is stupid as if anything happens to the car the first thing the insurance people will check is if the car has been modded in any way thus getting out of paying you any money whatsoever if you have an accident. Is this the case? how easily would they tell?

    It would be good to hear from people who have chipped and have the insurance covered and those who have not. Or is this a too dodgy subject and people will think im an insurance company spy or something.

    well let me know... thanks..
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  2. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    Both Revo and AMD have used the term "undetectable" when marketing their serial port switchable remap options. Of course this is marketing guff as all uploaded/ downloaded programmes are detectable with the right software (Revo leaves a signature in the code I think) but it does give you some indication of the odds of detection. Dealers don't detect switchable remapping with their standard diagnostic tools and in reality have little incentive to do so. Insurers are becoming increasingly aware of surrogate chipping, but so far I have not heard of a case where a claim was thrown out when undeclared chipping was discovered. If insurers were conducting standard chip checks before paying out on claims above, say, £1500, then I think we would have read about it in forum.


    My personal view is there is a very good chance of getting away with it. My advice is chip the car with Revo, tape the SPS1 under the dash (along with the '45) and, in the event of a smash, effect a switch back to stock, provided you're not limbless or unconscious.

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  3. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    jdp1962 said:
    I think you're missing the point here. You seem only to be concerned with the odds of detection, and how it might affect you. Accidents usually involve other people, be it damage to property, injury or maybe death. You might one day be the cause of an accident that causes death, injury or damage, following which your insurance is voided, just because you wanted to go faster than your Mummy.

    I think you might just have given a bit of clue as to why yuor insurance is so high in the first place. Grow up!



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bit harsh man
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  4. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Maybe it is, but think about it next time you're renewing your insurance, you've got a clean record, but it's still gone up again. These things are connected.
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  5. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    Oh I agree Jeff, but I don't think 45bhp is going to make much difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif At least he's insured, not like all the immigrant scum bombing about :S
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  6. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    excursion said:
    Oh I agree Jeff, but I don't think 45bhp is going to make much difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif At least he's insured, not like all the immigrant scum bombing about :S

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OK, let me put it another way. He chooses to chip the car, but doesn't tell his insurers. If an accident happens, & the insurer finds out about the mod, he's no more insured than the immigrant scum, & you and I pay for his "choice" in our renewal premium.

    Anyone else got a view?
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  7. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    jdp1962 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    excursion said:
    Oh I agree Jeff, but I don't think 45bhp is going to make much difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif At least he's insured, not like all the immigrant scum bombing about :S

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OK, let me put it another way. He chooses to chip the car, but doesn't tell his insurers. If an accident happens, & the insurer finds out about the mod, he's no more insured than the immigrant scum, & you and I pay for his "choice" in our renewal premium.

    Anyone else got a view?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    He's not going to get found out though is he.
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  8. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    My view is that:

    1. A rechip of any sort is unlikely to be spotted by dealers / insurers unless they specifically look. I saw an insurer assess a bent RS2 which involved walking round the car and checking the VIN

    2. If you make a fault claim, the insurer will ask lots of questions, have a look at the car and try to avoid paying out if there is a valid reason. The insurers are not all stupid and perhaps more importantly the police accident investigators are not stupid. If you are unlucky and seriously injure someone or worse and the investigators report identifies a rechip, the insurer will find out and the potential of a very sizeable 3rd party claim plus your own costs is on the cards.

    3. Based on 2. above, can you afford the very slim chance of tens of thousands of pounds worth of pay out if the [censored] does hit the fan? If not then tell the insurers, if they don't insure then put up with less power - surely ruining your life for the sake of saving a few hundred quid is not worth the risk?
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  9. Thorney
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    Thorney New Member

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    Cost of telling insurers of ramap - a few ££

    Cost of making someone a quadroplegic through an accident and the insurer finds out you're chipped and invalidates your insurance - your whole life. The injured party would sue you so you lose your house, your car and a % of your income to pay for their medical care.

    However unlikely I know which when a risk is simply too high. Doesn't mean I don't hate insurance companies cos they're still robbing gits.
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  10. sash
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    sash Member

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    Had to make a very large fault claim recently (well over 5k)and the accident assessor just looked at the car, looked at the mechanics estimate, said ok and pi**ed off home. Claim was processed in less than 2 weeks. The guy didnt even open the bonnet.

