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Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.
Hi I've now completed 1k mls since having the oil pump module changed and has yet turbo still OK.
Today I received yet another letter from Audi and this time a letter "from" the Audi CEO and a paragraph therein reads as follows;
"XXXXX has spoken to our Technical Support Team who are confident that the repairs carried out ( i.e the replacement of the oil pump/balance shaft assemby) are not the result of a manufacturing defect or a design fault,should this have been the case, the part would have failed much earlier in the life of the vehicle."
So there you have it, no defect or design fault exists with the 2.0 tdi engine, simples !
I shall off course be writing back and I am going to request a meeting with the Technical Support Team to point out the evidence that the engine has a latent defect and that mileage is no measure of design life or poor material selection in a non serviceable item etc etc.
So no small claims court challenge yet to file as Audi are still communicating with me.
I've just bought an A3 2.0 TDI (55 reg) with 53k miles.
No doubt this could have the problem described here in the future.
I'm not very technical - so sorry if this sounds stupid, unnecessary or impossible...
I'm going to get the cambelt replaced in the next 6 months as a precaution (just because it will be 7 years old and they recommend 5yrs / 80k miles).
Is there anything I can get inspected / changed at the same time to avoid the balance shaft & oil pump failure in future?
Is it the drive chain, tensioner and the oil pump drive gear that could be changed - and if so how much would that cost considering I'd have it done before the failure (hopefully!)?
Would the above also include the change of this platic guide thing that has been mentioned.
I'd be grateful for any advice!!
P.S. I have read through most of this thread but haven't seen anything that answers this questions specifically...unless i missed or totally didn't understand it
I don't believe the A3 has the same issue, I've certainly not heard of failures such as the A4's. Does anyone have a list of which VAG cars are susceptible?
Thanks for the response Wrath!
I was under the impression its all the BRE TDI 2.0 engines??
As far as I am aware, some of the 2.0 TDI's operate their oil pump assembly slightly differently. If this is the case it explains why the Seat Leon does not get affected and I don't know of cases where the A3 has failed.
Thanks matey... I didn't realise that. Much appreciated.
Ah, actually just read the Honest John report on the A3:
A3 + S3 2003 | Audi | Car Reviews | Honest John
Specifically this bit:
Avoid the later piezo injector engines and avoid the 2.0 PD at all costs because of the likelihood of oil pump drive failure - especially in N-S installations.
I love the accuracy of Honest John's oil pump hex drive failure prophesy... "from 59000 miles". Ie. it is timed to fail right after the warranty runs out. LOL.
Mine packed up at 60300 miles. Details on Page 8. I have been intending to sell the car before anything else went wrong. Had six months of decent motoring and now the driver's side Adaptive Bi-Xenon has decided to play up. Who the hell designs a light that costs almost Â£900 to replace?
Despite talking to my Local Audi dealership about this at the time, despite all the protests and letters, despite me going in again to get an idea of a part-ex value (and complaining about the oil pump afterwards), They still said they did not know of a problem with oil pump failure on 2.0 tdi engines.
- Incidentally, off topic...while still posing as a potential customer...At 4 years old with just 65000 miles I was quoted Â£28000 plus trade in for a new SAME SPEC A4 Avant. And was told Audi's were reliable with great residual values at the same time. -
My audi blb engine suffered the same balance shaft problem about 3 weeks ago, anyone with the same problem is in deep ****, apart from audi denying there is a problem. I have found out locally from TPS, audis parts subsidery company that a chap has been waiting for this part since September 2011, my brother in Germany who also tried to source the part has been told there are 2000 plus on back order. I have set up a facebook page ' Audi action Group', please register your details there, so that we can start collecting the numbers together and have a central place to be in contact. Does anyone have a worthy email address at Audi to push this complaint further, I have just written to firstname.lastname@example.org, am awaiting a response as have got sick of lovely soft spoken northern women trying to pacify me at audi uk customer services. Also write to email@example.com, if they get enough of us writing in, the problem may get some tv exposure
I had my oil pump/balance shaft ( and new bearing shells ) replaced at 68000 after a five week wait for parts. I have also been in communication with others who have waited up to 8 weeks for parts. Don't forget there is a forum to express your dismay set up by Phil Jowitt on facebook called/named; Audi ( Not the Quality car they Advertise).
I am now up to letter number 4 with Audi Uk and "THE MANS" contact details are as follows;
Mr M Sander
CEO Audi UK
tel 01908 601000
The Audi stance is simple, there is no latent defect with the 2.0tdi engines and if your car is past 60,000 or over 3 years old you don't have a valid claim of any type. If you are out of warranty but with a full MAIN DEALER history they MAY give you a partial refund under the terms of dealers good will.
