HI, looking for some advice regarding my car this has turned into a nightmare and any expertise or advice that you have on the matter would be greatly appreciated.(its an A3 sportsback s-line special edition 2.0tfsi quattro)
I took my car to a VAG specialist independent garage in august/september last year, following it showing bad symptoms running and sounding rough.
the report on findings " Investigated engine misfire and found crankshaft bracket had detached which had caused damage to various parts of the engine & bracket became lodged in oil pump. complete engine rebuild with re-con bottom end and pistons, refurbished top end rebuild from original head. found dual mass flywheel had excessive play due to above damage so new clutch and flywheel fitted."
after the car being with them for about a month and half and a bill for £2965.00 i finally got the car back.
I followed the exact instructions given to me in terms of driving the car and the running in period, did not take the car over 3500RPM for the first 500-1000 miles.
when i first got the car back my clutch felt strange and i was told that it would as it was wearing in. my gears seemed not to go in as smoothly as they normally would when selecting on gearbox, felt as though there was a slight notchy feeling before fully going in, was told maybe linkages nothing to worry about, bring back the car if further issue.
1 week after getting the car back i had covered over 600 miles and took the car back for its oil change and service as advised. i was then told by the mechanics that i could take the car over the 3500RPM but to obviously not go "too high". I drove the car home as normal and did not exceed 4000RPM, The following day i was driving and could hear that every time i took the car into turbo around the 4000-4500RPM a weird noise coming from the car, then a very loud bang. stopped the car immediately, and on inspection found that the exhaust had broken.
the exhaust had infact broken at the flange joint located directly at the back of the engine bay. it had completely sheared off from the joint, so the square piece of metal with bolts in was still attached to the engine and the part of the pipe that starts to be cyclindrical exhaust pipe had cleanly sheared off this is located just above the large flex pipe. I took the car back to the same garage to be told that because on this model of car that section of pipe includes the CAT converter and would cost in the region of £1200 and they were not excepting any responsibility for the damage. i found this to be unreasonable as that was the exact place where they would have been taking the exhaust on and off the engine while doing the rebuild.
As the cost of previous work was so high i was not financially able to pay that amount, i sought expertise else where, after going to numerous custom exhaust specialists, i ended up having a de-cat system put on the car, they welded their exhaust pipe on from the flange joint that had snapped. i was also told that because of the size of the pipe and the type of metal that had broken, it would have had a crack in it or tremendous pressure on it for it to have broken, i.e that questions should still be asked to the garage that did the original work on the car.
About 5-6 days after getting the car on the road again the red oil pressure warning light coming up on the dash intermittently took the car back to the VAG independent who had done the rebuild, to be told it was probably a faulty sensor, as it and just had a new oil pump and various other bits and not to worry.
I was then still experiencing issues with the" glitchyness" of the selection of gears in the box and the clutch. The oil pressure light coming on more regularly, i took the car back to them again, they bled the pressure in the clutch and it felt slightly better but gearbox still felt strange and started to have real issues selecting 1st/reverse. Told me they had solved the oil pressure.
some days later again oil pressure light going on noticed there was a correlation in which it was happening at around 1500revs in 4th or 5th, so when going slow in a high gear. The gear selection getting really bad. If ever in traffic if 1st was selected and then clutch was up roll forward and had to stop again (so there was no movement to 2nd), so clutch is just going up and down rolling forward, when it was time to change to 2nd the gear stick was literally stuck to the point have to pull it with some force to get it out. These symptoms have been on going.
so i then took the car back to the garage again and ask that they look into the gearbox as i am to believe when they had fitted new clutch there was definitely something wrong that had led to this issue and to also solve the oil pressure light.
They assured me they would do an oil pressure test on the car and investigate thoroughly.
I receive car back with a bill for gearbox fluid and notes to the affect: " carried out gearbox fluid flush (metal in gearbox) internal gearbox fault." no evidence of new oil sensor on invoice but verbal confirmation of work being done.
On the drive home oil light goes off again and i am now having "owl like" sounds coming from my turbo.
Go back to the same garage (not so happy as you can imagine) get into conversation with person in charge. who tells me my gearbox is as a result of my poor driving and the exhaust completely shearing off was to do with "back pressure" i argue my case that i do not believe this to be true, but was told in uncertain terms to "sod off". i left the car there again for the oil pressure to be investigated and solved.
