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Anyone else with this problem on 2006 2.0 TDi? Injectors...

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by jfarhead, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. marky67
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    marky67 Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    Possibly genuine!!!
    cause it's full of spelling mistakes and grammar not very good.

    Jus wot yew wood xpect from a profeshional orginisashun....!!!
  2. Richardesty
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    Richardesty loves quattro

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    Watchdog? It would be good to see Anne get the bit between her teeth, whilst promoting the forum!
  3. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    Dear VOSA, seeing as you always seem to be out of office everytime I email you, I'll call you out here in public...

    Why aren't any of the other 1000s of owners not being informed about this defect?
    Why is the support only for the owners who already know about it and are chasing compensation and swaps?
    Why is VAG only dealing with UK forum customers, and ignoring everyone else abroad? Some lives worth more than others?

    I don't care that a recall will cost them millions, honestly I don't. Everything done so far has been damage control to keep the people already affected quiet. We pay year in year out for MOTs to make sure our vehicles are within 0.001 tolerance of some stupid emission test and yet you are happy to have 18,000+ timebombs rolling around the country waiting for their injectors to fail.

    I'd be only too happy to have you face Watchdog and answer for VAG's lack of real action. I'm sure you'll have a generic response ready for them right? Maybe even an out of office?
  4. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    I think quite a few people, including myself, have already contacted watchdog and had no reply.

    The more the better though - it may make them take it up eventually.
  5. vosa
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    vosa New Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    VOSA have now received enough information on the injector defects and do not require any more reports to be sent in us.
    If you have suffered or think that you may experiance this fault in the future, you should contact the relevant customer support group for your vehicle type.

    Volkswagen (Tel 0800 0833914)
    Jenny Boyd
    Stefan Elliott

    Audi (Tel 0800 699888)
    Victoria Carter
    Isabelle
    Lindley
    Jane Jones

    Seat (Tel 0500 222222) & Skoda (Tel 08457 745745)
    Simon Ackroyd
    Ian Walsh Osm
  6. ldavis
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    ldavis New Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    Perhaps my initial explanation was a bit misleading. I'll try again

    When driving (issue does not happen when out of gear) the car cruises along but you can feel a slight, but noticeable, interuption to the drive. I acan only explain it using this analogy. If you are using a hose pipe it has fast moving water going through. If someone steps on or pinches the hose momentarily it will interupt the flow but very quickly resume full flow.

    I have tried when out of gear slowly going through th erev range to see if i can hear or feel it replicat ethe issue but it is all smooth. I do get some shuddering when idle.

    As i said in my original post this has only started since the injectors were replaced. I have a service and MOT booked soon and will bring it up with Audi.

    I would really like to hear if anyone else is experiencing this issue.

    Also sad to see that maybe the new injectors are not the answer. The more i hear about these models the more i reget buying an Audi. I appreciate cars have problems but its the unknown element that worries me.
  7. vosa
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    vosa New Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    VOSA have now received enough information on the injector defects and do not require any more reports to be sent in us.
    If you have suffered or think that you may experiance this fault in the future, you should contact the relevant customer support group for your vehicle type.

    Volkswagen (Tel 0800 0833914)
    Jenny Boyd
    Stefan Elliott

    Audi (Tel 0800 699888)
    Victoria Carter
    Isabelle
    Lindley
    Jane Jones

    Seat (Tel 0500 222222) & Skoda (Tel 08457 745745)
    Simon Ackroyd
    Ian Walsh Osm
  8. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    @VOSA, are your inboxes too full? Too many pissed off customers? To many fathers and mothers calling and asking about the vehicle safety? Diddums... get a bigger inbox, get VAG to recall the vehicles and you won't get the reports of families breaking down all over the country.

    Maybe if you focused on sending this info to your database of 170 owners nationwide it would be more useful, assuming you are actually VOSA, and not some troll spamming the forum.

    A manager on the Skoda site has said:

    "I received a bulletin with reference to this on 08/09/2011 from Skoda technical, and it states clearly that yes injectors will be replaced if a problem occurs with them, but only if a problem occurs. So should your vehicle develop a fault and it is diagnosed that the injectors are at fault then Skoda will give a gesture of good will and replaced all 4 injectors – But only if you have a faulty injector . It is not a product enhancement / recall."

    AFTER the problem occurs... AFTER! What's the point? People are worried about getting killed in these cars, how does that not get through their heads?? Getting a refund is great, but what good is a refund if my car cut out 50m ahead on the roundabout and I got taken out by a lorry? Is this some sick money saving joke?

    Without a recall, all these swaps and payouts are nothing more than bribes.

    Everyone. We should pick a day and have eveyone email into Watchdog... one email may get lost in the pile, but a couple of hundred will use up a small section of their inbox and at least put the issue up front.

