S3 Traction control too sensitive? Poll

GSB · Nov 29, 2016

There's a growing number of reports from users with traction control issues on this board (see links below), so I thought it might be a good idea to collate these experiences and see if we can narrow down the root causes.

It'd be nice to see if theres any link between issues and the haldex coupling software, so we need your software details. This may prove to be irrelevant but if a pattern emerges, we should be able to see it. This can be found by taking a picture of the haldex controller, accessible from the passenger side of the car if you lie down, reach under and take a shot between the wheels. Once you've done it, select your option on the poll, and feel free to summarise your experiences and solutions in the thread below.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-traction-control-frequency.295909/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/traction-control-too-obtrusive.301316/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-wheelspin.295474/
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/had-the-back-end-of-the-s3-go-out-anyone-else.300605/

paradigital · Nov 29, 2016

You sure you've got an S3?

I can't get that far under mine and I'll be damned if I'm getting the jack out at -2c outside!

Can you get HW/SW on a facelift using VCDS?

pburv · Nov 29, 2016

Nice thread Grant. :friends:

I have had issues on my MY15 S3 since new last November...
Had the haldex pump replaced @ 6k miles...No further issues since.....300 miles so far.. :yes:

GSB · Nov 29, 2016

paradigital said:
You sure you've got an S3? I can't get that far under mine and I'll be damned if I'm getting the jack out at -2c outside!

Can you get HW/SW on a facelift using VCDS?

Yep, it's an S3, not a Q3.

You can take the shot at arms length with little trouble. No need to climb under the car or jack it up..

paradigital · Nov 29, 2016

Might need a little more guidance on where to aim the camera then, as I couldn't see anything resembling your photo

Rob2k68 · Nov 29, 2016

paradigital said:
You sure you've got an S3? I can't get that far under mine and I'll be damned if I'm getting the jack out at -2c outside!

Can you get HW/SW on a facelift using VCDS?

VCDS will certainly give you the full part number and revision, pretty sure it gives you software version as well - I took a photo of my laptop screen when I was having issues but as you can see it's cropped what I think could be the software version ....

Rob2k68 · Nov 29, 2016

paradigital said:
Might need a little more guidance on where to aim the camera then, as I couldn't see anything resembling your photo

It's here just behind the fuel tank but in front of the anti-roll bar .....

GSB · Nov 29, 2016

You can't see it directly, but as per @Rob2k68 s picture, if you aim just forward of the rear axle line and anti roll bar, and just behind the prop shaft, you'll strike oil. Use your phones screen as a viewfinder, and snap away. Dont forget the flash though...

Rob2k68 · Nov 29, 2016

May also be worth trying to grab the Haldex pump part numbers whilst at it although this is round the other side pretty much opposite the ECU it's the cylindrical object closest to the exhaust.

GSB · Nov 29, 2016

Rob2k68 said:
May also be worth trying to grab the Haldex pump part numbers whilst at it although this is round the other side pretty much opposite the ECU it's the cylindrical object closest to the exhaust.

Worth a shot if you can get it, but at the moment I'm going with the assumption that a pump is a pump, and unless they've done something dramatic to the design to improve its efficiency, older pumps and newer pumps are going to be much the same, especially when you consider the power supply won't have been upgraded to cope with a higher flow rate, pressure or rotor speed.

I'm trying (and currently failing) to get Elsawin to work on my laptop so I can see where the haldex coupling derives its power and data from. It's another assumption, but I have a hunch the electronics module on the diff might not do a great deal more than supervise the pump and the clutch, and provide the interface between the rear driveline and another ECU that's deciding where to route the power flow.

Rob2k68 · Nov 29, 2016

GSB said:
Worth a shot if you can get it, but at the moment I'm going with the assumption that a pump is a pump, and unless they've done something dramatic to the design to improve its efficiency, older pumps and newer pumps are going to be much the same, especially when you consider the power supply won't have been upgraded to cope with a higher flow rate, pressure or rotor speed.

I'm trying (and currently failing) to get Elsawin to work on my laptop so I can see where the haldex coupling derives its power and data from. It's another assumption, but I have a hunch the electronics module on the diff might not do a great deal more than supervise the pump and the clutch, and provide the interface between the rear driveline and another ECU that's deciding where to route the power flow.

Yeah will be interesting to hear what you find mate - I know there's only 5 pins used out of the possible 8 hopefully Elsawin will reveal what they connect to.

mikemod · Nov 29, 2016

Just run a scan on that module(22) in VCDS, mine below, SW version in bold.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD (J492) Labels: 0CQ-907-554.clb
Part No SW: 0CQ 907 554 C HW: 0CQ 525 130
Component: Haldex4Motion H52 7755
Serial number: HA1-00014.06.16
Coding: 0001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_AllWheelContrHA1VW37X 002015
ROD: EV_AllWheelContrHA1VW37X_VW48.rod
VCID: 458AEAAFC4F6A36ADB-8010

No fault code found.

