Cambelt + Rod change question

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Tom93

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Going to do both these jobs in one go... What order should i do it in?

Does the head come off without touching the engine mount bracket?

I was thinking head off and send to machine shop.
Sump off rods out and swap whilst i wait.
Head back on.
Then cambelt, water pump etc, but just cut the cambelt off the cam pulley at the beggining to get the head off?

Just thinking how im going to go about this...
 
you cannot remove the head without supporting the engine by a crane or trolley jacks as a mount is joined to the head - but as you also want to take off the sump it will be a juggling act, as the crane connects to the head and the alternative is to support on the sump.

when I needed to change the exhaust on my old camper van it actually was easier to remove the whole engine.
 
Tom93 said:
Does the head come off without touching the engine mount bracket?
Click to expand...

Yes

Tom93 said:
..I was thinking head off and send to machine shop.
Sump off rods out and swap whilst i wait.
Head back on.
Then cambelt, water pump etc, but just cut the cambelt off the cam pulley at the beggining to get the head off?
Click to expand...

...again, yes... but change the tensioner damper while the head is off... you will need to undo the engine mount to get to it sadly...

Also fit the new pump while the heads off... all easier to get too...

<tuffty/>
 
Ok so the cambelt is all that holds the head to the block on that side? Just remove exhaust, inlet, coolant flange and any assorted sensors, cam position and vvt then head bolts and itll come off?

That makes sense Tuffty try to change as much of the belt stuff as possible with the head out the way.
 
Stuart B said:
you cannot remove the head without supporting the engine by a crane or trolley jacks as a mount is joined to the head - but as you also want to take off the sump it will be a juggling act, as the crane connects to the head and the alternative is to support on the sump.
.
Click to expand...

Wrong
 
yeah I realise that now after tufty description - I thought you needed to juggle with a crane or jacks to change the timing belt - so assumed you needed to also do the same to remove the head. or can you also change the timing belt without removing the engine mount?
 
Stuart B said:
yeah I realise that now after tufty description - I thought you needed to juggle with a crane or jacks to change the timing belt - so assumed you needed to also do the same to remove the head. or can you also change the timing belt without removing the engine mount?
Click to expand...

Engine mount will need to come off to replace the belt... sorry, I didn't make it clear in my response as the OP was on about cutting the belt to take the head off in which case you won't need to remove the mount for that part of the procedure..

..but, to clarify.... you can remove the head without removing the mount if you cut the belt or try and slide it off at least (I always replace the belt on mine regardless of age whenever I have had to remove the head for various reasons that are fully documented in my thread lol) but you will need to undo and manipulate the mount to fit a new belt as it goes either side of one on the mount fixing points...

Its easier to do with the head off anyway so you can TDC the crank, get the belt in place, fit the pump, fit a new tensioner damper then bolt the mount back on and drop on the head...

The pin for the tensioner damper can be a bit of a ****** to get too after of course but its all part of the joy that is doing a cambelt on one of these :)

...just don't pull it until you are 100% sure you are timed up... 20v's have a habit of dropping back a tooth and you will get an incorrect correlation fault code... then you have to make a tool to compress the damper back enough to slide the belt off and try again... I have done it a couple of times... its easy to do even when you know it could happen

<tuffty/>
 
I was reading on the tt forum a guide on cambelt on a 225 motor which is pretty similar from what i could gather. But the chap on there (from what i understand) spun the motor over by hand to check the timing before pulling the pin on that tensioner/damper whatever it is, plausible? Im going to mark the old belt and transfer markings to the new one just to be safe aswell.
 
Tom93 said:
I was reading on the tt forum a guide on cambelt on a 225 motor which is pretty similar from what i could gather. But the chap on there (from what i understand) spun the motor over by hand to check the timing before pulling the pin on that tensioner/damper whatever it is, plausible? Im going to mark the old belt and transfer markings to the new one just to be safe aswell.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can do that... just don't yank on the crank too hard as its possible to jump a tooth there

<tuffty/>
 
When you go that far why not re-hone the cilinders and put new rod bearing and piston rings on it ?
 
nick-s3 said:
When you go that far why not re-hone the cilinders and put new rod bearing and piston rings on it ?
Click to expand...
Thats why the heads coming off. The cambelt is years overdue so i figured if that had to come off the head might aswell also.
 