    There are over 150 facebook users following this and increasing steadily, and there are half a dozen forums with another few hundered reading these. I don't see how one coordinated appeal to Watchdog could go unnoticed. All they have to do is call up anyone of us and we'll hand over what we know and all the sources, they'll be halfway there.

    Either way it's up to you guys... I've already send several emails to them, I've emailed magazines, recovery companies etc... nobody wants to do anything, everyone cites Data Protection...

    I cite Health and Safety and VAG are in breach, now do you guys care enough to act or was a refund post-failure enough? If the rumors are true about these new injectors being the same as the old ones, and nobody bothered to act now to get this out, then you'll be kicking yourself because in a couple of years or sooner when they fail AGAIN, these cars will be classed as "too old" and failure would conveniently be put down to "wear and tear"... the blame will shift to age...

    ...and you'll get the other installment of middle fingers straight on the invoice...

    It's up to you guys... I personally no longer own a 170... I'm just trying to help out before it gets burried like it was before this year.
  9. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    Can we all stop feeding the vosa troll please, do you really think vosa is going to post on car forums, and post the same post three times. When has a government agency ever posted on a forum saying please stop contacting us...

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  10. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 15, 2011]
    He's confirmed elsewhere as .vosa.gov.uk, bad spelling, childlike copy/paste and all...

    If you "THINK that you MAY experiance this fault in the FUTURE"... how will the owners know if nobody is contacting them and informing them of this case?

    If you are a clairvoyant, psychic , or a magic 8 ball, and think you may experience a fault you have not been informed about, please predict the numbers above and get it sorted... that's customer service for you...
  11. tonksie
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    tonksie New Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    my audi 170 tdi decided to cut out on sat the with all the symptoms as in all the previous posts but when the aa recovered the car back to mine(broke down in too dangerous a place to be looked at at the side of the road) he found no fault codes and said it might be fuel pump as car fired when he sprayed dampeaze in just wondered if this was the norm with failed injectors or it does point at the fuel pump i filled it full with fuel for our holiday the next day(we had to hire a car in the end)and wondered if this had anything to do with it? any help or info would most appreciated cheers
  12. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    I had the same thing, with the same diagnosis from the breakdown people. The car will fire with that stuff sprayed into it, but the injector was still very dead. At that point they usually misdiagnose it as a fuel pump failure, until you go to a garage and they work out it's actually an injector. Good luck with the repair!
  13. tonksie
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    tonksie New Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    cheers mate its a 2007 90000 miles but with full audi service history so do you reckon i phone audi or get it confirmed its the injectors first
  14. benr
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    benr Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    Phone audi with the info on this thread and tell them you want your injectors checking.

    They will all need to be checked for part numbers anyway so may as well get it into an audi dealer now.
  15. tonksie
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    tonksie New Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    just spoke to audi and am in the process of gettin my car to them today and will keep this post updated.cheers for the quick replies
  16. icenutter
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    icenutter Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    I'm yet another person with injector failure, with a happy ending this time.

    I got into my car at work to drive home drive and the engine stalled unexpectedly. It started again, but only after turning over several times. It was maybe running a bit roughly, but it wasn't that bad. On the way home it died again while I was on the M5, the engine just turned off and all the dashboard lights came on. I coasted to the hard shoulder, and again got it to start, but only after turning over for ages. I drove to a friends house, where it wouldn't start again.

    A VCDS scan showed;

    1 Fault Found:
    008518 - Supply Voltage for Fuel Injector Group A: Open Circuit
    P2146 - 009 - Open or Short to Ground
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 01000100
    Fault Priority: 0
    Fault Frequency: 3
    Reset counter: 40
    Mileage: 0 km
    Time Indication: 0

    The AA man couldn't get it to start (unsurprisingly) and I got a tow to Bristol Audi the following morning.

    The man at the service desk said, without me prompting, that he would look to get Audi to pay as a goodwill gesture. I also phoned Audi customer services, and again they said that they would replace all 4 if they were of the old design, again I didn't have to push too hard on this. He didn't take any of my details, but knew instantly about 'the problem.'

    A few days later someone from the Dealer called to say that they would replace all 4 as a goodwill gesture.

    All in all a good outcome considering the scare I had.
  17. tonksie
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    tonksie New Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    Just got it taken to audi and was met with smiles till i explained the situation then it was"leave it outside somewhere if you can find a space and we will look at it when we can" so i dont expect to hear back anytime this side of the weekend!
  18. benr
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    benr Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    Call audi uk. Tell them the situation and they will put pressure on the dealer. Tell them that you need your car.

    Bear in mind i got a courtesy car both times they had mine in for this issue (once for the inspection and once for the replacements)
  19. tonksie
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    tonksie New Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    i did ask about a courtesy car but they said they had none,not even the emergency one! do you reckon if i call audi they might get a move on then?
  20. benr
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    benr Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    Yep, id defo get a claim registered with Audi UK. They will then take on the case for you.

