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Audi A4 Cabriolet Soft Top/ Roof / Hood Motor Repair Guide

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by VagPro, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Sep 25, 2011]
    Hello All,

    I tried closing the hood one day and it did not want to budge. After closing it manually and a bit of trouble shooting I found it was the electric motor which drives the hydraulic pump which was faulty.

    Symptoms: Roof unlatches but does not open, storage compartment unlatches but does not close, no noise from hydraulic unit (in RHS in boot), unit starts working after a few light taps with a soft mallet.

    All the above can be due to poor conduction between the motor commutator and motor brushes.
    The cause of this is that the brushes get stuck in the brush carriers and do not make good contact with the communicator, this in turn leads to arcing and poor contact. The issue is resolved by cleaning the commutator and prevented by prying open the brush carriers (gently) to allow the brushes to move freely again.


    Here is what I did to get my motor working again :) (As you would expect please do so at your own risk I accept no responsibility)


    So I started off by removing the boot rubber channel then the rear cross panel trim,

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4 Cab Roof Motor Repair/Removing and installing rear cross panel trim.pdf

    [​IMG]

    Removing the right side trim

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4...ing and installing side trim (right-side).pdf

    but before this panel can be removed the hinge for the hood storage compartment has to be removed, be careful not to drop the washer between the hinge and the bodywork

    [​IMG]

    Unclip at the back

    [​IMG]

    The trim should then slide out towards the rear of the car (slide past the hood storage compartment)

    [​IMG]

    You should then be somewhere here, then remove the wiring plug to the 12v power socket and the boot light

    [​IMG]

    Once this panel is removed, remove the three bolts holding the amplifier

    [​IMG]

    Move the amplifier to the side for easy access to the hydraulic pump

    [​IMG]

    You should now have access to the hydraulic pump, proceed to removing the three nuts holding the pump down

    [​IMG]

    Now before you let loose at dismantling the motor housing do something I did not do (and learnt the hard way), MARK the position of the motor casing with a black marker
    [​IMG]


    Unclip the relays from the relay carrier

    [​IMG]


    Now you are ready to remove the motor cover, open the 7mm bolts (make sure you have marked the position of the housing)

    [​IMG]

    Pull the housing, bear in mind that the magnets will provide some resistance


    [​IMG]

    So now you can see the problem, dirty commutator

    [​IMG]

    So I got some 800 wet and dry paper, held it in place with a screw driver and turned the motor by hand until it cleaned up

    [​IMG]

    Once the surface is clean, use a stanley blade to clean any debris in the slots on the commutator[​IMG]


    And there you have it, a nice clean commutator

    [​IMG]

    Reassemble with a touch of grease on the end bearing not forgetting to line up the markings you did earlier and you should be all sorted !!
    The next step is to stop the problem reoccurring by prying open the brush carriers, insert a small screwdriver between the small slot in the brush carriers and gently pry them open, then pull the brushes back and confirm they spring back freely towards the commutator. See picture below


    a4.jpg

    I have attached some other files which I pulled of Elsa on A4 Cabriolet roofs, these are below:

    General Information on Hydraulic System

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4...r/General Information on hydraulic system.pdf

    Exploded View of Convertible Top

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4 Cab Roof Motor Repair/Exploded View of Convertible Top.pdf

    Exploded View of Hydraulic System

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4 Cab Roof Motor Repair/exploded view of hydraulic system.pdf

    Block Diagram of Hydraulic System (This is in case you want to know how it really works !!)

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4 Cab Roof Motor Repair/Block diagram of hydraulic system.pdf

    Wiring Diagrams for Electric Hood

    2003 Onwards


    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4 Cab Roof Motor Repair/Electric Hood Wiring Diagram 2003 on.pdf

    2005 Onwards

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38150502/A4 Cab Roof Motor Repair/Electric Hood Wiring Diagram 2005 on.pdf

    Good luck ! In case of any queries, or if you would like any more information of the workshop manual drop me an email

    khurrumsattar@hotmail.com
    facebook.com\VProUK
    I have recently had a number of emails and requests for other roof related issues and for carrying out the procedure above. Although I work full time as an Engineer I can assist for a small fee (to cover my time). So please do not hesitate to contact me !!
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2013
    #1
    Bikertov, Marklar, sirjonboy and 10 others like this.
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  3. Abb
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    Abb Member

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    [Sep 25, 2011]
    Well done mate, fanatstic write up!
    #2
    VagPro likes this.
  4. RMH1A4cab
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    RMH1A4cab I'm in Cruise control

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    [Sep 25, 2011]
    Hope I never have to use it but great write up I'm sure it will help some in the future .
    #3
    kevgreek likes this.
  5. rjm180
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    rjm180 Member

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    [Sep 25, 2011]
    Likewise, Many Thanks Krumz
    #4
  6. My4tt91
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    My4tt91 New Member

