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1.8T pricing and tempted by an S3-Advice required

keendean Feb 19, 2006

  1. keendean

    keendean Member

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    I've seen a nice S3 for sale, I'm just wondering how much my car is worth.

    1997 1.8T Sport 45k miles FASH, Audi S3 alloys, past invoices and past Mot's. The car is mint in every area.

    The S3 running costs are not too bad I heard is this true?
    I've owned 3 subarus before all running close on 300Bhp, the reason for buying the 1.8t was to try and get out of some debt, but it's too slow and does not have 4wd, so already the car has cost me a set of larger alloys, next I'm looking at a chip and lowering it, all this may be in vain. I thought I'd be happy after selling the subaru and buying a nice slow sensible 1.8t but I'm not I also have just bought a GSXR 600 SRAD whcih I thought would fix my buzz which it does but I still like fast cars. Or would buying a S3 put me back in the world of high maintenance/large bills/running costs.
    Also is it worth gettig the face lift model, I'm very likey to have it chipped anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    And last question, with the new S3 coming out will the older s3's start to de-preciate quicker, is it a bad time to buy one?

    I'm not sure what to do after 28 cars, I'm still no better at being sensible /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  2. AL_B

    AL_B Active Member

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    Hi mate,

    What a dilemma eh!

    Buying an S3 shouldn't put you in the area of high maintenance/large bills/ running costs.

    For example...with my car, the only main problems have been...

    1) 2nd-to-3rd gear crunch on the gearbox. Audi admitted common fault, it was fixed under warranty
    2) ESP & ABS lights kept coming on...tracked down to a sensor within the brake servo...again fixed under warranty...but a big job. Involved lifting the engine out slightly. But Link Audi Macclesfield put it back together very well, you'd not know the engine had been lifted.
    3) Coil packs in Feb-03...replaced under warranty
    4) Finally...my car has a hesitation/loss of power issue, that its had for a while. Still not got to the bottom of this one. Most people could probably live with it, but me being me, I can't. So investigation is on going.

    So I guess my adive would be...providing the car has been serviced regularly, AND the haldex oil changed at the correct intervals, and any warranty work done by a reputable dealer...it shouldn't be a too risky buy.

    Clutches, yeah can be a bit costly, but it would be fairly costly for an A3 1.8T anyway. But it would also be a good time to upgrade the clutch if one was a bit dodgy on the S3. But there's only one or two folk on here that have needed new clutches/flywheels.

    Fuel economy, I guess is not on your list as you sound like most people on here...a speed junky!!! :)

    I think the old S3 will be affected by the up and coming new S3...but that could play into your hands. If you are not after the latest model...then getting an old one could be a bargin. Plus once chipped and maybe a little suspension tweaking....it would be right up there with the new on anyway.

    Finally, facelift or not. Yep defo IMO. The interior in the facelift is better. None-facelift is ok, but the aircon and dash tend to match more with the newer Audi models. And I think a facelift S3 interior is still better than the current A3 interior.

    Good luck mate.

    AL
     
  3. keendean

    keendean Member

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    Cheers Al, sods law the car I'm looking at is not the face lift model, my budget is 10K and I want a low milage FASH model.
    The seats are the same though, am I right?
    Other than that they don't too far diff except the rear light, and front lights?

    So it could be worth me holding on to see if they do drop down in price? The S3 seems to of held its value very well indeed, it's just a case when will they drop down in price, options are high millage face lift, or non face lift low millage, think I'd rather the later of the two if I'm going to go to Jabber.

    Thanks for the info /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  4. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    " rear light, and front lights" - theres a few more differences:

    facelift differences include:

    new shape wing-mirrors (subtle)
    new grille
    new interior equipment (new DIS, new climate, new switches, new clocks, new illumination, new gearknob, different air-vents))
    new wings (to accomodate new headlights)
    new alloy options
    ESP added
    225PS engine added
    AVS possible
     
  5. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    as for the pricing...