Next day i go to get my car back and have a invoice; changed oil pressure switch and put engine flush, and complete engine oil change at no cost.
with a note underneath " metallic debris and filings found in sump, oil filter partly blocked by metal particles. oil system flushed and refilled with new oil. engine has been run outside safe operating limits, damage caused by abuse will not be covered under warranty"
As you can imagine at this point i am losing my patience, as this mechanics argument of the freshly rebuilt engine running 200bhp not mapped or modded in anyway has managed to produce so much back pressure it has blown its own exhaust off (which i have had to pick up bill for else where) is refusing to take ownership of exhaust or gearbox which is hard to prove but now stating there are serious issues with the car internally that he is not willing to cover as "he" believes i have driven the car hard? is this a relevant defense for him?
i have emailed the garage and sent a formal letter;
"I am concerned with the items **** gave me on 8th Jan 16 being the piece of metal found in the oil and the state of the oil filter, which is contaminated with metal filings.
Clearly all is not well with this rebuilt engine and I suggest it never has been, as it was returned to us with an oil pressure warning fault being present. This oil pressure fault was reported to you several times and the vehicle has been back to you on a number of occasions to determine the cause and to fix this problem as well as others. This has not been done as I have to report that the oil pressure warning light is still coming on.
Your original diagnosis was
‘found crankshaft bracket had detached which had caused damage to various parts of the engine & bracket became lodged in oil pump, complete engine rebuild with re-con bottom end and pistons, refurbished top end rebuilt from original head’.
The information supplied in the invoice does not mention oil pump, shells, bearings, or any of the items that would have been replaced as standard in an engine rebuild especially given the nature of the above diagnosis. This suggests they were included in the ‘re-con bottom end’
However you have told me that you fitted a replacement oil pump, which was different to the type it replaced and that the sump oil pickup pipe and strainer were changed.
The turbo is making a ‘different’ sound, this was reported to you by a staff member when the vehicle came in to you last Thursday 7/1/16. Is this due to lack of oil pressure or the fact that the oil is contaminated with metal?
I don’t accept that the presence of metal in the oil is in any way due to how the car has been driven, ‘over revving’ would not cause this and in any event it is not possible to over rev the engine. It is clear that there is and always has been an issue with the repair for which you are responsible. I am aware that the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 states that work of this nature should be carried out in reasonable time and with reasonable care and skill. However, I do not believe this to be the case with the service received."
and recieved this as a response;
"The engine was supplied to us as a fully rebuilt bottom end including all bearings and the oil pump conversion. The oil pump failure is a common problem on these and other Audi engines, and the replacement pump is known to be more reliable.
The cylinder head was refurbished for us by a specialist company in Coventry that I and the previous owner of T & H Motors have been using for around 20 years.
The car was given an extended road test after the engine was replaced and another road test last week after the oil flush, we have not witnessed the oil light coming on so clearly we have not been able to reproduce the conditions that **** is experiencing. It is worth noting though that when the car was returned to us after 500 miles for its first oil change, the oil we removed was clean and completely free from contamination indicating that it had been run in properly although we must all acknowledge that it has not been treated quite so sensitively since then.
We hold a 6-month warranty on the parts supplied so if they are faulty there will be no problem getting them put right however the first step clearly is for us to have the car back, remove the sump and carry out a full inspection of the bearing shells and oil pump. Please be aware that the car will need to be with us for a number of days.
The turbo noise is no surprise to me. **** has had a sports exhaust system fitted to the car (without catalytic converter I believe?). This will have completely changed the exhaust characteristic, reduced the back pressure on the turbo outlet and potentially introduced harmonic resonance that will impact on the turbo bearing. We checked the bearing as far as possible when we first replaced the engine but if there has been significant wear since this could cause reduction in oil pressure, excessive oil consumption and wear both in the crankshaft bearings and at the top end of the engine in the valve guides (due to the reduced oil pressure). The sports exhaust also increases the engine output so will in any case increase wear rates although not to the extent that we believe is indicated by the metallic particles in the oil.
I suggest we get the car back as soon as possible so that we can inspect the bearings and pump, and then we can discuss the best way to proceed. Please be assured that if we find any fault with our original work we will put it right at our own cost."
I am now looking to reply to this garage, can anyone please give me any advice on how to proceed? i have been advised that their argument surrounding the new exhaust is basically them trying to get out of their responsibility and i require some expertise on how to counteract the mechanical reasoning and jargon that they are implying.
Many thanks for reading this and seeing the journey/ ordeal i've gone through, the car had 1 owner and full Audi Dealership service history when purchased i've been rather unlucky with this one.
Any reply you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
AUDI A3 8P 2.0TFSI QUATTRO S-LINE SPECIAL EDITION SPORTBACK, PANORAMIC ROOF, FULL BLACK S-LINE HEATED SEATS, AUTO LIGHTS, WINTER PACK, BOSE MULTI-FUNCTION STEERING WHEEL, AUDI FACTORY 14 SPOKE BBS RIMS.