    With them you can also push for a courtsey car. TBH im sure if they had to then they would have a car you can take.
  21. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Sep 16, 2011]
    My experience with the dealerships is that they have a really bad attitude. It is because of them that I will never buy another Audi.
  22. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 17, 2011]
    I have always loved Audis and I love the A4, but this whole thing has given me a headache, and the fact they are actively ignoring customers abroad, and not even sending a circular to others who are going to break down next is sickening.

    If we stop sending VOSA forms, and VAG don't release failure/complaint figures under "Data Protection/Save my A$$" Act, then the problem is swept under the carpet... no numbers = no problem. VOSA is meant to be taking that stack and stuffing it in VAG's face for selling us **** and attempting to wash their hands on it (they had done early this year).

    I think we should pick a day and collectively contact Watchdog, it will take 2 minutes of everyone's time, and believe me there are hundreds between the forums and facebook... you won't regret it when it's on TV and VOSA/VAG are forced to answer the questions they're avoiding.
    leecool likes this.
  23. yazzy
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    yazzy New Member

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    [Sep 17, 2011]
    Hi, thanks for everyone who has contributed to this thread, it has been a real help
    Audi A4 2.0 TDi 2007 lost all power last week, AA called - diagnosed faulty No1 injector that had shorted out ECU, common fault with Audi I was told
    Called Audi Sheffield who did not recognise this as a fault and quoted over 2000 pounds for repair
    Repaired by an independent garage at a cost of 631.20 now running much smoother. Came across this forum and after following advice rang Audi 0800699888 and spoke to Ian, who was very helpful. He said he would investigate and ring me back Monday, but 99% sure that injectors and loom will be replaced FOC, and costs refunded.

    Will keep you posted, thanks again!
  24. tonksie
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    tonksie New Member

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    [Sep 17, 2011]
    Had a call back from the dealership today confirming that its the injectors and said they would be replacing all 4 injectors etc at no cost to me,just trying to sort out a courtesy car now whilst its bein done!!
  25. mm707
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    mm707 Member

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    [Sep 17, 2011]
    It's crazy that this is still happening
  26. bert-a4
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    bert-a4 Member

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    [Sep 17, 2011]
    Considered just buying a set of 2nd hand injectors or even a 2nd hand engine?! Surely it should be a much cheaper fix if youWish to get rid of it!
  27. yazzy
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    yazzy New Member

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    [Sep 19, 2011]
    got email back of vosa this morning. no contact of audi yet ?
  28. yazzy
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    yazzy New Member

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    [Sep 19, 2011]
    Had a call from Audi uk, Daniel Mccabe, who was very helpful. Asked to contact Audi Sheffield and speak to someone who was not there when I called. Had a few issues with them, still wanting to charge for diagnostics until Audi uk mentioned. Car now booked in for 28th Sept.
  29. leecool
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    leecool Member

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    [Sep 19, 2011]
    Hi guys just been reading some coments about problems with injectors. I have a 56 plate 2007 2.ltr tdi s-line sportback. I'm not having actual running probs, but when I turn the engine ova, it judders & shudders 2-3 times & once I've throttled up a bit it fires into life. Hot or cold its the same, dunno what it is, no big thing but after reading this I a bit peturbed. Only had the car 2.5wks, any ideas guys?
    cheers.
  30. yazzy
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    yazzy New Member

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    [Sep 19, 2011]
    to leecool we did not have starting problem and i am no exspert .But we did have a flat spot every now and then i dont know if this anything to do with the injectors. but it funny that our injector went straight after these symptoms
    leecool likes this.
  31. leecool
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    leecool Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    Hi yazzy thanks for the post.
    I'm not having probs with the car not starting, it fires up every time. I just get a judder & shudder on 1st turning the key. Its not smooth like it sould be!
    Whilst reading the thread, I've heard a lot said about the injectors. Why is this? was there a recall on them or something or is Audi aware of them & when they go can you demand a refit or owt? Also read that when you open the drivers door, the injectors are primed? Perhaps this is whats happening?
    Got me slightly worried having read the thread here.:think:
  32. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    I appreciate the thread is long so here is a summary:

    - There are no definite symptons that will indicate a failure is about to happen (flatspots, juddering, mpg reports vary between owners)
    - The thread is about defective Siemens injectors fitted to 170bhp 2.0L Audis
    - You can get them swapped (along with the loom) by calling Audi Customer services before they fail
    - This has been officially brought to VAG's notice this year. VOSA are in talks with them, reports on the results of these discussions vary and dealership application of anything agreed between VOSA and VAG also vary
    - If you have already paid for a repair of a failed injector previously, you can get reimbursed from Audi UK
    - There is no recall... yet
    - This thread is discussing the issue and working with other forums and owners locally and globally to raise awareness and press the matter

    ... Basically get them swapped along with the loom at your earliest convenience as these injectors are defective. It is all free of charge.