    S3's are cult cars - all the S and RS cars are, and hence remain at a relatively high price in comparison to their A-class equivalents.

    With the new S3, I doubt if the 8L S3 price will go down too much - just look at the S2, they still go for about 6 grand for a good one, and thats for a 12 year old car.

    As for the days when you can get a low milage facelift for under 10k.. they're a few years away yet.
     
  6. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    I've added a few comments:

    [ QUOTE ]
    " rear light, and front lights" - theres a few more differences:

    facelift differences include:

    new shape wing-mirrors (subtle)
    new grille - (new badge only)
    new interior equipment (new DIS, new climate, new switches, new clocks, new illumination, new gearknob, different air-vents)) - new center console, not new DIS (well not in my car)
    new wings (to accomodate new headlights)
    new alloy options
    ESP added - was always an option and was introduced as standard before the facelift IMO, followed by who needs it in a quattro...
    225PS engine added
    AVS possible - was option before my car had the choice and was built late 99.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure I would be worried if I was looking for one again, I now think the rear lights do make the car look newer - so I fitted them, I also prefered the new style badges so fitted them. I prefer the old front lights where they follow the bonnet line so it's all down to personal choice. The only bit I wish my car had from the facelift is the cupholder in the dash (but I've heard it's not great) and the armrest works a treat.

    Power - pretty irrelivent if you ask me. I think I'd still be looking for the car in better condition than than a facelift one!
     
  7. AL_B

    AL_B Active Member

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    Yep that's right about the power. The non-facelift was a slightly lighter car 1375kg IIRC, where as the facelift got a little heavier, more like 1460kg approx. So on the road, there's nothing between a 210 and a 225.

    From what I've read the facelift S3 (and some of the later 1.8T engines) got variable valve timing...hence why some 1.8T 150bhp Golfs have more like 166bhp etc...But I thought the non-facelift S3 engine also had variable valve timing. I'm not 100% on this. Anyone know this for definite?

    AL
     
  8. keendean

    keendean Member

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    The one I'm looking atm, I can't afford to loose a lot of money on it, its is a pre face lift but has low miles and a FASH, and sounds as if it's a looked after car.

    10K is my budget , so I do have a limited choice, Hmmm I hope they all do have the VVT
     
  9. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    the cynics (me included) firmly beleive the 225 and 210 was nothing more than marketing to make the TT look faster on paper. Both the 210 and the 225 make similar power, and then throw in factors such as fuel quality and air temperature, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

    The real difference for me on the facelift was the interior makeover...

    the new dash equipment made it feel like a nice upgrade from my 94 B5 A4, plus i wanted to ditch that locking up piece of **** old style climate controller.

    the white needle dials do it for me too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  10. keendean

    keendean Member

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    It's not going to look to far different from my current 97' 1.8T, but I've never been that fussed about interiors. I had three Subarus, so interior was never really a selling point, the car its self was more important.
     
  11. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    madvw can you take a pic of your dash pod and post it up as I'd really like to see the changes between mine and yours (I think there'd identical apart from the badge) as always I'm a curious bugger.

    VVT is again open to debate, some say all S3s are VVT but either mechanical or electronic depending on engine, others say it's b0110cks - and I'm starting to agree, I can't see it makes any difference to either performance or fuel economy etc except I've heard the APY 210 engine is better if going for big power.

    keendean - Well the S3 will have lots of nice piano black bits which makes it look better over the A3 IMO.
     
  12. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    can do. The differences are the badge, and that theres a digital clock instead of the analogue one..

    will post a pic when I get home.
     
  13. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    Cheers, would just like to see exactly side by side as mine has digital clock and fully functioning DIS but my car was built in Dec 99 (from memory).
     
  14. keendean

    keendean Member

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    So god_thats_quick, yours is the non face lift model, but has some elements of a face lift model. When was teh cross over period, I'll find out when the car was registared too.
    Good to see some pics if you have any?

    Thanks
     
  15. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    well if it has the white illuminated dials, then it's likely to be a facelift one... or at least a hybrid...