I took my car to a VAG specialist independent garage in august/september last year, following it showing bad symptoms running and sounding rough.
the report on findings " Investigated engine misfire and found crankshaft bracket had detached which had caused damage to various parts of the engine & bracket became lodged in oil pump. complete engine rebuild with re-con bottom end and pistons, refurbished top end rebuild from original head. found dual mass flywheel had excessive play due to above damage so new clutch and flywheel fitted."
after the car being with them for about a month and half and a bill for £2965.00 i finally got the car back.
I followed the exact instructions given to me in terms of driving the car and the running in period, did not take the car over 3500RPM for the first 500-1000 miles.
when i first got the car back my clutch felt strange and i was told that it would as it was wearing in. my gears seemed not to go in as smoothly as they normally would when selecting on gearbox, felt as though there was a slight notchy feeling before fully going in, was told maybe linkages nothing to worry about, bring back the car if further issue.
1 week after getting the car back i had covered over 600 miles and took the car back for its oil change and service as advised. i was then told by the mechanics that i could take the car over the 3500RPM but to obviously not go "too high". I drove the car home as normal and did not exceed 4000RPM, The following day i was driving and could hear that every time i took the car into turbo around the 4000-4500RPM a weird noise coming from the car, then a very loud bang. stopped the car immediately, and on inspection found that the exhaust had broken.
the exhaust had infact broken at the flange joint located directly at the back of the engine bay. it had completely sheared off from the joint, so the square piece of metal with bolts in was still attached to the engine and the part of the pipe that starts to be cyclindrical exhaust pipe had cleanly sheared off this is located just above the large flex pipe. I took the car back to the same garage to be told that because on this model of car that section of pipe includes the CAT converter and would cost in the region of £1200 and they were not excepting any responsibility for the damage. i found this to be unreasonable as that was the exact place where they would have been taking the exhaust on and off the engine while doing the rebuild.
As the cost of previous work was so high i was not financially able to pay that amount, i sought expertise else where, after going to numerous custom exhaust specialists, i ended up having a de-cat system put on the car, they welded their exhaust pipe on from the flange joint that had snapped. i was also told that because of the size of the pipe and the type of metal that had broken, it would have had a crack in it or tremendous pressure on it for it to have broken, i.e that questions should still be asked to the garage that did the original work on the car.
About 5-6 days after getting the car on the road again the red oil pressure warning light coming up on the dash intermittently took the car back to the VAG independent who had done the rebuild, to be told it was probably a faulty sensor, as it and just had a new oil pump and various other bits and not to worry.
I was then still experiencing issues with the" glitchyness" of the selection of gears in the box and the clutch. The oil pressure light coming on more regularly, i took the car back to them again, they bled the pressure in the clutch and it felt slightly better but gearbox still felt strange and started to have real issues selecting 1st/reverse. Told me they had solved the oil pressure.
some days later again oil pressure light going on noticed there was a correlation in which it was happening at around 1500revs in 4th or 5th, so when going slow in a high gear. The gear selection getting really bad. If ever in traffic if 1st was selected and then clutch was up roll forward and had to stop again (so there was no movement to 2nd), so clutch is just going up and down rolling forward, when it was time to change to 2nd the gear stick was literally stuck to the point have to pull it with some force to get it out. These symptoms have been on going.
so i then took the car back to the garage again and ask that they look into the gearbox as i am to believe when they had fitted new clutch there was definitely something wrong that had led to this issue and to also solve the oil pressure light.
They assured me they would do an oil pressure test on the car and investigate thoroughly.
I receive car back with a bill for gearbox fluid and notes to the affect: " carried out gearbox fluid flush (metal in gearbox) internal gearbox fault." no evidence of new oil sensor on invoice but verbal confirmation of work being done.
On the drive home oil light goes off again and i am now having "owl like" sounds coming from my turbo.
Go back to the same garage (not so happy as you can imagine) get into conversation with person in charge. who tells me my gearbox is as a result of my poor driving and the exhaust completely shearing off was to do with "back pressure" i argue my case that i do not believe this to be true, but was told in uncertain terms to "sod off". i left the car there again for the oil pressure to be investigated and solved.
