2010 2.0Tfsi Quattro engine failure

veetee

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Hi All,

So the reliability of the CDNC 2.0T fsi engine strikes again. I bought my 2010 2.0Tfsi quattro avant last October from an independent with 92k on the clock. It was in great nick, and had clearly spend the 1st 4 years of its life on the motorway. Being the fastidious sort of chap I am, I thoroughly checked the cars service history - it had been serviced by the previous owner's Audi dealer on the nose every year. I also checked to see if it had the dreaded oil consumption issue addressed, and fortunately it had the full on bottom end rebuild, new piston rings etc in April last year at 88k (6 months before I bought it) also at the previous owner's Audi dealer.

Anyway, after 10 months of ownership the car died on me on the M27 a few weeks ago. In the space of say 1 mile I had a rattle from the engine, no warning lights on the dash, and then silence and just managed to coast the car to a halt on the hard shoulder. It had to be low loaded and taken to my trusted local indy VAG specialists. They had a preliminary look at the car and couldn't hand crank the engine - it was seized.

That was last week - they have finally had a window in their workshop today and try and diagnose the failure. The got as far as removing the sparks and discovered that Spark number 2 was "excessively damaged". They then put a camera into the bore and couldn't see a piston (well it was in bits) and the conrod seemed to have excessive damage.

So I am now on the horns of a very expensive dilemma. Given that the conrods and entire bottom end were replaced about 15 months/ 12k miles ago, and its appears to be bottom end failure, there may be come back with Audi. So I've got to transport it to the local Audi Dealer (fortunately only a mile or so away from the VAG indy where is is now) and the have to pay for the investigative work\ engine strip down by the Audi workshop. Even then they may not chip in for a replacement engine. The clutch is likely to be borked as well, and who knows what may have happened to the rest of the drive train?

It is still early days, and without a full strip down we won't know for sure what has caused the failure, so I will keep you posted, but it will be very interesting to see if the bottom end rebuild being carried out to fix the chocolate piston ring problem, only then contributes to another.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had this problem (saw a similar thread on The B7 2.0 TFsi with Cam followers - of course the B8 has a can chain,. not belt).
 
Things have moved quickly today. The car is now with my local audi centre. It will be looked at tomorrow with the details being sent to audi UK to see what contribution they are willing to make......fingers crossed.
 
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Best of luck mate hope you get a full rebuild with goodwill.
 
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You sure it's not the cam chain tensioner that's failed causing the piston damage? That's what I think has happened unfortunately mate and very likely need a new engine! See my thread:

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...-2015-ongoing-thread-2009-2011-models.237270/

Hopefully you will get this sorted for free and as it has been completed by Audi they should cover the cost. There is a 2 yr warranty on the oil consumption repair parts.

These oil consumption repairs are only good if the cam chain tensioner and adjuster are also replaced with the modified parts.

This is unfortunately becoming a more common problem. I have evidence from Audi that my tensioner and adjuster were changed during my rebuild in February.
 
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Hi Mike yes, that could certainly be the cause. Judging by the photos my local indy took of the interior of Bore 2 and their opinion was the engine was beyond repair. So before any further work was done I sent it to the local audio centre.....still waiting for their verdict
 
I definitely think the cam chain tensioner has lost oil pressure enabling the cam chain to jump a tooth or two:

http://shopdap.com/2-0t-fsi-timing-chain-chain-adjuster-and-chain-tensioner-problems/

As mentioned above these should be replaced however there are discrepancies between Audi garages carrying out the repairs and whether to replace it along with the cam chain adjuster. It's going to be another massive & expensive headache for Audi if they don't change them. The parts don't cost a lot either and are fitted at the same time as the rebuild..

Mine were both changed so why isn't it the same across the Audi dealer network?

The TFSI engine saga continues unfortunately...
 
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have they said if they will help u out at all or poss a new engine ?
 
The master tech has done his investigation and submitted his report to Audi HQ so it's just a waiting game now.....
 
Yep, here's hoping I won't still be waiting this time next week!
 
Did you ask the 'master tech' about the cam chain? If the bores in bits its a certainty the belts slipped...
Ask for a new engine and not a reconditioned.
I personally would ask them to stick in a 3.0 tdi instead...
 
So....after a lot of delays and negotiation, I finally have my car back.......but at a price! Considering my car died in the first week in September and I picked it up after the work was done last Friday, it has been a pretty long and stressful process.


Facts are:

Car bought October 2014 with 92K on the clock. I bought it from an independent trader (not Audi). But the car had a full Audi service history and had had the bottom end rebuild due to the oil consumption issue. I had it serviced In August by my local V.A.G indy, so in my owner ship I had not used Audi at all….

