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Another hybrid conversion thread....

Welly Sep 14, 2010

  1. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I must admit, it's disappointed everyone involved in this project.

    I will NEVER buy another 034 product based on this experience.

    Ever.
     
  2. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I have sent them this morning
     
  3. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    that should be interesting
     
  4. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    The thing is, a cast material change may well be whats required to fix the issue, but shrinkage rates post casting on another material may nett some other issues as yet unknown. It has porosity issues as is on the existing material, so gating and or the whole process used may be suspect. I have been thru casting sagas's an iterations in my day job previously, and its not uncommon teething issues, BUT, the material chosen looks to be as much use as a chocolate teapot. 30-40amps on my tig and this stuff was falling away like melted cheese, and outgassing/fizzing as the contaminants came to the surface. the Oe manifold I tried as a comparison had no such phenomena and needed higher amps to melt/weld. Crude test, but confirms my belief.

    there are materials like what I googled below which are designed for the high temp dutys they will see.

    http://www.cbmm.com.br/portug/sources/techlib/science_techno/table_content/sub_5/images/pdfs/053.pdf

    Other comment on the replacement shows a build up of sand on the mould from the previous cast on the webs, which to me shows there are cleaning issues of the core at the foundry if this is not checked. All symptums at face value of a very cheap foundry process being employed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  5. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    ^ broken link
     
  6. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    AKA Monkey metal...
    Ive used brass rods in the past for cracked cast, then set in bucket of sand, as ambient air cools it down to quick, but you are not going to get anywhere if the thickness is all over the place, cast is to brittle for temp fluctuations on the same piece.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  7. Barks

    Barks Member

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    What an absolute load of ****, and to think a lot of us (myself included), were ready to buy these up. Why would they risk their reputation for the sake of a few crappy manifolds, crazy

    Good investigation Guys, interesting read
     
  8. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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  9. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    thats good info for the future, not that repairing new cast manifolds is a good thing of course - lol
     
  10. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    They (INA/034) have been very cagey about information on these for months now..... but in the same token also been selling them to folks.
    *maybe* and this is pure speculation, is that the first batch was commissioned, of a qty of 30-50 or so, and initial samples let loose to some folks for "testing" (although only one set of test data has ever been seen, from the end user, not 034/INA) and subsequent to this, the balance of the batch have been sold on... *maybe* this is a batch problem off the 1st set, and the others are being sold off to recoupe some $ (if) the product is actually to frought with issue to continue. I would hope not, and INA sending a replacement (albeit a poor looking example as you can see) is a sign of supporting the product + their customers importantly.

    Its not the £350-£400 cost of the manifold its the fitting costs and inconvenience which far outweighs the cost of failure. A replacement manifold does nothing to cover costs of having to refit one, and lets face it what guarantee is there it wont happen again..? Its not like the replacement looks like anything other than a 2nd rate cast off (no punn intended)

    so close, yet so far..........
     
  11. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    This is precisely where my gripe lies. It's not just a bad product, it's a bad product that is extremely hard work to fit. To go through the hassle of fitting, and then have to go through it all again isn't a good thing - especially if paying a third party to do so.
     
  12. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Adding to this, whilst I am having a moan, I am thoroughly underwhelmed with JBS's customer service.

    I have emailed and called requesting details of, and a firm date for their High Flow K04 manifold.

    Both appear to have been shunned, as there was no-one available to talk to, and my email appears to have been completely ignored.

    Not ideal. :think:
     
  13. DaveA3

    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    tsr one too pricey mate?
     
  14. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Yes dude, I simply cannot justify that amount of money for a manifold.

    I can have a JBS Hi Flow Mani and WMI, and fit them for the ~£700 (£720 after VAT goes up) + delivery that the TSR costs.
     
  15. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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  16. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    I cant believe what a piece of cast Pig iron this is. Its a joke!
     
