1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AH Fab / Ebay / Forge S3/A3 FMIC installs (image heavy)

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by <tuffty/>, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. jq_quint
    Offline

    jq_quint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    Brilliant thread, collecting tips as i'm going along (car coming soon).

    someone please correct if i'm wrong but isn't the crash bar a structural item, therefore cutting into it as per mods above will render it unsafe? not trying to be a kill joy but as i've recently considered a car with this very mod i'm now put off after reading the thread above as I wouldn't want to risk any occupants in the car (namely my family 'at times')
    J :think:
  2. 1animal1
    Offline

    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    9,981
    Likes Received:
    31
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    two ways of viewing this, yes you are cutting the crash bar (not always required with some FMIC's) but then your replacing the cut with a 2 inch thick intercooler....
  3. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    Crash bar is the 'reinforcement' for the plastic bumpers on modern cars... Effectively replaces the metal bumper as seen on your average Mk2 Escort before bumpers became styled into the cars bodywork.

    It is no more or no less effective than that... if you have an accident big enough to cause structural damage, the bumper bar will be the least of your problems as that will just fold into the car.. its designed to 'shrug' off parking accidents..

    <tuffty/>
  4. jq_quint
    Offline

    jq_quint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    True, then again a rad won't react the same as the cross bar in a front ender...Are the kits which don't require this mod really expensive then or just harder to get hold of for so many people not to use them?

    I apologise it it sounds like i'm putting a downer on what seems to be a nice looking installation once complete.:faint:
    J.
  5. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    ..ahem.... see below....


    No such comercially available kit I am aware of but you can do it by using a slimmer core as Glen (Ess Three) did on his. This would probably require a conversation with AH fabrications or Forge to custom make you one as I think Glens was a custom cooler.

    AH/Forge are this shape/size as its what was needed to get it to fit with bumper and fogs in place. Larger ebay items are more of a challenge.

    The bumper bar isn't gonna make that much if any difference in a collision that is likely to result in serious injury to the occupants IMO. Bendy piece of aluminium versus integrated steel shell... you do the maths...

    You could of course try not to crash lol....

    <tuffty/>
  6. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    do you think a relatively flimsy aluminium section is going to cope with a reasonable impact at all then? I dont. they look to be there to, as tuffty says, cope with small carpark type dinks.. to support the plastic bumper

    behind the thin bar, is a thicker aluminium FMIC core, which will bend and distort as easy when a harder impact is had, along with a/c rad, water rad etc etc, all things you wont want to have happen of course
  7. emery1990
    Offline

    emery1990 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    £300 more to have fog lights, Im just going to spray them black, going to put my bday money in the bank and order one up this week.
  8. emery1990
    Offline

    emery1990 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  9. markyR
    Offline

    markyR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    3
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    Good write up prawn, i had my fmic delivered the other day so will be fitting soon. Can you tell me is the cooler mounted central of the crash bar? just that in the pics it looks to one side. also i removed my bumper and had a look the the pipe that runs up by the starter and seems pretty tight i'm guessing thats the way it is? unless it all fits all into place when i remove the pipe on the the turbo? i'm guessing you done away with the bracket that comes on the pipe aswell.

    cheers mark.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  10. jq_quint
    Offline

    jq_quint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    Haven't a clue thats why I asked..If thats all its for (bumper protectors) then I would agree no harm in a nip and tuck...

    Like tuffty says I guess no crashing is the best suggestion..lol.
  11. Prawn
    Online

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    it's central on the crash bar yes Marky, although, misleadingly, the brace mounted to the crach bar isn't central! it's off set by around 22mm, hence why the core looks offset. if you look at the end pics, it's perfectly central to the car! I made this mistake on mine 2 years ago, and my core is 22mm off centre!


    Adamski, this kit is fitted as best as it can be on the A3. unlike the S3 bumper, the standard A3 bumper has MUCH less room behind it for a FMIC, and it's impossible to get this kit to fit any more descretely. it's just the way the pipes sit.

    Add another £200 and you've got £400, which still only gets you half the forge kit.