GSB · Nov 29, 2016

mikemod said:
Just run a scan on that module(22) in VCDS, mine below, SW version in bold.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD (J492) Labels: 0CQ-907-554.clb
Part No SW: 0CQ 907 554 C HW: 0CQ 525 130
Component: Haldex4Motion H52 7755
Serial number: HA1-00014.06.16
Coding: 0001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_AllWheelContrHA1VW37X 002015
ROD: EV_AllWheelContrHA1VW37X_VW48.rod
VCID: 458AEAAFC4F6A36ADB-8010

No fault code found.

Do you have issues with TC at the moment?

mikemod · Nov 29, 2016

Yes, detailed in the other threads.

Mine is doing exactly the same thing, as you say you don't even need full throttle and the car bogs down with the traction control light flashing like mad.

I have to turn onto a busy dual carriageway with no slip road so I am now just turning the traction control off to make sure I can accelerate.

Maybe time to start hitting the dealers to get a few logged on the system.

At the moment they will probably blame it on the cold conditions but I have now winter tyres on and it makes no difference.
Turn the traction control off and in the same conditions there is no wheelspin and the car just takes off.

It would be interesting if you could get a scan of your car or look underneath to see what version of the haldex controller you have as there seem to be a few different ones about.

Mine is:

0CQ 907 554 C
HW Version H52
SW Version 7755

Mine from a standstill is fine, no drama just takes off.
It seems to be when in 2nd/3rd at lowish revs, then give it some, not even full throttle and it actually feels as if the car is slowing down, TC light flashing and then eventually it starts to accelerate.
Meanwhile the tricked up 306 with the blackened bumper has just gone past

paradigital · Nov 30, 2016

Finally found an angle to get a shot of mine (which thus far has shown no problems for what it's worth).

Mine's an auto, with software 7083.

Date stickers on my controller show 17.08.16 and 13.09.16

AudiNutta · Dec 1, 2016

Mine is software 7083

Dates are: 13/07/16 and 25/06/16.

Also, as the above post.. if people don't have problems, could we not add to the vote please? Defeats the object of us having this as we are trying to find the fault you units not what is working fine!

paradigital · Dec 1, 2016

Well no, surely if you are looking for a pattern you also need to know what combinations work fine, otherwise you have a smaller data set and might stumble across a false positive pattern.

Basic statistics lessons would show you this.

You should have added specific options for reporting no problems with the car.

DrEskimo · Dec 1, 2016

paradigital said:
Well no, surely if you are looking for a pattern you also need to know what combinations work fine, otherwise you have a smaller data set and might stumble across a false positive pattern.

Basic statistics lessons would show you this.

You should have added specific options for reporting no problems with the car.

Indeed. You ideally want every user to post their unit and then whether they have issues or not.

Guess the issue is operationalising 'over sensitive' TC. Quite subjective....

GSB · Dec 1, 2016

Ahem...

If by "you" you mean me, then for the poll I asked the question with the qualifier, "If you are having traction control issues...".

To be clear, I don't want to know about cars that don't have issues, nor which software they are running. I'm sure that there are thousands of them working just fine but they're not the ones I'm interested in. I'm looking to see if there is some fundamental relationship between software sets and reported difficulties. If everyone fills in the poll regardless of whether they have issues or not I just get a list of most common software, and there's not enough permitted options available in the poll to permit the number of choices needed to do anything more comprehensive.

I suspect that there is no relationship anyway, since I'm convinced that the software in the diff controller manages only the basic functions of the electro-hydraulic system and is reacting to demand signals for torque transfer that originate in another controller on the CAN network.

Plus there's also my original "ham fisted gibbons" hypothesis, which may still prove to have merit. The fact that there are more separate threads on this subject than there are people entering data in this poll is raising the possibility that there's no issue at all.

AudiNutta · Dec 1, 2016

paradigital said:
Well no, surely if you are looking for a pattern you also need to know what combinations work fine, otherwise you have a smaller data set and might stumble across a false positive pattern.

Basic statistics lessons would show you this.

You should have added specific options for reporting no problems with the car.

Yes that's the other option, increase the size of the poll to suit.

@GSB Is it possible to edit who has voted on the poll mate to correct it? I am going to fire an email off to Audi or pay a visit tomorrow to ask if there are any technical bulletins on the maintenance system of the Haldex system.