I assumed from your first post you are fitting uprated rods while doing this work?

<tuffty/>
 
std rings i expect you will see the larger numbers in old bores and that old post was relative to bore size.
see where yours end up out of the box in your bores first
 
I only meant relative in the sense that we are all 5 years older and wiser and they might not be whats used nowadays, not upto date, so to speak lol. Weathers hitting me hard down here at the minute so not sure ill get chance to do it today :(
 
So here we are, pretty uniform across the board.



Can they just go straight in or should the second ring be different?
 
Ok another question. The rods dont appear to be directional, so should i have the bigend bearing tangs on the exhaust side or inlet side? And obviously the small bump missing from the piston lip is inlet side?
 
Tom93 said:
Ok another question. The rods dont appear to be directional, so should i have the bigend bearing tangs on the exhaust side or inlet side? And obviously the small bump missing from the piston lip is inlet side?
Click to expand...

Tangs towards inlet as per OE

<tuffty/>
 
Ready for action.

 
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superkarl said:
where did you measure them in the bore?
the gaps will very top to bottom, so its important to get the range of gaps so you know your max
Click to expand...
he will have no choice as to max gaps... the important for seal is the top section as thats where its going to need to be sealing 100% compression
if bores are worn, its rebore time
 
Had an accident last piston going in and somehow chipped the second compression ring, that ring has some kind of lip on it and ive caught that. Anyone got a second compression ring they can send me? :( wah.
 
Ok so timing the engine back up, set the crank at tdc via the flywheel mark, head at tdc also and mate the two. Then when it comes to actually putting the belt on, it should be as easy as pull tight from the crank up over the cam pulley and they should be fine?
 
Ok this was way easier to take apart than out back together :/

I cant get the head on now the inlet manifold flange seems to be resting on the alternator bracket, not sure if it should be underneath or no where near, the head is quite happy sat there, and feels like its caught on the dowels at the back but theres a bit of movement across the head diagonally and it just doesnt seem quite right :/
 
Ok need more help, still struggling. The turbo face wont meet the manifold face, its like 10/20mm off and it just wont come up any more. I dont want to bolt the head down yet incase i have to faff around with the turbo more, should i be able to join the faces by hand? Or do i just bolt the head down and then send the manifold bolts down there to pull it up?
 
Is the turbo still attached to the support bracket? if so I would undo it to give you a bit of flexibility in movement... you may also find having someone moving the exhaust/DP will help as all this will be acting on the turbo to prevent it lining up...

It will be easier once you get at least one bolt in as you can pivot on it... leave it loose until you have started the threads on the rest...

<tuffty/>
 
The support bracket bolt is out and the downpipe is on the turbo studs but not bolted. Could try unbolting it lower down i suppose...
 
If the DP is not fixed on then lift it off the studs as you are not going to gain much leaving it there at this time...

Its a pain in the ar5e fo sho but try looking at the three bolt holes and get a bolt in the easiest one... tighten it up (not torqued but enough that the faces are flat to each other) then back the bolt off half a turn to a turn until the turbo rotates on the bolt then try the other two...

Key things is to get at least one bolt in and the other two in a position that you are not screwing the bolt in at an angle that could potentially cross thread the fixing

<tuffty/>
 
I havent bolted the head on yet though, was too scared to do it incase it makes this problem harder to sort :/ so i cant try and catch any bolts because obviously the head tips back... Should i get that bolted down? Its killing my back and legs lifting it off and on lol
 
Nah i got the head part figured out, now torqueing down, also got the turbo manifold bolts in, positive progress! Little confused about the torque specs though, workshop manual says 40nm+90+90 but the sheet that came with the head set says 40nm+60nm+90+90....

Ive done 40NM 60NM +90. Should i stop or go the extra 90?
 
Ok so how do i get the cambelt on? Just seems too tight :/
 
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