    Add into that, the fact that this kit lowers inlet temps far MORE than the graph forge boast on their own website, and I personally think you're onto a winner for the money. this kit works AMAZINGLY.
    if the pipes were coloured black, it wouldn't stand out nearly so much.

    emery: the forge pipe on the throttle body IS the main part of the cold side relocation kit :)
  12. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Nov 3, 2009]
    Well...
    Ive done it,
    Would i do it again?
    NO
    Tuffty mate, I can see why you went for 51 mm pipe work !
    Mines all 62 mm the same size as the rest of the boost circuit, It was hard work and a number of small trim cuts had to be made to the plastic that surounds the radiator
    My horns are in the stock location as ive sat the cooler quite low as to get the best use of the space in the bumper for the pipe work,
    Because of the realy poor weather i didnt take any pictures of the work in progress, However the lad who helped me work mate did take one as i was heading out on a road test to check for leaks , I will post that and a few more when i take the bumper off again to make a little change ,
    A hard day or mocking,tacking... cutting...tacking... and finaly welding !
  13. HTC
    Offline

    HTC Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    I know this probably isn't completely relevant as my pipes are custom, but it is possible to fit a FMIC and keep it stealth. I do think these kits could have better fitting pipes. There must be a fair amount of people buying these kits to make it worth the extra research on pipe routing and still keep the costs below that of the forge item. Mine is also an ebay intercooler. Total cost was about £230 I think.

    Nice write up Nick.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  14. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Good work mate, modifying cars is great fun isn't it!!! ;P

    <tuffty/>
  15. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    63mm pipe rules :D

    [​IMG]
  16. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Costs aside, which is the best cooler for the job?
  17. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Depends on the job :)

    <tuffty/>
  18. jack.s
    Offline

    jack.s Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    thinking about getting the turborevs kit myself, but there is another kit on ebay from toyosports for £249 that is suposidly to fit just the a3, does anybody know if this kit is any good? compared to the turborevs kit.
  19. MAD_Adamski
    Offline

    MAD_Adamski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    13
    [Nov 4, 2009]

    i do understand but with the right stuff the cooler and parts are doable for £400 and just me personally i'd rather have that than spend £200-250 and have pipes poking everywhere, looks like a 18yr old has done it not trying to be rude about that but i just think at times its better to spend a touch more and get a result than it look out of place...

    the chaps below looks far better and he did it on the cheap :)
  20. emery1990
    Offline

    emery1990 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Thats good then, because ive just turned 19 so its alright :p £250 is a lot money to me though lol ill get used to the pipes sticking out.

    And ahh i thought it was a bump chargeing £100 for the two long pipes! Out of ten, much easier is it with the dv coldside kit. ? And what have you made the brackets from ?
  21. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Cooling?
  22. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Interesting thought....

    Ok, some clarification I guess...

    Do you want to keep the fogs and have an easy installation?
    Are you running big turbo or remapped K04?
    Do you not care about hacking half the bumper apart and loosing fogs?

    Essentially the best cooler for the 'job' is the one that satisfies your requirements... there is no one cooler thats best, just suitable for your needs...

    Coincidently, the AH cooler I have in the current ambient temps of 10 degrees ish will keep IAT's at around 18 degrees rising to 30 ish degrees under boost with fast recovery back to 18 degrees... thats with a GT30 turbo running 1.8bar boost and producing over 380bhp... Its fitment meant I can keep my fogs, the only thing I had to cut was the crash bar and cost around £400 all in.

    That as far as I am concerned does the job for me... your requirements maybe different...

    Ideally I would like to change the pipework on the end tanks from 51mm to 60mm... this would normally meant the bumper would need trimming and the fogs may not fit or as S3Paul has shown, 63mm pipework can be done but not without a lot of work and friggin about...

    Its what gets the job done for your requirements... hence 'depends on the job'

    For most 'jobs', the Forge or AH Fabs coolers are all you will need...

    <tuffty/>
  23. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Will be def keeping the fogs, probably just a hybrid turbo and a few other toys. So are the AH fab and forge items the same dimensions? I'm after 300-330 bhp before the bug bites again and I have to buy a big turbo.
  24. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    The AH Fabs one is based on the dimensions I gave them which emulate as near as damn it the Forge item. I figured if it ain't broke etc...

    AH Fabs cooler was £250 last I remember, you need to source the silicon and alloy pipes though... its all explained in my first post on this thread...

    Alex from AH tells me the cooler is good for around 450bhp which is fine for me as I am chasing 400bhp atm.

    <tuffty/>
  25. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    i hate to think what egt's a k04 hybrid will run to in trying to hit those numbers ( and likely failing to achieve them)
  26. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Ironically my IAT's run cooler with my BT than with the remapped K04... both running through the same cooler... K04 = heat pump when pushed...