I WILL NEVER BUY AUDI AGAIN and i have been driving them now for over 15 years, Japanese next time !
What year model I can buy with confidence without all the aforementioned problems? Would 2007 or 2008 onwards be ok??
Have Audi re designed the oil pump shaft set up?
Are the new A4's of different design or what year is best for a safe reliable unti that won't need remedial work.....I know my B6 has never had such issues I suspect because it's of better design?
The 1.9 tdi engines are generally fine.
2.0 tdi engines can have the issues raised here.
Look at the engine code for the 2.0s. Earlier BLB engines suffer from failure of the oil pump caused usually by the chain drive tensioner failing. The later BRE and BRD engines changed to gear drive but suffer usually from the hexagonal pump drive shaft going round and failing.
Both have the same result, the oil pump stops going round. If you are very lucky you can just fix the issue. Usually you will wreck the turbo too. If you are unlucky you can require a new engine.
It should be noted that these problems do not occur on that many engines. BUT it occurs on a lot more than is officially recognised and is caused by a major design fault. If you shell out for a "quality", "reliable" car and it costs you thousands to fix it at only 60300 miles it will really upset you.
It is not just Audi but found on most if not all of the VAG group 2.0 tdis.
Oh, and to answer your question about design improvements. Some people think the redesign to gear drive fixed the issue...it didn't. It just moved the failure to the next weakest point, the hex shaft.
When we bought a brand new pump/balancer assembly late last summer it was exactly the same design as the failed assembly coming off.
To my knowledge there have been waits of months to get replacement parts and they have not been redesigned yet.
Only time will tell if the same problems affect the B8 and newer ranges.
Has anyone seen or heard about a reliability survey that was reprted in the Daily Mirror on I believe on the 30th January 2012.
I understand the statistics show 1 in 3 ( YES, ONE IN THREE )Audi 2.0tdi engines from vehicles registered between 2005 and 2009 have experienced severe engine problems?
If this is the case then I guess the statistics include the B7 AND the B8 engines ?
If anyone has seen or read the article ( and I haven't) perhaps they could chip in here and add/confirm or correct what I have just written ?
That's put me right off getting a 2 litre TDI Audi.
I will probably opt for the 2.7tdi A6 or 3 litre derv unit..I assume they are ok?
Another contender is the 330d BMW.....father has one of these and it superb.
I like our B6 TBH....a lovely Avant but the newer A4 seems to be a real financial pain for many!!
Can't believe Audi's stance......they will loose quite a bit of custom!
i must admit the 330d engine is a power house with little problems ive come across as a professional mechanic.
no way i would buy a modern audi.
I don't see much mention of the BKD engines.
Are they as susceptible to the issue?
anyone know what the highest miles anyone has had without these problems.Just bought a blb with 100k just wondering if it has either been fixed at some point or becuase it has 100k it does not have the issue.
The highest mileage I genuinely know of on an 05 plate 2.0 tdi ( I am assuming this was a blb because of the year of registration i.e. early 2005) was circa 240,000 miles.
That said, I had my own unit replaced on my BLB coded engine at 68000miles when it started rattling and I caught it before it failed.
Its fair to say others on this forum don't believe it or think I am mistaken , go figure ?
is it obvious when it starts to go? just so I know to look out for it
My own experience on my own engine was that it started rattling as the plastic tensioner had failed.
Others have had sudden failure and some people never hear the rattle as they can only hear the sound of the diesel engine.
If your not sure if the engine has been converted from the chain to being a gear driven unit why risk buying it and having to live with the uncertainty of an expensive repair looming ?
My local indie told me that he hasn't seen this issue on sub-100k mile engines. Of course this thread prove otherwise... but from what I've read I suspect you're unlucky to get it under 70k.
I personally wouldn't buy a BLB unless there was paperwork for the conversion, etc.
In reverse, the lowest mileage that had the problem was 43k.
this is incorrect, the figures I have are roughly half beow 100k and half above. I think it's more to do with time rather than mileage.
Yeah... I tend to agree. I didn't want to debate it with him though... he knew bigger words than me
I wasnt aware of this problem until after I bought it,and the has fsh. Im not going to loose sleep over it, "if it goes it goes". Clearly this problem only covers a very small % of these engines. This thread has had over 120 000 views but only 600 odd posts not that that means a great deal but I would have though if you were affected with this problem most members would have posted about it.
I believe thats the correct attitude to have and indeed this was my stance with the issue at 43k (when I first took delivery of my own car) and three years back in time.
That said when it did start rattling ( 25k later) at least I was prepared in the knowledge what the issue was and how much it was going to cost me to rectify the problem before I "lost" my engine ( and it gave me time to save for what I hoped would never happen ).