    For some reason i remember an ebay auction that listed a facelift dash pod for an s3, but it said something about it only fitting 1 particular year..

    other explanation would be that facelift components often find themselves phased in, so it's just as likely to be a normal facelift one too.
     
  16. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    Yep not a clue to be honest, it's why I'm saying we should both take pics and post them up - I'll try and take one tonight. In my manual it shows three dash pods, one with analogue clock, one with digital and one with digital and radio sync (think that was german only). I've also heard others say the DIS doesn't show the doors etc being open on pre facelift cars - mine does including the boot etc so I'm guessing that Audi phased in the changes including Can-Bus etc but not sure about my car - it also has the diagnostic port under the fuse panel even though it says in places in the manual it should be behind the ash tray. [​IMG]

    If anyones got a real early S3 it'd be good to have some thoughts / pics on the subject.
     
  17. HTC

    HTC Active Member

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    Indeed, audi and VW both made changes to the cars in phases.

    I went to look at a few A3's for the girlie a while back. Some non facelift models had digital clocks with later style DIS and some didn't.

    Also some no facelift cars got the later door handles as well.

    I rekon they must rummage blind through the parts bin when they make the cars. Whatever comes out first the put on the car!

    S3's are slightly different as they never had the older cable throttle engines for example and they were introduced at the beginning of the changeover time.
    I can't ever remember seeing an S3 with analogue clocks so I'd like to see a pic too.
     
  18. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    Facelift interior should look like this (but hopefully with more options /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

    [​IMG]
     
  19. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Facelift interior should look like this (but hopefully with more options /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Such as? I really don't understand what people are talking about when discussing S3s and options? [​IMG]

    I can see your missing the heated seats - but what else are you expecting a blonde in the passenger seat?
     
  20. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    Options I would have liked are Bose, centre arm rest, heated seats, a better stereo (I have the Chorus model), possibly sat-nav.

    Didn't have cruise when the photo was taken, in there now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  21. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Options I would have liked are Bose, centre arm rest, heated seats, a better stereo (I have the Chorus model), possibly sat-nav.

    Didn't have cruise when the photo was taken, in there now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fair point i guess, none of those really make the interior a nicer place to look at though - do they?

    I think all the Audi steros in the A3 sound pretty bad and the satnav is great but very costly for what you get, why not fit the centre arm rest? it does get in the way a lot though when parking etc. Heated seats are probably the only thing on your list I would have wanted - makes the car a really nice place to be on a cold day. I'm not sure I even care about cruise control and I used to do 600 miles + per week.
     
  22. [ QUOTE ]
    Facelift interior should look like this (but hopefully with more options /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

    [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Mine is a facelift but the centre console looks different on mine. I think mine has a much larger CD/radio/tape area. You seem to have a black space below the climate control - what's that? Is it just a piano black fascia (my climate control is lower down, immediately above the ashtray). I can't tell from the photo if there's a hole there or a fascia.

    And IIRC, you can get 210 facelift models, the 210/225 changed around the time of the facelift but don't assume a facelift is 225. Check the engine code.
     
  23. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    heated seats, multi-function steering wheel, sat-nav and cruise - all worthwhile
     
  24. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Mine is a facelift but the centre console looks different on mine. I think mine has a much larger CD/radio/tape area. You seem to have a black space below the climate control - what's that? Is it just a piano black fascia (my climate control is lower down, immediately above the ashtray). I can't tell from the photo if there's a hole there or a fascia.

    And IIRC, you can get 210 facelift models, the 210/225 changed around the time of the facelift but don't assume a facelift is 225. Check the engine code.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's because you've got a double Din symphony headunit or satnav and I don't think it's a hole it's just more piano black trim, covering another storage thingy by the sound of it.

    Your also correct on the 210 / 225 it's got nothing to do with the facelift!

    edited because I'm a numptie
     
  25. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    heated seats, multi-function steering wheel, sat-nav and cruise - all worthwhile

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You fancy getting a pic of the steering wheel whilst your there as I don't think I've even seen one in a S3?
     