  17. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

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    Extremely useful post Bill, it can't wait to see 034's response, they are oh so cagey about this product and what a ball'O'***** the mani turned out to be.Interestingly enough when i fitted the 034 Mani i did expierence this Tink Tink sound after some power runs which i though was strange as i never heard the OEM mani doing this, at the time i had a lot of hardware fitted so i put it done to this.
    Are you saying a cast manifold should not have the tink tink sound or as we know it now the tink tink dead rattle.
     
  18. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    tink tink is death rattle i fear.
    i fear the worst
     
  19. Sandip

    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    Even my mani looks like it's had a little patch up tbh, it hasn't crack (yet)! Don't think i've driven that hard to get it glowing though so time will tell.....one thing i have noticed is that there a lot more meat where it bolts down onto the turbo, which can only be a good thing

    JBS mani
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Barks

    Barks Member

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    Even for the photo sandip the JBS manifold looks of a 'better' quality material with fewer manufacturing defects. Time will tell !!
     
  21. RobbieRolex

    RobbieRolex Member

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    It does look a whole lot better but i guess the proof is in the pudding.Anyone fancy taking a blow torch to this one?LOL.
     
  22. S3 D2HTY

    S3 D2HTY Member

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    I rang TSR they quoted me £650 + VAT + P&P almost £800 quid :sadlike:

    thats just daqily light robbery!!
     
  23. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    getting hold of one is the first challenge
     
  24. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    No response from 034 or INA re the manifold..
    Hmmm, should I be surprised?

    Kinda says it all does'nt it

    AVOID
     
  25. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Shocking IMO.

    Time for a boycott of the product.
     
  26. Speedy Steve

    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    problem is there are so many people out there that dont come on this site that will buy them same as with the xs power one its a real shame as the potential is there.
     
  27. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    I totally agree, BUT, we can only do all we can to make the information as available as possible.

    I did a Google search on the 034 manifold and Bill's post on SCN about the cracked on (034 Motorsport K04 manifold - Review or Cracked one - Page 2 - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum) came up as the second hit.

    Hopefully people will do their research before buying one. If they don't research the product before buying, then they are the architect of their own destruction IMO.

    I had the unfortunate experience of having the first one to go. Nobody knew before. Bummer.
     
  28. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I have sent another email to 034 currently, to another email address I had, and also asked INA for a refund on the manifold
     
  29. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    If they issue a refund I will remove it from ebay immediately. I would fell 100% better about the whole situation, however I'm not holding my breath.

    Thanks for taking the time to do that Bill. :thumbsup:
     
  30. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    ^ lol, just seen your ebay item
     
  31. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Hmmm, my feelings on having put it on there have already been made clear... :(
     
  32. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    yeah sure, i understand, still made me chuckle
     
  33. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    lol, yeah. Bloody thing :(.

    This thread is turning into the never ending story....
     
  34. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Audi S3

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    your page count is certainly catching Tufty's thread
     
  35. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4

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    I spose i could crosslink your experiences onto the 'Zine if you feel it may help?
     
  36. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    As in Audizine? Yeah, do it if you wouldn't mind dude, trying to get the word out.
     
  37. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    For all the wrong reasons sadly... :sadlike:

    <tuffty/>
     
  38. Welly

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    :yes:
     
  39. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    RIGHT:

    I am applying the brakes on this momentarily having spoken with 034 directly now. I have locked the SCN thread whilst discussions continue.

    What I will say, is Javad Shadzi the owner of 034 is now aware of this, and will be responding to me. There is a US holiday these next 2 days (thursday/friday) however, so a full response may not be until next week, but something should be forthcoming by close of business today.

    It is being taken seriously.

    Lets see how it goes from here.
    Over to 034 now.

    thanks
    bill
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  40. Gops

    Gops Badger 5 Edition VCDS Map User Gold Supporter Audi S3

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    Keep your head high welly! Hopefully it'll turn out better than you expected! Im here to lend a hand if you need! :) Good luck!
     

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