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    [Oct 1, 2011]
    Awesome write up mate!! Exactly the same things just happened to my mum’s car. Hopefully this will solve the problem otherwise it looks like the local Audi dealers Christmas bonus is on her!
    #5
  7. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Oct 1, 2011]
    Alrite mate, just been in touch with someone else whose roof failed yesterday ! looks like the Audi's dont like the weather lol. Hope you get on ok, if not feel free to drop me a line. I will NOT let you take it to Audi lol
    #6
    Babasanalex likes this.
  8. My4tt91
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    My4tt91 New Member

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    [Oct 2, 2011]
    Krumz i would just like to thank you very much!!! I followed your guide and the roof is now working again, thank you
    #7
  9. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Oct 3, 2011]
    Glad it helped :) thanks for the feedback
    #8
  10. andymac1
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    andymac1 New Member

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    [Oct 8, 2011]
    Hi Krumz,
    Thanks for the info, I'm gutted , thought this may fix the issue as I have identical symptoms, but alas no, still just opened and inch and nothing else happens.
    Took it to audi the other day and they charged me £98 to tell me they would need another 2 hours to try to diagnose the issue..have no idea what to do now.....:-( but will not be taking it back to audi.
    #9
  11. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Oct 8, 2011]

    Hi Andy,

    Very wierd indeed, have you tried connecting a multimeter to the motor I see if the control
    Unit is sending any power to it ?
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
    #10
  12. andymac1
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    andymac1 New Member

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    [Oct 9, 2011]
    Hi,
    unfortunately my skills in this arena are very limited, I am ok with following guides, like your VERY detailed and clear one, but when it comes to in depth analysis etc, I am restricted.
    I may know someone who would know about the electrical side of things so will give them a shout,
    I think I may have to bite the bullet and take it to the local VAG specialist garage, my fault for buying this type of car.
    Thanks for the info though appreciate it, and guides like yours save some people lots of money.
    #11
  13. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Oct 9, 2011]
    Andy, sounds like your loosing the will to live !! I am more than willing to take you through it step by step, however if you feel like taking it to the stealers then your call. Otherwise have you got access to vagcom ?
    #12
  14. andymac1
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    andymac1 New Member

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    [Oct 9, 2011]
    hahaha, not quite yet, on the way though, looks like the engine ecu needs replacing also, so 2 major issues at the same time ,which is why I may sound a little down with the car,
    I have asked a friend and he says he will come round and check out the motor with a multimeter for me out for me.
    For vagcom, I bought a cable and shareware from the internet but it does not have access to all the ecu data.
    The roof ecu does not get interrogated by my version.
    #13
  15. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Oct 9, 2011]
    ECU needs replacing ? Whats happened there ??? Yes mate best thing to do is get someone with the full version of Vagcom to have a look at it for a start. Drop me a line when you do....
    #14
  16. Bollomatron
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    Bollomatron New Member

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    [Oct 17, 2011]
    You have no idea how much love I have for you right now..... You saved me almost £600 !!!

    Did exactly as per your instructions and now my roof works perfectly!!!

    If you are having issues with your roof, especially if sopmetimes it works and sometimes it doesnt, then follow these instructions and check your motor commutators... less than 99p to fix and about 2 hrs work :)
    #15
    kevgreek and VagPro like this.
  17. cotterlisab
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    cotterlisab New Member

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    [Nov 22, 2011]
    Krumz
    Excellent post, however can you recall whether any warning signals came up on the display panel when the hood wouldn't close? I've had the same problem with my roof opening but not closing (2006 Audi A4 2.0 TDI ) since Sept . An orange warning light comes up on my display panel when I put the key in the ignition before starting the car. The warning light flashes 10 times and then disappears.

    I brought it to Audi Service Unit in Dublin and they maintain they've never seen this problem before. Despite having put the car through diagnostics and mechanic spending 4 hours on it so far they still need more time to fix it. Am not impressed by their lack of expertise!

    Thx
    #16
  18. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Nov 23, 2011]
    Hello Cotterlisab,

    Yes the warning light did come on in the dash and I did not have any fault codes. However my roof did not open or close at all....

    Can you describe what exactly happens, does the roof open automatically but struggle when you try to close it ?
    #17
  19. bearder2006
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    bearder2006 Member

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    [Nov 24, 2011]
    krumz
    a up pall mine as gone again so going to have a go this weekend if i get in trubble i will give you a bell if you dont mind
    #18
  20. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Nov 24, 2011]
    Hi Jay,

    No probs, can you believe it so has mine !!! Must be the swing in temperature ....
    #19
  21. Danne980
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    Danne980 Swede

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    [Nov 26, 2011]
    Wow impressive writeup. I have never been on this forum before but after reading material like this i joined. I have searched for help with my roof on my 2003 A4 cab but think that this isnt my solution (my roof raises a little bit and vag-com code is something like this: "02000 switch position- 008 implausible signal".