So after taking the car to my VAG indy garage on the low loader, they had a slot a week later to strip down the engine to see if it could be repaired….they got as far as taking the sparks out and could see the engine was borked (no piston in bore 3, and bent conrod). They suggested I may have some come back due to the bottom end rebuild carried out by the previous owner at his Audi dealer (in Humberside!!). So low loaded it too it to my Audi dealer –Portsmouth Audi to see what could be done.

This was a bit complicated because Portsmouth Audi really had had no dealing with car until now. They tried to see if they could get a response from the “Humberside based” Audi dealer to see if they would accept any responsibility, with (as far as I am aware, no luck).

I was then given a courtesy car and the technician then tried to see what had caused the failure…

So…..

no firm diagnosis on the engine failure - it was too broken to determine, without forensically investigating and reconstructing the engine.....but crucially the timing chain was still intact...so it wasn’t cam tensioner. .

The Audi technician diagnosed a new engine, turbo, and intercooler was required - total cost (parts only) about £9k!!!!!

I then went through the audi dealer and audi uk to see what I could claim, even though I had no warranty.

Initially 50% goodwill contribution was offered, due to the good service history of the car, and my previous customer record with Portsmouth Audi with the numerous other Audi's I have taken to them over the years. Given that the total cost was approaching £9k (not inc labour) I wasn't prepared to accept that. I managed to get them to 70% goodwill contribution on parts and labour, with rest being paid by me. To sweeten the deal and given the mileage (now 101k) I asked them to replace the clutch and flywheel – might as well as the engine was out. Total for that was £1k.

So alls well that ends well (expensively). I guess paying north of £3.5k is better than £10k! TBH, without the contribution, I would have to have written the car off and sold it on without an engine

I have to say that whilst I didn’t get what I wanted – to not be out of pocket at all, Audi UK and Portsmouth Audi have been as helpful as they can be – it could have ended so much more badly!

So after replacing the suspension all round with a Eibach Proline earlier this year, and now a new engine, turbo, intercooler, clutch and flywheel, I now have a new car!
 
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Interesting read. I’ve recently found myself looking at 2.0 tfsi A4”s, with a budget of 8-9k
I’m trying to broaden my knowledge on these engines and associated issues with them. I was aware of the oil consumption problem but only recently started to read about timing chains / tensioner failures.
Ive also read About Audi doing engine rebuilds to resolve the oiling issue. Now what I’d like to know is would Audi replace chains and tensioners while they sort the oiling problem??

it would seem what is a good car is also a ticking time bomb that goes off with next to no warning

any advice would be appreciated as I’m looking at a dynamic atm on an 11 plate which has had the engine rebuild done due to the oil consumption problem
 
Before I bought my S4 I owned a 2015 plate Octavia VRS 220 TFSI with the later modified engine, I bought it brand new from Skoda (first ever brand new car).
Treated pretty much gently from day 1 with the occasional spirited drive and was serviced by the supplying dealer on the button every year irrespective of the low miles I was doing.
Fast forward to 2018 and 23000 miles, I started to notice every once and while a puff of blue smoke when accelerating "spiritedly", then one day whilst cleaning it I took off the engine cover to give it a good wipe down, there I found a large amount of oil residue around the oil filler cap/dipstick tube, obvious signs of blow by.
I sold it within the week.
 
I'm in the process of buying a 11plate Dynamik with 87k on the clock, it had the rebuild done at 52k back in mid 2018. I can't find any mention of the timing chain and tensioners being done!
My plan is to call the dealership that did the work but I won't accept anything other than hard evidence that it's been done...
Where can I find the part numbers for the latest revised kit? I have plans for the car and want to ensure some longevity as much as it's possible to do so.
 
The Indy I spoke this morning said as a rough guide, well over a grand for new chains and tensioners, apparently there are 2
 
Hi.

I”m in Derbyshire. Haven’t got the car yet. Of the ones in my budget they mostly seem to have the documented oil consumption repair at main dealer while there is no mention of and chain replacement. As I have said in earlier post I’ve read that chains can be an issue as well. I really like the B8 dynamic and just need to budget for the chains to be done should they start to get noisy.

I did speak to a dealer today with a dynamik for sale. He reckons the chains are £200-£300 then the labour and sundry items. I suppose it’s labour that kills it
 
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I'm pretty sure that I read on one of the threads on here that Audi had quoted 4hrs labour so where I live in Devon that's about £180 in labour :laughing:
 
That’s not too bad then. Might phone main dealers to get price before hand so I know worst case scenario
 
Interesting read. I’ve recently found myself looking at 2.0 tfsi A4”s, with a budget of 8-9k
I’m trying to broaden my knowledge on these engines and associated issues with them. I was aware of the oil consumption problem but only recently started to read about timing chains / tensioner failures.
Ive also read About Audi doing engine rebuilds to resolve the oiling issue. Now what I’d like to know is would Audi replace chains and tensioners while they sort the oiling problem??

it would seem what is a good car is also a ticking time bomb that goes off with next to no warning

any advice would be appreciated as I’m looking at a dynamic atm on an 11 plate which has had the engine rebuild done due to the oil consumption problem

So after the whole episode, my thoughts are:

1. if its a CDNC engine, check it has had the bottom end rebuild done by an Audi garage. If it hasn't, walk away
2. If it has, check that the tensioner and followers etc were done as well. If it hasn't, factor that into your sale. The job itself is only a few hundred quid I think, so might be worth doing for piece of mind if you cant negotiate that into your purchase
3. If at all possible buy a post 2011 facelift B8.5 2.0Tfsi - that's' what I bought next. The face lifted cars had the design fault fixed. Never had any problems with that car.
 
