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15Degrees-North S3 turbo Race Car build

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by 15Degrees, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    Question.

    Can I change these lifters with top hat shims underneath them to hydraulic lifters on this head?

    Cheers
    Mark.
  2. dave_s
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    dave_s New Member

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    [Jun 19, 2013]
    Surely you would be better off with solid lifters on a tuned motor - do the hydraulic lifters not pump up at high rpm (or am I still living in the dark ages?)?
  3. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jun 20, 2013]


    New hydraulic lifters are fine, look at performance cars or seat supa copas for example, or even race bikes revving to silly rpm. All have hydraulic lifters. This head is a 1992 MK2 golf head though and back then the lifters were 21 year old tech and not so good. I was hoping I could fit a modern hydraulic lifter but I can't after much investigation.

    So this is what you have to do with top hats. It's a PAIN with a capital P

    Measure all gaps and write them down next to each valave number on a bit of paper
    Remove cams
    Take out buckets
    Take out top hat shims and put them next to buckets in line
    Measure each top hat shim
    Work out the difference between the feeler gauge figure and what you need and the top hat thickness
    Get the top hats ground down what you need to make the gap correct
    Refit them all
    Refit cams
    Measure all gaps and write down the new figure, most will be nearly there now if you got your first measurements right
    Remove cams
    Remove buckets
    Remove top hats
    Get them ground again at your local friendly grinders the small amount they are still out
    Refit top hats
    Refit buckets
    Refit cams

    And about 8 hours later with aching back hope like hell they are all spot on :) otherwise it's all out again and much cussing and more achy back
  4. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jun 20, 2013]
    Thats a real shame.

    Hope it doesn't slow your build down too much,and good luck with getting it all running.
  5. dave_s
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    dave_s New Member

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    [Jun 22, 2013]
    So I am living in the dark ages LOL.

    I remember the process vividly - only on an 8 valve motor, mind you. Took forever to set lash. Eventually had an engineer mate of mine make up buckets with a 'top hat' type gap filler piece (which he produced on lathe from phosphor bronze billet) peened to the bottom of the bucket which allowed me to use standard shims on top to set gaps. Made life easier for long term and never let me down! Still had to spend ages setting up though - sore back's all round!!

    Best of luck with the build - watching with great interest!
  6. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Ok So Update

    Chrispy and I had a MAMMOTH weekend on the car starting on Friday night. We finished at 1.45am with the shims ready to got for grinding at 7am in the morning to Miks place RP engineering (my saviour for all things made and grinded)

    Shims came back at lunch time on Saturday and then I spent 4 hours taking cams in and out to get them all to be spot on at 10 and 12 thou. I NEVER want to do that job again as long as I live LOL. I hate maths and it is so frustrating when you make a slight mistake on the mic and take too much off the shim and then it goes 2 thou too wide, all out again LOL. I got so good that I can now put both cams in and time them up in less than 4 mins LOL!

    We got the loom installed and nothing worked, much scratching of heads ensues and then I realised the cartech GT cutoff plug was not plugged in on the scuttle panel dohhhhhh. Et Voila all wiring now works [​IMG]

    Gave the engine a leak test and all are in the green now at between 10 and 18% so well pleased with that result. Turned the engine over and hoped liked hell to see oil at the top which after a few turns it appeared on all cam lobes so again a big sigh of relief and I fitted the cam cover on.

    Car is now ready to go for running in and mapping at last and I just rang Richard at tracktive to get that sorted. Bascially all jobs apart from fitting the video cameras are now done. The video camera stack mounts are too small for my roll cage so need Mik to make them bigger.


    Many thanks again to Chris who works so hard on these builds.

    Pics to follow later ​
  7. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Great news,after all that work.

    I wish you the best of luck with the running tests and mapping.
  8. A3SBQ
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    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Cant wait to see you driving this.
  9. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 2, 2013]

    You and me both buddy. I want to win in it :) It will be the only Audi on the track so im flying the flag. Booked in for two races on July 27th and 28th on brands hatch GP circuit which is just great. The car should come into its own there as its so fast and sweeping out the back there :)


    Hope it's ok on the dyno lol, always makes me nervous that with a new build.
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  10. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Really hope it goes well.

    Got some decent speeds out of mine down the straights before the suspension rebuild,and yours should fly round the bends.
  11. sje00
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    sje00 Member

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Hope all goes well mate! Hope them Cams do you good!
  12. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    So some more pictures for you.


    A nice shot of the cams installed with gaps set. I got sick of the sight of these LOL. Hydraulic lifters FTW

    [​IMG]

    A finished front end

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Th heat shield for the swirl pot

    [​IMG]

    Passenger side wiring station nd MOTEC

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    My Video 4 box

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The digital radio I am using

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Switch panel all working now

    [​IMG]

    Haldex control knob is the bottom one with a light to tell me when its activated. I have an overide on the steering wheel.

    [​IMG]

    My AIM dash

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The scuttle buttons

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
  13. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    You have done SO much work on this car,and totally transformed it from what it was not very long ago.

    I know I've said it before,but I truly wish you every success when it hits the track.
  14. TT-Turbo
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    TT-Turbo New Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Just spent the last hour reading through this start to end, what a cracking build! Great attention to detail, very impressed.