    Just wanted to tell you that i was impressed by the helpfulness here.
    #20
  22. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Nov 26, 2011]
    Danne, appreciate the feedback. It would be interesting to know how you get onn with your roof, if send me the fault code and switch description and I'll email u the relevant pages for switch replacement off ELSA
    #21
  23. Danne980
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    Danne980 Swede

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    [Nov 26, 2011]
    I am kind of stuck.

    Did your roof not move at all or? Why i am asking is that i think the "latches / hooks" that fastens the roof to the front windowframe might lift the roof a little bit before it would start to raise. Then mayby my hydraulic unit also is broken? But i do have that error code...

    Secound thing I am looking into is the operating requirements:

    004,1,Operation,Requirements,See Label File
    ; 1x-xx-xx = Surroundings NOT OK
    ; x1-xx-xx = End Position NOT OK
    ; xx-1x-xx = Request: Lock Cylinder Closed
    ; xx-x1-xx = Request: Lock Cylinder Open
    ; xx-xx-1x = Rear Lid Locked
    ; xx-xx-x1 = Request: Rear Lid Locking

    My vag-com shows 11-00-00 here.


    Third: It might be my windows, all windows works in vag-com when checking percentage. But on the "code" it loks like they arent moving. These numbers belowe should "engage" when the windows are manuvered? My rear windows is going from 100% to about 10% when full down. Front is 100-0.

    002,4,Window Regulator,Operation,See Label File
    ; xxxxxxx1 = Window Regulator Driver: Up
    ; xxxxxx1x = Window Regulator Driver: Down
    ; xxxxx1xx = Window Regulator Passenger: Up
    ; xxxx1xxx = Window Regulator Passenger: Down
    ; xxx1xxxx = Window Regulator Rear Left: Up
    ; xx1xxxxx = Window Regulator Rear Left: Down
    ; x1xxxxxx = Window Regulator Rear Right: Up
    ; 1xxxxxxx = Window Regulator Rear Right: Down

    Sorry for my really bad english. Dont write much english since school and auto correction is on swedish.

    EDIT: English version of vag-com is easier to understand than the swedeish one. I got the swe one and not when i copy from another printout from the english one i start to understand what some of these rows of text really says.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
    #22
  24. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Nov 28, 2011]
    Jay,

    I opened mine up over the weekend and found the same problem again (dirty commutator). When checking the brushes I found that one of the brushes was not moving freely in the carrier, leading to poor contact and in turn more arcing. I have since then put a drop of WD 40 on the brush carrier and worked it free. (See white arrow)

    [​IMG]
    #23
  25. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Nov 28, 2011]
    Hi Danne,

    When the roof is out of sync then you will get fault codes such as implausible signal. My roof did open slightly (as the latches opening the roof will push the roof up slightly) but following that I got no noise indicating the hydraulic pump it working.

    I would recommend to check if the motor on the hydraulic control unit is getting any power by connecting a multimeter to it....
    #24
  26. bearder2006
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    bearder2006 Member

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    [Dec 10, 2011]
    yes mine was just the same as yours pall so all done now working fine lets hope it lasts thank jay
    #25
  27. Drewster
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    Drewster New Member

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    [Jan 13, 2012]
    Hi guys would love some help !!!!
    Have taken car to local specialist (not Audi) who whilst I was there connected it up to diagnostics and appeared that no faults found but some switches not in right position. I left the car there and had a bill for £125 but have been told that the switches are now in the right position but motor needs replacing, and this may not nessecarily cure it as it may be the control unit £1000 plus labor & vat !!!! Have tried the brush cleaning etc but to no avail
    Please advise anybody please!!!
    #26
  28. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Jan 14, 2012]
    Hi Drewster,

    Lets take this step by step

    1- if your hood motor did stop working then you will error codes about the switches in the wrong position

    2- When you said you have cleaned the brushes but no avail ? Please explain

    3- have you put a multimeter to check if the motor is getting any power ?
    #27
  29. Drewster
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    Drewster New Member

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    [Jan 18, 2012]
    Hi Krumz

    Thanks for the reply !

    1, apparanteley was told by the diagnostics that the system was running ok, but when he went into it further he said that some of the switches were in the postion. ie position 1 not 0

    2 cleaning brushes i have basically removed the motor as per the above threads and used some light wet & dry to clean the cotact surfaces.

    3, I have not tested for power but the garage that i had taken the car told me that there was power at the motor. I suggested that if there was power and if we changed the motor surely it would work as the control unit would have given it the power to do so. But apparanteley that is not the case !!!

    What do you think ?