Flying Scotsman · Dec 1, 2016

Grant, there also seem to be no issues on this specific matter on other Audi forums. It might just be the time of year....wet and frosty roads...plus summer tyres below 7 degrees Celsius.

AudiNutta · Dec 1, 2016

Flying Scotsman said:
Grant, there also seem to be no issues on this specific matter on other Audi forums. It might just be the time of year....wet and frosty roads...plus summer tyres below 7 degrees Celsius.

It isn't, it's happened since I got my car in October.. it's not anything silly.

DrEskimo · Dec 2, 2016

GSB said:
Ahem...

If by "you" you mean me, then for the poll I asked the question with the qualifier, "If you are having traction control issues...".

To be clear, I don't want to know about cars that don't have issues, nor which software they are running. I'm sure that there are thousands of them working just fine but they're not the ones I'm interested in. I'm looking to see if there is some fundamental relationship between software sets and reported difficulties. If everyone fills in the poll regardless of whether they have issues or not I just get a list of most common software, and there's not enough permitted options available in the poll to permit the number of choices needed to do anything more comprehensive.

I suspect that there is no relationship anyway, since I'm convinced that the software in the diff controller manages only the basic functions of the electro-hydraulic system and is reacting to demand signals for torque transfer that originate in another controller on the CAN network.

Plus there's also my original "ham fisted gibbons" hypothesis, which may still prove to have merit. The fact that there are more separate threads on this subject than there are people entering data in this poll is raising the possibility that there's no issue at all.

Yes but if everyone on here who reports TC problems has, for example, software 7082, then what can you conclude? That software 7082 causes the TC problem? Cant say either way really....

What I would do is a matched case-control and ask people with the same cars built in the same year who haven't reported TC problems to say what software they have and then you can compare. If all the people with TC problems (cases) have software 7082 and all their matched members without TC problems (controls) have software 7083, then you may be on to something....

To help your confounding from people driving like 'ham fisted gibbons', you could match based on driving ability/style as well.....but I don't think that would end well

GSB · Dec 2, 2016

AudiNutta said:
Yes that's the other option, increase the size of the poll to suit.

@GSB Is it possible to edit who has voted on the poll mate to correct it? I am going to fire an email off to Audi or pay a visit tomorrow to ask if there are any technical bulletins on the maintenance system of the Haldex system.

Nope, users can change their own vote, but I can't edit it. I would think you'd need to be a moderator.

DrEskimo said:
Yes but if everyone on here who reports TC problems has, for example, software 7082, then what can you conclude? That software 7082 causes the TC problem? Cant say either way really....

What I would do is a matched case-control and ask people with the same cars built in the same year who haven't reported TC problems to say what software they have and then you can compare. If all the people with TC problems (cases) have software 7082 and all their matched members without TC problems (controls) have software 7083, then you may be on to something....

To help your confounding from people driving like 'ham fisted gibbons', you could match based on driving ability/style as well.....but I don't think that would end well

There will be no conclusions at this stage, only guidance for future direction and data gathering, and hopefully a single discussion thread to compile all the info. Sadly, your control case scenario requires two things we don't have; more possible poll choices (there's a limited number of choices you can enter) and members with no issues and therefore zero motivation to crawl under their cars for us. Unlikely to happen I'd have thought.

The gibbons poll is probably a non starter. I imagine if I put a poll together that says, are you;
(a) a helmsmith of unparalleled natural talent, whose dedication to the plastering/IT/propane gas sales business, combined with a dislike of champagne was the only block to your becoming F1 world champion.
(b) a driver who is demonstrably better than average, and certainly safer at 80mph than most people are at 40,
Or (c) a driver of barely passable competence, who struggles to remember which way to turn the steering wheel when reversing, and really shouldn't have 300hp at your disposal.

I think the results will actually be the direct opposite of reality.

AudiNutta · Dec 2, 2016

GSB said:
Nope, users can change their own vote, but I can't edit it. I would think you'd need to be a moderator.

There will be no conclusions at this stage, only guidance for future direction and data gathering, and hopefully a single discussion thread to compile all the info. Sadly, your control case scenario requires two things we don't have; more possible poll choices (there's a limited number of choices you can enter) and members with no issues and therefore zero motivation to crawl under their cars for us. Unlikely to happen I'd have thought.

The gibbons poll is probably a non starter. I imagine if I put a poll together that says, are you;
(a) a helmsmith of unparalleled natural talent, whose dedication to the plastering/IT/propane gas sales business, combined with a dislike of champagne was the only block to your becoming F1 world champion.
(b) a driver who is demonstrably better than average, and certainly safer at 80mph than most people are at 40,
Or (c) a driver of barely passable competence, who struggles to remember which way to turn the steering wheel when reversing, and really shouldn't have 300hp at your disposal.

