Billed for new Head gasket, but where is it!!!??

[jimmernet]

Just after a few tips/ ideas here guys....

9 months ago I paid a good whack to have a suspect head gasket replcaed on my 2001 S3 (completely stock). After the job, car still had same problems using coolant, mayo on the oil cap etc... So suspected the head was cracked. Having nothing to lose at this point (looking at same money again + new head + car has 126k on the clock already), I chucked a pot of k-seal in. Since then all has been good.

Took car into another garage for a service last week. They said the work on the head did not look like it had not been done.. whaaaaaat??!!! They said there was no sign of the head being disturbed. he showed me the head gasket tangs sticking out of the block and they looked pretty old to me...

I have written a stiff letter to the original garage. The replied saying the only absolute proof that the gasket has been replaced is to remove the head again and inspect the resurfacing job that they said they did on the head. They would take the head off and an independant assessor could take a look.

So, is he calling my bluff- I'd have to pay for the head removal again if I'm wrong. (I wouldn't let him touch the car again anyway..) But how should a 9 month old head gasket job look? Do they rust / oxidise quickly? Is there a 100% easy way to tell the work had actually been done without a strip down? eg is it easy to see the head bolts as well?

Just about to instruct an approved vehicle assessor, but don't want to throw good cash after bad if they can't prove it...

Nightmare all round!

 

[Sandip]

The original garage where the work had been carried out should have pressure tested the head before doing anything surely???

Did you question them as to why it was still the same after they did the job??

 

[jimmernet]

yeah fair point- they did say they had pressure tested it, apparently no1 cylinder was down. But they said that it could be cracked head and/or head gasket and be prepared that the gasket replacement may not fix it. I did question them as well, and they said bring it in. But bearing in mind I thought I was looking at another big bill I just slopped the dreaded kseal in first as I had nothing to lose...

 

[Gavin G]

He probably just poured a sealant into it, i had a monkey machanic try this on me when i was 17 on my 1st ever car PUG 306, luckly my dad knew more about these things than i did. He also told me if the head gasket was going in the old days they would throw a couple of eggs in which acted as a temporary seal until they sold the car on! Good Luck

 

[Lings]

Dodgy garage name and shame the barstewards
my guess is they used k seal before ,One low old trick that is
Especially on cars where its hard to view the gaskets
i would report them to trading standards with a report from the garage who has it now mate !

 

[jimmernet]

Rest assured, Once I can prove it I'm going all the way. I got plenty of qualified legal advice in the family. I'll let you know soon as. All a bit of a ball ache - Cheers though

 

[Lings]

Good Luck mate, i hope you get it sorted asap

 

[aragorn]

I would imagine it should be fairly obvious the head was removed. Bolts on the manifolds and various brackets etc will typically look like they've been disturbed, ie marks from sockets/spanners etc. Perhaps even a new bolt here or there where they've been siezed and snapped upon removal.

 

[sportstractor]

Difficult one that.

a copper gasket would soon lose its shine i think.

Im not a mechanic so I dont know anything for sure, but would it be possible to check other things that should of been changed at same time, like timing belt, waterpump or condition of tensioner? Also did it look like oil and water had been flushed and oil had been changed after the work?

Thing is with garages, as with all other services, you need to be dealing with people you know you can trust, and if it means taking a hit to learn a lesson, then you may have to take it. Also is it really worth pursuing legal action over something like that, fair bit of agro.

best of luck whatever happens though :icon_thumright:

 

[quattro1]

dont you need to replace the head bolts when the head is removed?

 

[aragorn]

yep, but how can you tell they've been changed?

Maybe if the bolts in there are caked in oil sludge or something you can be sure they've never been removed.

Sportstractor: the head gasket is three layers of pressed steel sheet, not copper.

 

[quattro1]

welll wouldnt the garage have proof of purchase from what ever one of their suppliers they got them from on the date(s) that they had the car?

 

[beachbuggy]

Having replace quite a few HG's I can only say that it would be very difficult to tell whether a HG was 9months old or 9 years old. Even after 3 weeks driving and a couple of 100 miles a HG looks worn, dirty and not new when it's removed. I think you could only really tell if the make of HG and bolts where different to the original AUDI ones. Personally I'd be incredibly suprised if they used an original manufactures HG and Bolt set so if they are AUdi ones you can say it was never changed.

Also if you do remove the head, get the part numer of the HG and serial number and speak to audi, GSF, eurocarparts, etc and try and track down who made it, when it was made etc. If you think the garage are trying it on tell them you're doing a parts serial number search , see what they say.

 

[jimmernet]

Hmm thanks beachbuggy - the garage did use original parts... I'm not a mechanic, but I gotta say this pic of the bit of the HG I can see does look like it has been there since the year dot. Would appreciate your opinion... (this is the HG tang that sticks out under the intake manifold at the front of the engine...

 

[jimmernet]

Difficult one that.

a copper gasket would soon lose its shine i think.

Im not a mechanic so I dont know anything for sure, but would it be possible to check other things that should of been changed at same time, like timing belt, waterpump or condition of tensioner? Also did it look like oil and water had been flushed and oil had been changed after the work?

Thing is with garages, as with all other services, you need to be dealing with people you know you can trust, and if it means taking a hit to learn a lesson, then you may have to take it. Also is it really worth pursuing legal action over something like that, fair bit of agro.

best of luck whatever happens though :icon_thumright:

Thanks - good advice there really! I got a commercial litigator in the family who can help, so I'm not worried about cost of legal advice. I just need to be 100% on the technical side...