    You will find similar threads in various Skoda, VW and SEAT forums as some of their engines share this type of injector.
    leecool likes this.
  33. jfarhead
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    jfarhead Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    The last few official letters being sent out from the various VAG customer services have one theme in common:
    • They admit fault by refunding everyone
    • They admit fault by swapping the parts
    • They admit fault by not fighting the issue because they would lose
    Except they don’t ever mention they are at fault. As a result we have a few hundred owners who have been refunded, a thousand injectors swapped out… but no instruction from VOSA or VAG, and no attempt, to contact the rest of the 170PS owners who are running around with injectors known to be defective and known to fail.

    The safety decision has been made on behalf of these owners, until of course they fail, then they get the official letter, which pretends to look after them by issuing a “goodwill gesture” swap. The official letter also states that customers who feel they may get a failure may seek swaps…

    This is where the problem is… this letter is only sent to people who ALREADY know about the issue… what about everyone else?

    They don’t want the message to go public to the other owners. They have a duty to inform the customer of a safety issue and rectify it has been fulfilled… voluntarily. Our duty is not to turn a blind eye to this. Many things we benefit from every now and then are because a bunch of people like us, just got together and did it for everyone’s sake, from PPI scams to mislabelling food. A few fight, everyone else benefits.

    Please join us, everyone who has been actively pushing the issue for their own sake and for others, and everyone who has just dropping in to say they have bee affected… join us in contacting the BBC Watchdog to highlight the issue in hope that we can get this problem solved pre-emptively for everyone though a recall and not after the dangerous failure has already taken place.

    ==== BBC WATCHDOG APPEAL===================================
    ====RECALL 170PS VAG VEHICLES WITH DEFECTIVE SIEMENS INJECTORS===

    Date: Sunday 25[SUP]th[/SUP] September 2011
    Link: BBC Watchdog (Got a Story) BBC - Watchdog - - Got a story

    Form detail…
    Subject: Transport
    Sub Category: Cars

    Fill in the brief detail section as you see fit. The key points left to address in my opinion are:
    • There needs to be a recall
    • The injectors are know to be defective and VAG are avoiding a recall
    • There are 1000s of owners who will not be made aware of this defect
    • The problem affects 2.0L 170PS Skoda, VW Audi, and SEATs
    ==========================================================

    I will be sending my from on Sunday and I hope everyone else does too… if VOSA are complaining about too many forms being sent in, I am sure we have the ability to get this serious issue noticed for when they have their Monday morning meeting. I don’t want to spam them, I just want them to take notice. This will be a one off plea to get heard and I hope they notice.

    Please post on other forums and spread the word. Thanks to everyone in advance.
    yazzy and leecool like this.
  34. JDM82
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    JDM82 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    Took my car for a service today from a VAG specialist and asked him to check my EGR valve due to me losing power last week when I put my foot down. Went to collect my car and he gave me the usual print out of things that need doing. Normally I dont take any notice but something on this one caught my eye, "Possible injector or wiring fault" as well as " All glow plugs electrical fault"..... Does this sound like whats happening to you's guys?

    My car is 2005 2.0 TDI
  35. yazzy
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    yazzy New Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    I was having a similar problem for a couple of months prior to injector failing. Occasionally when I accelerated I got what seemed to be a flat spot and thought I would break down but changed gear and would carry on running. This would only happen now and again, but has not happened since injector changed. Also now seems to run much smoother.
  36. JDM82
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    JDM82 Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    Is this just a problem with the 170 and not the 140?
  37. yazzy
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    yazzy New Member

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    [Sep 20, 2011]
    all i can say mine is the 170
  38. Irish EK
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    Irish EK Member

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    [Sep 21, 2011]
    Does anyone know if this is also an issue woth the 140ps models?! My 2005 138bhp has 63k on it but has some of the symptoms mentioned above. Between this and the balance shaft failure i panic everytime i get into my car!
  39. Low Fuel
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    Low Fuel Member

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    [Sep 21, 2011]
    Its just the 170 models that have this problem, But if you contact Audi uk and say you are worried about your injectors as a safety issue they will check them free of charge even if you have the 140 model.
  40. leecool
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    leecool Member

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    [Sep 23, 2011]
    Lets do it!! My A3 is booked in for Monday, gonna get it diagnosed
    . They said over the phone that the engine in my 2006/07 2ltr Tdi 170 is NOT one of the engines affected. Well thats what their computer said! Is there 2 types of this engines in the A3's then?? Would have thought that would not be cost effective to VAG!?

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