I think the results will actually be the direct opposite of reality.

That made me laugh after a night shift, fantastic.

Well hopefully a moderator can step in and correct the poll.. or those who have voted will have the decency to remove their vote. We need to be able to see what software version sees the most issues if any.

Martinbanshee · Dec 2, 2016

I've no issues with my Haldex and haven't had the TC intervening lately but my FWD VW Caddy which has good Bridgestone tyres all round has been sliding everywhere this last few weeks. I suspect the dry weather was masking Haldex issues for some and the crappy roads are just highlighting the faults.
The roads are seriously greasy here now that the gritting has started and it's wetter but my car still has very impressive grip, especially coming off of roundabouts where my van will usually want to spin its wheels.
It'll be interesting to see how common this issue is.

Dan_G · Dec 5, 2016

1500 miles on the car now and the TC light is coming on occasionally - it surprised me in a supermarket car park the other day when i was gently bumping over one of those speed bumps you can nearly get your wheels either side of. It also happens fairly regularly when I use considerably more throttle suddenly after 'coasting' for a few meters, like going onto a roundabout.......

Also, off the lights, where i used to floor the pre FL S3 and it would red line in S1, the new one takes time to get going and seems to shift up early. Seems to be holding back until you are up above 20 mph and into S2 and then allows full delivery of power.

I also find that sometimes it 'trips over itself' - flooring the pedal only for it to change up a gear, cut all power, change down 2 gears and then feed the power in. May simply be bad timing but its happened twice that i can remember.

Glad others are having this, i though it was only me.

I'll grab a snap of the rear controller later and do the poll.

AudiNutta · Dec 5, 2016

Strangely enough I haven't noticed mine kick in for a good few days, I'm sure I will start having the issues again.

Strange how it's been better now the roads are icy haha. Keep forgetting I have 300hp under my right foot in these conditions. I did my 5th launch last week, got out of the car and slipped on ice.. surprised me!! Need to remember how easy it is to get into danger haha.

James Cole · Mar 25, 2017

Hello Guys... any updates on this?

GSB · Mar 25, 2017

It seems that software version have no influence, since all the failures fixed by dealers so far have been pump, valve, or clutch based.

James Cole · Mar 25, 2017

So could I have a failed system even with 3,000 kms on the clock? By the way this is not driving like a mad man, just erratic behaviour on uneven surfaces part throttle...

I have never been able to detect "slip" in this car so full throttle even road it behaves perfectly, I suspect that if there was an AWD failure making the car FWD the problem would be exactly when requesting too much power and this is not the case.

BTW TCS sport or off problem goes away completely, hope we could set TCS sport by default at every start...

Ofarlig · Mar 26, 2017

Can someone tell me what constitutes a "problem" with traction control?

Winter tyres on wet roads will slip a lot on any car that has some power, so will summer tyres while cold (around 5 celsius). In the winter time any tyre will slip regardless almost all the time if you add some throttle. Launching with summer tyres in the summer on wet will slip too.

AudiNutta · Mar 26, 2017

Ofarlig said:
Can someone tell me what constitutes a "problem" with traction control?

Winter tyres on wet roads will slip a lot on any car that has some power, so will summer tyres while cold (around 5 celsius). In the winter time any tyre will slip regardless almost all the time if you add some throttle. Launching with summer tyres in the summer on wet will slip too.

But there is no slip, that's the problem. Turn the TC off and never once have I ever had a hint of slip. The TC kicks in before you get any response from the engine, it's an if it's based on throttle position.

Ofarlig · Mar 26, 2017

AudiNutta said:
But there is no slip, that's the problem. Turn the TC off and never once have I ever had a hint of slip. The TC kicks in before you get any response from the engine, it's an if it's based on throttle position.

Okay, I do not have that at all then. I have slip often instead, whenever I am a bit heavy on the throttle in the conditions I described above. Winter over here is just pure slipping most of the time unless you nanny drive it, thats when four wheel drive can be fun, just keep on the throttle in the corner and eventually you go where you want to.

jojo90 · Apr 17, 2024

Anyone manage to get to the bottom of this? I have a 2017 S3 and the traction control light has just started coming on when I put my foot to the floor, press the ESC button to disable it and it accelerates as it should with no wheel spin.

S3 Traction control too sensitive? Poll

If you're having traction control issues, what car / software are you driving?

S3 Manual / software 7082

S3 Manual / software 7083

S3 Manual / software 7755

S3 Auto / software 7082

S3 Auto / software 7083

S3 Auto / software 7755

Other option not listed, please detail in the thread below.

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