    On a side note if you need some ARP bolts for the Quaife diff let me know, I have a new spare set.
  15. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]

    Thanks for the vote. We are exploring the possibility of fitting a DSG box with paddle shift, complex but possibly dooable. If not then yes new diff in the manual box. It seems no one makes a sequential for these, at least not that I can find anyway.
  16. TT-Turbo
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    TT-Turbo New Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
  17. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
  18. TT-Turbo
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    TT-Turbo New Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Does look quite trick, just depends on what ratios are in the box but guess you may be able to specify that. Seems the only box available for purchase in sequential, looks mega but i'm sure it's going to cost around the £5k mark though...
  19. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]

    Only 5 MSU's thats cheap. LOL


    In case you didnt know everything in motorsport is categorised by MSU (Motorsport Standard Unit). Each unit costs a grand and everything is at least 1 MSU when you ask the price! So 5 is not bad at all. It's when it gets to ten and beyond I start to quake :)
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  20. TT-Turbo
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    TT-Turbo New Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Haha, I will have to remember that one. I have spent many a MSU's over the years!

    Let us know how you get on with the Gearbox :sm4:
  21. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 8, 2013]

    That gearbox is 12000 euros plus extras :)

    The car is now over at Tracktive for Richard to work his magic. Cranking oil pressure is 2 bar I am told which is very good :) I think he is running it in today and then mapping it.
  22. TT-Turbo
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    TT-Turbo New Member

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    [Jul 8, 2013]
    Holy Sh**! I wasn't expecting 12MSA's! What extra's could they leave out? It's probably a bit more realistic to go for a dsg box for that price
  23. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 8, 2013]
    It's what you pay for racing gear.

    I never got away with my old Escort costing less than £1k for a simple service.....if anything was broken,it was a LOT more.
  24. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 9, 2013]
    Can I get a DSG box to work with the MOTEC? I assume you mean the DSGs that are on Ebay for £800 ish?
  25. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 9, 2013]
    If you're thinking of DSG,its worth contacting Skippy on VAGOC.

    He rallies a TTRS and fitted a DSG box with some difficulty.
  26. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 10, 2013]
    Car is with Richard at Tracktive and currently won't start doh. Scratch head moment it seems.

    Got oil pressure (2 bar at cranking)
    Got compression
    Got fuel to injectors
    Got sparks

    Hmmmm
  27. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 10, 2013]
    Good luck....electrical and ECU problems are a real pain.
  28. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 10, 2013]
    Yeah I think ECU myself because when it came back from interior loom a lot of the pins were altered on the ECU plugs.
  29. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 10, 2013]
    Sounds then as if something maybe isn't getting the info it needs,and won't run.
    I really do hope it's simple,as I know what a pain that can be.
  30. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 12, 2013]
    She lives :)

    Hall switch was round the wrong way oddly. Few small niggles on the loom I.E you cant turn the car off LOL and the kill switch dont work. Nothing that can't be sorted. I am told the engine sounds very sweet. Being mapped now.
  31. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 12, 2013]
    Good news.

    Glad it was something simple rather than something deep in the wiring or the ECU.
  32. sje00
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    sje00 Member

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    [Jul 12, 2013]
    Wahey interested to see the results and howit drives!
  33. A3SBQ
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    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    [Jul 12, 2013]
    Perfect. Just need to see here running.
  34. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    Hi guys

    The car is now mapped and running fine, all my worrys about the wrong pistons etc setting te gaps wrong is gone yayyyyy. Couple of small oil leaks top end which have been fixed and some small wiring issues in that we can't turn the car off are being looked at. I am testing on Saturday at Bedford :) We have set the rev limiter to 8k as it pulls to there hard from 5k before dropping off slightly. That's great for me as most of my time is spent above 5k anyway.

    The haldex solution is also not working at present and being looked at.
  35. jimojameso
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    jimojameso Active Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    Well done mate. Is good to see this running now.Take plenty of pics on track and some vids if poss :)
  36. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    I am trying to get the video system installed Friday night. The box is in so I just have to put the cameras in and Mik has made my stack mounts a bit bigger now. I will probably address my whole dash system as the AIM one I have does not log so I can now get lap times but have no logger to look at my data. I might go back to the new dash 2 pro with built in gps and a DL1 logger like I had in the Clio or a motec dash with gps and logger built in.

    You know no matter how meticulously I build an engine I always get an oil leak LOL. Thankfully it's not the main oil seal on the crank ha ha
  37. sje00
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    sje00 Member

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    [Jul 17, 2013]
    That's good to hear your happy! What were the Dyno figures?
  38. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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  39. 15Degrees
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    15Degrees Active Member

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    [Jul 21, 2013]
    So we went for the test day at Bedford. The car is VERY quick and very planted. Sadly as test days are for finding issues we found the following:

    1. Small leak from the JIC connector to the condensate unit
    2. Rocker cover leaking (we fixed this tarck side)
    3. Tire rubbing on rear arch OS
    4. Fuel starvation issues on some corners on the 175 map and very severe on the 200 map with backfiring. Or what seemed like it.
    5. And the biggy. The power steering rack blew up and dumped all its oil and ended the session.
    6. Front pads too soft for my liking
    7. Seems like a small air lock in the water system as overheating in the corners and cooling on the straights

    So all are being fixed tommorow although the fuel issue or what seemed like that is more difficult to track down and fix as the swirl pot looks like its plumbed in correctly so to my mind it could be

    Swirl pot Plumbed in wrong
    Lifter pump on the way out and not filling it fast enough
    Something wrong with the maps

    Racing next Saturday :)
  40. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 22, 2013]
    Mixed bag!

    Swirl pot and lift pump are obvious candidates given it happens under cornering.

    Good luck for the race!

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