  26. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    The black bit below the climate control is a little din-size storage compartment with a piano black flip up front. It's a 2001 210 facelift model.

    IIRC, the cars with the single din stereo like the Chorus have this type of center console. I like the look of it, makes the sat-nav conversion difficult though.

    Cruise has been helpful in maintaining restraint on the motorway. I haven't used it much, but it's nice to have it there.

    Not sure about the multi-function wheel. I like them, but i think the S3 option one is a bit ugly.
     
  27. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    OK, got off my lazy @rse to take some pics.. sorry, the steering wheel isnt as visible as i'd have liked and the dash illumination is blurred (i'll blame the camera /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  28. keendean

    keendean Member

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    When did the facelift come? Dec/Jan?
     
  29. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    When did the facelift come? Dec/Jan?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't think you've got any chance of getting a straight answer to that question I'm afraid... even what year is a tricky one going on some cars.
     
  30. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona quattro Audi S3 Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I can't ever remember seeing an S3 with analogue clocks so I'd like to see a pic too.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My 1999 S3 has an analogue clock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    Also, RyanC will confirm that early 210bhp S3's don't have VVT.
     
  31. HTC

    HTC Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I can't ever remember seeing an S3 with analogue clocks so I'd like to see a pic too.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My 1999 S3 has an analogue clock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ahh I see. Can you take pics for reference. So do you also have the square door handles and diagnostics port under the ash tray?
     
  32. starski4578

    starski4578 Member

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    mY 99' a3 QT has white and red dials plus the digital clock not the analogue one, it displays the doors and boot opening plus the radio. This shows they fazed things in gradually as mine has the pre facelift dashboard layout. Also it has the old style rear lights and headlamps. Think the analogue clock looks cheap so very pleased mine came digital.
     
  33. dickys3

    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    When did the facelift come? Dec/Jan?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Facelift models started on 2001 model cars. But you can get 2001 model cars as early as Sept 2000.

    Basically last quarter of 2000 cars are 2001 models.
     
  34. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona quattro Audi S3 Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I can't ever remember seeing an S3 with analogue clocks so I'd like to see a pic too.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My 1999 S3 has an analogue clock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ahh I see. Can you take pics for reference. So do you also have the square door handles and diagnostics port under the ash tray?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'll see if I can take a pic later on for you, AFAIK, mine is one of the earliest S3's on the road, and I have facelift dorrhandles and indicators on the wings. I have the diagnostic port under the ashtray, wasn't this moved to under the driverside dash when the dashboard was facelifted?
     
  35. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    wasn't this moved to under the driverside dash when the dashboard was facelifted?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It most certainly was!
     
  36. marctwo

    marctwo Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I have the diagnostic port under the ashtray, wasn't this moved to under the driverside dash when the dashboard was facelifted?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why did they move it? Trying to drive with cables running accross the car is a nightmare!
     
  37. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    I guess we really want to know whats in Ryans car, wasn't his one of the press cars? I would have thought if any do the press car would have an analogue clock, I've got the pics here now of mine so I'll post them up a bit later.
     
  38. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona quattro Audi S3 Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I have the diagnostic port under the ashtray, wasn't this moved to under the driverside dash when the dashboard was facelifted?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why did they move it? Trying to drive with cables running accross the car is a nightmare!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The facelift dash had the ashtray lower, so the diagnostic port couldn't possibly retained in the original position.
     
  39. Mines a 99' T plate....

    [image][​IMG][/image]
    [image][​IMG][/image]
    [image][​IMG][/image]
    [image][​IMG][/image]

    You can just see the VAG com port under the ash tray on the second pic.
     
  40. jojo

    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator Team Daytona quattro Audi S3 Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Cool, I just took a pic aswell, but I guess it's not worth posting up now lol. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

    Velcro, do you not have a piece of plastic that covers the OBD port under the ashtray? Mine has one!.
     

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