    Thing is no one else was involved, well no one else was claiming from my insurer. The mechanic told me (does a lot of insurance work) usually if there are no other parties involved and you are making a fault claim and you havent lied about any details such as driving convictions etc then they just pay out as long as there is nothing visually different about your car.

    Most damage assessors wouldnt even know where to look for your ecu and if they did what would they be looking for???

    You could keep a spare ecu handy. When your car is involved in an accident get it taken to a local mechanic who you know, your insurer should allow you to pick your own repairer as long as the quotes not too high, and get him to change out the ecu before the investigators arrive.

    PS im not suggesting anyone do this, just a way around the problem of insurers finding out about the chip
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  11. Patrick
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    Patrick Member

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    I personally didn't tell my insurance company about my last chipped S4.

    I have mixed feelings on the subject. To be honest if I was to chip my RS4… well .. I'd probably not tell them, although dare I say the decision would be based almost entirely on how much of an uplift on my premium they were after!

    I think the chances of them looking even discovering the re-map are slim. Unless you make it obvious your car is far from stock. i.e nitrous bottles, coil over suspension an outrageous diameter exhaust system etc etc.

    But there is no denying the real issue is with event of a third party being involved in any claim. That's the moral dilemma. What if they were to sue?
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  12. miker
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    miker Member

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    I suspose morally the possible quadroplegic wouldn't care if you paid £600 or told the insurers and paid £800 it is still going to hurt and the chip may not have been to blame anyway. I suspect when you have a chip you only use its full potential 10% of the time.

    I know its no real argument...

    I spoke to my insurers yesterday about my new alloys and whether I needed to tell them or not - The reply - It only matters if you intend to be paid extra in the event of theft. I said I wasn't bothered she said OK. end of...

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  13. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Madix said:
    I suspose morally the possible quadroplegic wouldn't care if you paid £600 or told the insurers and paid £800 it is still going to hurt and the chip may not have been to blame anyway.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Indeed, but the point is that your £100,000+ damages claim for loss of income / quality of life / continuing medical care etc will become YOUR personal resposibility as your insurance will be void if the insurers find out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #13
  14. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Madix said:
    I think insurers on the whole have got it easy. Over the years cars have become safer, speed limits have become more eforceable and security, as standard, has rendered all but the most advanced thief useless. And yet with all of this the premiums keep going up well in excess of inflation. How often do you hear of an insurance company going bust! Its not in their interest to try and not pay out all the time and I am sure they take a view that Chipping and the like goes on.

    Just remember the car is just as dangerous at 100 mph with or without the chip!

    glad to get that off my chest... Next they will want additional premium because I have bought better quality tyres that cost more!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Your post is based on the assumption that insurance premiums are only based on risk of theft of or from the car. It's a bit more complex an issue than that. Cost of repairs is a big factor. We all know that cars are much more technologically advanced now, but we forget that all that tech costs money. I heard a story about a manufacturer who added ABS to a model about 10 years ago, hoping it would bring it into a lower insurance group. Unfortunately, they fitted all the expensive ABS hardware into the front of the car, just behind the radiator. The result was that the cost of repairing a front end shunt went up by about 25%, so the insurers put it into a higher group.

    And then of course, there is driver behaviour. The other reason premiums keep going up is that more & more people drive like w@nkers, have accidents that damage other peoples' property (and their own!) and kill and injure them.

    Cars might have become safer, but it's the same old idiots who drive them.

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  15. miker
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    miker Member

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    I understand. And I understand Nothing is easy, straightforward or simple in this world compared to 15 years ago. I keep finding myself saying "the world has gone mad" Insurance is a world to its own and the rules are written by people with shareholders to consider rather than innocent parties. I know its sounds cynical but I can't help thinking that like in general is more complicated as every year goes by.

    Maybe its just me. Anyway rant over.

    ... and take it careful out there guys and girls it's a jungle out there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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  16. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    Yes pity the young ones like myself who have to face obscene house prices etc!

    What dosen't kill us makes us stronger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  17. ultrasporta4vk05
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    ultrasporta4vk05 Member

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    Has anyone actually got caught chipping there car, without telling the insurance company.. and whats the odds of those insurance dudes finding the chip? I looked in Neuspeeds warranty page, and they have a website http://www.sema.org/warranty that explains the warranty, might wanna check it out first.
    #17

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