    <tuffty/>
  27. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    What does a K04 equate to in ford terms (as I used to be right into them) my fiesta had a T34. If the K04 equates to a T25 it will be finding it's way to the bin. I'm an audi tech but as for tuning them it's all new, ford on the other hand.....
  28. MintyS3
    Offline

    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    I believe the most thats been seen is 285bhp and about 330lbs on 1.85 bar. Good luck getting that.
  29. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    I concure... at 1.85bar though you really are pretty much in heat pump territory on a K04. Its a popular conversion for the Ibiza boy on Cupra Net, largest air flow reading Bill has seen through mapping one of these is around 220g/s which is 275bhp using the g/s divided by 0.8 method..

    Water/Meth injection will help in this case (as would rods really...) Chemical intercooling... should be able to get some decent timing advance using that, around 8 degrees IIRC on the last Ibiza I saw with it on... equates to 15/20bhp increase. (feel free to leap in and correct me Bill, my memory is not so good LOL)

    <tuffty/>
  30. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Nov 4, 2009]
    Whats the best figure from a hybrid k04?
  31. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 5, 2009]
    I have seen logs on a hybrid K04 on an ibiza (an actual K04 installation, not K03) log 250g/s on its turbo.. Its not been on the rollers yet, as its getting WMI added.. The engine is a 1900cc unit now also, so more displacement. we made a 3" downpipe for it and did the stage 3 mapping.. Went well. divide 0.8 method would indicate 312bhp... but I wait to see its actual readings on a reputable RR at some point.
  32. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Nov 5, 2009]
    My car made 311 when JBS pushed it, They finaly down tuned it to 299 i think it was. With my car now having better internals ( and a fully fresh set up ) with a 3 inch down pipe im keen to see what it will make now. I know the down pipe does make it boost better and feels better... timewill tell,
    Ive had it set up "safe " for now and with the vagcom conversion of x 0.8 it worked out at 282 i think it was.
    Thats running 20 psi
    Any good or already near its limits?
  33. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    763
    [Nov 5, 2009]
    JBS05 you describe I presume?
    the ibiza I mapped with the same turbo went to 25psi peak and 22psi sustained
    EGT's are high and that standard exhaust manifold is choking it.

    20psi should be very reasonable with suitable timing to suit.
  34. Broken Byzan
    Offline

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    314
    [Nov 5, 2009]
    I would be happy with 275 ish from my Hybrid in the A4. i wonder why the A4 doesn't seem to get the same figures even with decent FMIC etc
  35. Il Signor Zetec
    Offline

    Il Signor Zetec New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    19
    [Nov 11, 2009]
    Hello to everybody!
    Can someone tell me how many centimeters is this dimension??


    [​IMG]

    Thank you
  36. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 18, 2009]
    Fitted my AH Fab i/c today, woo hoo. Didn't expect it to make too much difference as the car is stadard engine wise but it did make a bit of difference, only problem is the bumper fit is **** now, going to try and mount the cooler further back. Other than that im right happy thanks to AH Fabrications.
  37. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 18, 2009]
    got pics? I mounted mine as far back as poss... its gotta be tight up against the rad else the bumper will not fit well... sides and top should be ok but the bottom 2 screws will always be a tad out... You will need to slot the slam panel a tad and reseat the self tapping nuts further in.

    <tuffty/>
  38. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 18, 2009]
    I saw in your pics that yours is way further back than mine, going to adjust it back against the a/c condenser. No pics as yet as i was in a rush to get it on before the workshop got locked up. Also i have used 60mm pipework with a 60 to 51mm 45deg silicone hose onto the i/c which has made it a little tighter but nothing a saturday morning can't fix. Drive so much better now though, more responsive iif anything?
  39. <tuffty/>
    Offline

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,300
    Likes Received:
    1,489
    [Nov 18, 2009]
    60mm to 51mm going into the end tanks may be contributing to your problem as thats where its tightest. This is the only reason for going 51mm... you may be lucky though and the hose will squeeze down a bit if it doesn't go 60mm too soon. You may find it particularly tight where the fog light brackets are as the 51mm 45deg elbow will just about squeeze under that.

    Car should feel more responsive most of the time rather than once or twice then flat as a fart... noticed it most on the drive back on a dual carriage way accellerating to overtake, so much better :)

    <tuffty/>
  40. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 18, 2009]
    Its mainly just the bumper sat against the cooler, i'll go back 15mm at least yet. The 45deg hoses dont go to 60 mm untill they have turned the corner so im sure with a bit of jiggery pokery all will be well. I can hear my recirc valve working aswell now which i didn't before.

Share This Page