That’s my question as well. Spent hours on the net last night much to the annoyance of the wife. All I could find was EA888, which I believe is the engine that has the problems. The cars I’m looking at are Dynamiks. All circa 2011, which knowing the manufacturing process, means the engine was most likely first built in 2010
 
Well it is what it is.... I will get on and do the chain and tensior etc but I can't see that every 2.0TFSI engine will go bang with bottom end destruction otherwise there wouldn't be any left on the road!
 
No totally agree, also there’s the theory if it’s made it to 90-100k then there can’t be a lot wrong with so long as regular servicing is maintained with quality oils/ fluids etc

when all said and done if we took note of all reviews on cars no matter what make we’d all be using the bus
 
No wish to rain on your parade- but if you haven't actually handed over £££s, signed contract etc. I'd advise walking away. Dynamiks do seem to all be potentially an engine nightmare.
I speak from experience...If I'd just checked this Forum out before...it would've saved me much money and hassle.
My workm9ate had a 2.0 Tfsi (not a Dynamik) a few months newer than mine and he had no issues, obviously his just fell into the better built engine batch.
When I got mine rebuilt last year I got the latest updated camchains and tensioners.
I do love the engine now (but don't quite trust the design!)
Good luck, whichever way you go.
 
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I'm not too worried tbh, the one I have paid a deposit on has had the proper Audi rebuild back in mid '18 but also more recently it's had new clutch, turbo, and brakes all round and the price I've negotiated will give me room to do the updated camchains and tensioners.
Out of interest Mack as you have just done yours do you have all the correct part numbers e.t.c.? I don't want to ring up Audi and have some doughnut give me the details for the og setup!
 
I'm not too worried tbh, the one I have paid a deposit on has had the proper Audi rebuild back in mid '18 but also more recently it's had new clutch, turbo, and brakes all round and the price I've negotiated will give me room to do the updated camchains and tensioners.
Out of interest Mack as you have just done yours do you have all the correct part numbers e.t.c.? I don't want to ring up Audi and have some doughnut give me the details for the og setup!

Sounds like you've got things covered with the deal, cool.
As for the part no.s- 'fraid not as the garage I found to do the work handled everything ('twas they who told me of the Audi upgrades) and to be honest I was s-o not interested in the car after I got it back- it was as fixed as possible, but I just handed it to the wife and started looking for something else( not Audi!)...
However..... I took it back for a week (well that's what I said to herself!) and it's been my daily for ages ....I even got a Stage 1 remap too now, and finally enjoying the beast.

PS(checked bill from March last year for you, but not listing part no.s)
 
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I’m speaking with a guy at the moment with a dynamik. States in the 4 yrs he’s had it, not used any oil between services, but no mention in the service records/ paperwork that he’s got to say it was rebuilt by Audi for the oil problem. What he does have are the invoices Derby Audi for new cam chains, oil pump and chain oil pump totally £2.6k
Not seen the invoice but he seems very open and honest so far. He’s going to send me the engine and vin number so I can phone Audi service dep on Tuesday to verify.

there is another I’m looking at which has had the engine rebuild done, no mention of chains being done but does have the CDN engine.

can anyone confirm if this engine has the oil issue, or both the oil and can chain issue?

thanks
 
If it's a dynamik it will have both I reckon as they were generally only a 2011 model with maybe a couple of stragglers being registered in 2012 and even then they would probably have the same motor!
 
Well I think if I can’t find one that’s had both issues dealt with and paperwork to prove I’ll have to look for something else.
I was hoping to avoid diesel
 
Pursue the guy who's selling for either paperwork or number for the garage/s that have worked on the car......
Yeah I know what you mean about diesels, after all the government will be using them as the next scapegoat for being seen to save the planet in my op!
I have been looking at 2012 b8.5's but none at a spec I like enough to justify the jump up in price on my budget, and I have done a decent deal on this dynamik!
 
Best colour imo. I’m currently looking at a black one, a silver ( can’t recall the specific name of the colour) and a white one.
Personally I think white carries the marmite wheel better, but I think when I get mine I’ll prob just get them painted in the first instance as I like the rs4 wheels of that era