I sincerely hope you and any others reading about this problem never have the financial pain or the worry associated with fixing what is in reality an Audi latent design defect in the 2.0 tdi engine.
Has anyone tryed or got machanical breakdown cover? I wonder what sort of cover is possable and how much is it.
When my own warranty ran out ( my car was bought on the Audi used approved scheme so it came with 1 years waranty) Audi offered me 1 years additional cover for Â£800.I didn't take up the offer and three years later the oil pump/balance shaft issue came to the fore on my car. To have maintained the Audi cover would have necessitated the vehicle being serviced within the Audi franchise.
If one would use a third party cover like Warranty Direct (they have a good reputation) I would THINK they would argue the oil/pump balance shaft had failed due to fair "wear and tear" and hence you would not be covered?
The Audi extended warranty in my experience is very solid and covers just about everything (I have had experience with the Audi extended cover on my last two Audis and made very easy claims under their terms and conditions) but it is a very expensive option once the included cover with an Audi approved used car purchase (12 months later) has expired.
Ah I see,
Just to add more info to the thread.......
I just called and got a service history report going back to 40k and the balance shaft has never been replaced. It is now at 100k so looks like it has never been replaced.
I am waiting on audi getting back to me for history before 40k though.
Some more very good info and video's of problem engines just so you know what to look out for.
Oil pump and balance shaft module failure on 2.0L VW and Audi TDI engines
best advice.... id stop using the car and get it sold quickly!
I've had 4 Audi's over the past 20 years. They have got so much less reliable and more expensive to keep fixing. With oil pump/balancer, turbo and egr valve replaced, Â£900 adaptive light on the blink (no pun intended) and unexplained power loss the other night, I have drawn the line. Although it has just been serviced, mot'd and has Â£700 of new rubber it is history!!! Traded it and so happy to be rid of VAG forever. Another loyal customer lost. I have always maintained my cars well and sold privately, I took yet another loss on this A4 Avant trading at a main dealer because my conscience wouldn't let me take hard earned money from an individual. Good luck to you all!
Volvo V60, great 5 cylinder diesels, fwd, well made and cheaper that an A4.
i must admit i drove an old 2002? s60 at work and i was quite impressed.
had a clutch switch fault which i replaced.
really liked it!
Decided to do a bit of research into this today after having recently bought a blb
Called 2 seperate Audi specialists and only one had had a faulty audi come in with this problem in the last year and it was Â£1800 to fix.The guy couldnt believe that I was considering spending Â£1800 to fix a problem before it had even occured!
Also called 2 seperate dealers and they I had to explain in detail to them about the reason I was wanting the new gear system fitted they didnt have much knowledge of the problem(so hardly the common issue alot of people think).
Ok this may be a common world wide issue and there may be hunderds if not thousands of cars that have had oil pump fail but it does seem a very very small %
Has anyone actualy ever done a poll on this?
Audi and the dealers will never admit to there being a problem. In fact, when I lodged my case with Audi UK, they had had no reported failures at all which was crap as two others had logged cases prior to mine. A lot of owners after having a breakdown will just get it fixed rather than find a relevant Audi forum.
As mentioned so many times before, the BLBs are the hardest hit as a small piece of plastic is relied upon to provide tension. Audi refused to answer my questions over what tests were done to ascertain the plastic lifespan. All plastics fail when under tension, Audi know this and this must have been the reason for a complete change to gear driven otherwise all B7s would be affected.
I understand what you are saying but I spoke to the 2 floor managers and they seemed quite down to earth.I think you may be a bit paranoid to suggest that there is some sort of mass cover up going on.There would be no reason for them to not admit the fault with me as I bought the car private and do not have a warrenty so they were affectivly turning away 2k worth of work.
Have you ever though that the reason this has never made it to watchdog or gathered enough pace to get a mass recall by audi is becuase there is simpy very little cases of the fault.I have been looking on car sites and lots and lots of 05 tdi's with very high miles for sale and never had the fault.Even looking online there is very little posts about the issue ok there are 10 or so horrific threads relating to engine/oil pump failure but considering there must be millions of these engines world wide thats not much.
Even the page on facebook (audi action group or somthing) only has 120 members come on! Most of the country is on facebook and this page can only get 120 members.
Mabe it was just a batch problem rather than a design fault (I know your answer to that one!)
I may be wrong but just trying to look at it from all angles. Stop Scaring us blb owners!!!!
Hello Shaun, Do you by chance work for Audi UK or are you just in denial ?
I wouldnt call it denial,but I am now a bit paranoid that somthing is going to go wrong with my perfectly good car because of this thread.