Next day i go to get my car back and have a invoice; changed oil pressure switch and put engine flush, and complete engine oil change at no cost.
with a note underneath " metallic debris and filings found in sump, oil filter partly blocked by metal particles. oil system flushed and refilled with new oil. engine has been run outside safe operating limits, damage caused by abuse will not be covered under warranty"
As you can imagine at this point i am losing my patience, as this mechanics argument of the freshly rebuilt engine running 200bhp not mapped or modded in anyway has managed to produce so much back pressure it has blown its own exhaust off (which i have had to pick up bill for else where) is refusing to take ownership of exhaust or gearbox which is hard to prove but now stating there are serious issues with the car internally that he is not willing to cover as "he" believes i have driven the car hard? is this a relevant defense for him?
i have emailed the garage and sent a formal letter;
"I am concerned with the items **** gave me on 8th Jan 16 being the piece of metal found in the oil and the state of the oil filter, which is contaminated with metal filings.
Clearly all is not well with this rebuilt engine and I suggest it never has been, as it was returned to us with an oil pressure warning fault being present. This oil pressure fault was reported to you several times and the vehicle has been back to you on a number of occasions to determine the cause and to fix this problem as well as others. This has not been done as I have to report that the oil pressure warning light is still coming on.
Your original diagnosis was
‘found crankshaft bracket had detached which had caused damage to various parts of the engine & bracket became lodged in oil pump, complete engine rebuild with re-con bottom end and pistons, refurbished top end rebuilt from original head’.
The information supplied in the invoice does not mention oil pump, shells, bearings, or any of the items that would have been replaced as standard in an engine rebuild especially given the nature of the above diagnosis. This suggests they were included in the ‘re-con bottom end’
However you have told me that you fitted a replacement oil pump, which was different to the type it replaced and that the sump oil pickup pipe and strainer were changed.
The turbo is making a ‘different’ sound, this was reported to you by a staff member when the vehicle came in to you last Thursday 7/1/16. Is this due to lack of oil pressure or the fact that the oil is contaminated with metal?
I don’t accept that the presence of metal in the oil is in any way due to how the car has been driven, ‘over revving’ would not cause this and in any event it is not possible to over rev the engine. It is clear that there is and always has been an issue with the repair for which you are responsible. I am aware that the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 states that work of this nature should be carried out in reasonable time and with reasonable care and skill. However, I do not believe this to be the case with the service received."
and recieved this as a response;
"The engine was supplied to us as a fully rebuilt bottom end including all bearings and the oil pump conversion. The oil pump failure is a common problem on these and other Audi engines, and the replacement pump is known to be more reliable.
The cylinder head was refurbished for us by a specialist company in Coventry that I and the previous owner of T & H Motors have been using for around 20 years.
The car was given an extended road test after the engine was replaced and another road test last week after the oil flush, we have not witnessed the oil light coming on so clearly we have not been able to reproduce the conditions that **** is experiencing. It is worth noting though that when the car was returned to us after 500 miles for its first oil change, the oil we removed was clean and completely free from contamination indicating that it had been run in properly although we must all acknowledge that it has not been treated quite so sensitively since then.
We hold a 6-month warranty on the parts supplied so if they are faulty there will be no problem getting them put right however the first step clearly is for us to have the car back, remove the sump and carry out a full inspection of the bearing shells and oil pump. Please be aware that the car will need to be with us for a number of days.
The turbo noise is no surprise to me. **** has had a sports exhaust system fitted to the car (without catalytic converter I believe?). This will have completely changed the exhaust characteristic, reduced the back pressure on the turbo outlet and potentially introduced harmonic resonance that will impact on the turbo bearing. We checked the bearing as far as possible when we first replaced the engine but if there has been significant wear since this could cause reduction in oil pressure, excessive oil consumption and wear both in the crankshaft bearings and at the top end of the engine in the valve guides (due to the reduced oil pressure). The sports exhaust also increases the engine output so will in any case increase wear rates although not to the extent that we believe is indicated by the metallic particles in the oil.
I suggest we get the car back as soon as possible so that we can inspect the bearings and pump, and then we can discuss the best way to proceed. Please be assured that if we find any fault with our original work we will put it right at our own cost."
I am now looking to reply to this garage, can anyone please give me any advice on how to proceed? i have been advised that their argument surrounding the new exhaust is basically them trying to get out of their responsibility and i require some expertise on how to counteract the mechanical reasoning and jargon that they are implying.
Many thanks for reading this and seeing the journey/ ordeal i've gone through, the car had 1 owner and full Audi Dealership service history when purchased i've been rather unlucky with this one.
Any reply you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
AUDI A3 8P 2.0TFSI QUATTRO S-LINE SPECIAL EDITION SPORTBACK, PANORAMIC ROOF, FULL BLACK S-LINE HEATED SEATS, AUTO LIGHTS, WINTER PACK, BOSE MULTI-FUNCTION STEERING WHEEL, AUDI FACTORY 14 SPOKE BBS RIMS.