    Many thanks for your help
    Is it worth a main dealer or other audi specialist visit for a second opinion ??
    #28
  30. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Jan 19, 2012]
    Hi Drewster,

    I have no concern about the switches being in the wrong position as long as they are showing the correct position once reset.

    There is a connector from the control unit which provides power to the motor (black and red wire), I would say plug a multimeter on that connector and see if the motor is getting any power, If:

    -You are getting power and you cannot hear the motor turning then I would say replace the motor (£180.00 from Audi)
    -You are not getting power to the motor then we will have to investigate further.

    I am an anti Stealer person so would never take it to them :-/
    #29
  31. Drewster
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    Drewster New Member

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Krumz
    Many thanks for the reply.
    Im a bit new to this forum malarcky so didnt know you had replied as i thought i would have had an e-mail reminder !

    I will look at replacing the motor, kids have rinsed my account from xmas so havent got the money at the moment. Just as well we live in this country with the beautifull all year roof down weather !!!

    Will let you know how i get on when motor replaced.

    Fyi my car is a 57 plate with 29k on the clock, wouldnt have thought i would get motor problem with having such little use, but i suppose this could also be the problem !

    Many thanks for the help.
    #30
  32. naffy121
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    naffy121 New Member

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    [Feb 7, 2012]
    hi there can some one please help me, as i own a A4 convertable 2005 model. the roof goes up and down with out a problem but will not lock when fully up, has to be done manually... gave it to a garage they said it was a faulty sensor in the roof which was replaced at the cost of £140 including labour but the roof still dont lock. grarage reckon its the locking motor in the roof... please some one help?
    #31
  33. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Feb 7, 2012]
    Hi naffy,

    Did they put it on a diagnostic and look at the the readings from the limit switches before they said it was faulty ?
    #32
  34. BernS
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    BernS New Member

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    [Mar 3, 2012]
    Hi,
    I'm not sure my problem relates to this but this seems about the best place to get help!...

    I've an Audi A4 2.0 S-Line convertible (56 plate). The problems started with the usual flashing roof warning light on the dashboard. However, the roof continued to work (albeit occasionally it would stop and I'd have to press the button a couple of times to get it to continue to close/open).

    More recently the roof opens successfully, but when closing it gets stuck about half-way, with the roof "cover" (the top bit of the boot), threatening to close down on the glass of the back window of the roof (like it gets out of synch and is confused about what state of folding the roof is in). At that point the roof would stop (fortunately!) and I'd have to close the roof manually. It continues to open automatically successfully and fail to close in the same manner.

    Any suggestions/thoughts?

    Cheers,
    Bern
    #33
  35. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Mar 4, 2012]
    Hello bern, sounds like its going out of sync. Have you checked the fault codes ?
    #34
  36. big smudge 579
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    big smudge 579 New Member

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    [Mar 5, 2012]
    krumz mate much appreciate the diagram you sent me , ive got a lad looking at it today for me and ill give him the info , thanks mate much appreciated.
    #35
  37. BernS
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    BernS New Member

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    [Mar 5, 2012]
    Hi Krumz,
    Thanks for the speedy response - No - don't have the appropriate lead... About to take it to a specialist - do you think it's worth me getting a lead and checking the codes? (or in the end is it likely that it'll need to go to the specialist anyway...?)
    Thanks!
    #36
  38. VagPro
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    VagPro Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2012]
    Hi Bern,

    I would recommend to get the codes read first to see what your dealing with, if it's a switch I can send you the info on how to replace it from the workshop manual....
    #37
  39. Amason007
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    Amason007 Member

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    [Mar 6, 2012]
    Hi Bern,

    Try this, it worked for me.

    With the ignition on, but engine not running, open and close the roof manually a couple of times in the exact same sequence it would automatically. i.e. open the front first, pull hood back half way, open rear compartment, fold roof into the rear compartment and lock rear compartment.

    Then in reverse i.e. open rear compartment, lift out roof half way, close rear compartment and lock it, close roof completely and lock it.

    Do this a couple of times with the ignition on. This worked for me and re-set the switch positions.

    Good luck,

    Andy
    #38
  40. BernS
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    BernS New Member

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    [Mar 6, 2012]
    Thanks Krumz & Andy,
    I'm sure this is posted elsewhere but here goes anyway... any suggestion re: purchasing the lead (i.e. not getting ripped off but getting one that works, etc), and the software?...

    Andy - I'll try your suggestion of open & closing manually a few times -any particular position the windows should be in?...
    #39
  41. Amason007
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    Amason007 Member

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    [Mar 6, 2012]
    Bern,

    I just left the windows in the closed position. Don't forget to make sure your ignition in on!


    Andy

    Bern,

    On second thoughts, as it was a while ago I had to do this, I MUST have had the windows in the OPEN position....of course!

    Andy
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
    #40

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