it's about time to start my own s3 build thread

Good luck with the fix....I hope it works.

The odd thing is that some SMF clutches,such as the Spec,aren't troubled by this at all,so it does seem specific to certain clutches like the Loba SMF.

Whatever the cause,if you get a solution to it,some people will be very grateful..
 
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Thanks mate.
I know, it's a bit hit and miss with these boxes and clutches. I know this is vw design flaw and materials they use. Seems that these boxes were designed only for oem dmf setups.
Spec seems to make their kits differently from others and that is good. But some cars had this issue with few different smf setups.
I'll try to fix it this way. It could be the ultimate and final fix.
If i get say spec clutch kit it might work and it might not so that's a lottery for me and there's definitely input shaft play so i doubt that new clutch kit would fix this.
 
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S. said:
Thanks mate.
I know, it's a bit hit and miss with these boxes and clutches. I know this is vw design flaw and materials they use. Seems that these boxes were designed only for oem dmf setups.
Spec seems to make their kits differently from others and that is good. But some cars had this issue with few different smf setups.
I'll try to fix it this way. It could be the ultimate and final fix.
If i get say spec clutch kit it might work and it might not so that's a lottery for me and there's definitely input shaft play so i doubt that new clutch kit would fix this.
Click to expand...

Totally agree....there is clearly some sort of difference,but I have no idea what it is!

I think I was very fortunate,and also had been warned about the problems with some clutches,so I was able to dodge that one,but VAG do seem very intolerant of some aftermarket bits....
 
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I also have this occasionally with 4th gear and I am spec 2+, it is the input shaft at fault.
 
It gets worse by the time/milage.
I remember when i first upgraded clutch it was perfect but over the time i started to hate my own car because i couldn't drive it properly.
 
Its a strange one because personally mine is ok ,it only slightly misses 4th occasionally at high rpm ,but from what i have read and been told it is caused by play in the input shaft and smf set ups will suffer with it , the input shaft extension mod is supposed to eliminate the problem .
 
Engine and gearbox are out.
Gearbox has been taken apart. There are few other things that are bad on it too after inspection. Now waiting for the price for the parts. Not good start of the 2017 for my wallet. On the bright side turbo has been fitted. She might be running again by the end of the week.
 
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How annoying to find that yet more parts needs replacing, what's on the list now? At least there's some good news that the turbo has been fitted I guess!
 
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Still waiting to hear from my mechanic, but for now seals, shift forks, new release bearing, maybe bearings and so on. There's a play in input shaft that has been confirmed. So we will do the input shaft mod. Clutch is still in great shape. Turbo being fitted is a great news but on the other hand, turbo seals failing was a bad one. I guess i just had bad luck.
 
No good sorry to hear bud, it all adds up so quickly! I've got wet passenger footwells *** as well as others things to look at, yet more money being thrown at repairs, stage 2+ keeps getting further and further away :(

That input shaft mod will be a big one though and will hopefully sort out the play issue lots are finding. Yeah for sure, it seems like a lot of S3's have been having bad luck in the past year or so!
 
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S. said:
Still waiting to hear from my mechanic, but for now seals, shift forks, new release bearing, maybe bearings and so on. There's a play in input shaft that has been confirmed. So we will do the input shaft mod. Clutch is still in great shape. Turbo being fitted is a great news but on the other hand, turbo seals failing was a bad one. I guess i just had bad luck.
Click to expand...

When mine was opened at 40k miles it was bearings and the transfer case was toast.

The box had whined a bit from new so that was thought to be the origin and given the current updates had done the same miles with a lot more torque it's probably right

Good luck
 
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S. said:
Still waiting to hear from my mechanic, but for now seals, shift forks, new release bearing, maybe bearings and so on. There's a play in input shaft that has been confirmed. So we will do the input shaft mod. Clutch is still in great shape. Turbo being fitted is a great news but on the other hand, turbo seals failing was a bad one. I guess i just had bad luck.
Click to expand...
Could you let me know what it costs you to carry out the input shaft mod please once you know ?
 
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HHS3 said:
No good sorry to hear bud, it all adds up so quickly! I've got wet passenger footwells *** as well as others things to look at, yet more money being thrown at repairs, stage 2+ keeps getting further and further away :(

That input shaft mod will be a big one though and will hopefully sort out the play issue lots are finding. Yeah for sure, it seems like a lot of S3's have been having bad luck in the past year or so!
Click to expand...
Thanks. Yeah it adds pretty quickly when things go wrong.
Input shaft is the mod i've been looking to do for long time but since i didn't have much info on it and the box needed to be taken off i left it for some other day. I guess that day came now.
I'm happy to test this mod and if it works to help anyone with this issue on manual boxes.
S3Alex said:
When mine was opened at 40k miles it was bearings and the transfer case was toast.

The box had whined a bit from new so that was thought to be the origin and given the current updates had done the same miles with a lot more torque it's probably right

Good luck
Click to expand...
Thanks alex.
Mine is at 76 k km so that's similar mileage. Seems that 02M boxes are slightly better than 02Q boxes which i have. Mechanic says that bearings aren't that bad but that the input shaft has a play and shift forks need replacing and release bearing. Once the mod has been caried it should be beauty to drive with added extra power.
MICHAEL PARKER said:
Could you let me know what it costs you to carry out the input shaft mod please once you know ?
Click to expand...
Yes mate, as i wrote earlier, after i'll get the car back and test it for a bit i'll do the gearbox mod thread with parts, work and dimensions needed to do it.
I can give you ball park figgures because it's mostly up to how much they'll charge you to take the box off, then to take it apart and back on + how much will the they charge you to extend the shaft which any decent metal shop could do it once i get the right dimensions. New oem parts needed just for the mod are new input shaft bearing, seals, end cap, and pilot bearing from dsg cars (this one costs less than 10€), and probably new release bearing.
Hope it helps for now..
 
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Input shaft mod is done, shaft came back from the machine shop. Now i hope it fits everything nicely and it works. I'm really excited! Pics to follow sometime later.
 
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so got the car back for some time now. and it seems that input shaft mod, pilot bearing, release bearing and shims behind the release bearing did make a change.
when i first got the car, the shifter cable end links weren't re-adjusted but i immediately noticed difference, an improvement in the right direction. shifting into 1-2 at any occasion is free, there's no more annoying sticking in the 1st or 2nd gear when i had to push the clutch few times to get it out of the gear. this seems to be solved by adding shims behind the release bearing. this helps the bearing to fully release stronger pressure plate.
next after going through gears at different rpm's i've noticed that everything works fine. but the biggest improvement was that now i can shift without issues at higher rpm's. shifting above 6500 rpm's. tried it even at 7000-7200 rpm's and it just works. it wasn't perfect still but that seems to be caused by end links and short shifter setting. after just re-adjusting the end links the car felt even better, great shift feel, very precise, and 1-2-3 (didn't have the chance to try higher gears) rapid shifts at the red line without single issue. it really made my day after that. all the problems i had seems to be gone after doing the input shaft mod. i'm very happy with the result. i'm in love with my car, and i'm really enjoying driving it. shifting feels perfect now.
dimensions for the extension for the input shafts we used are 25 mm lenght and 15 mm diameter and the pilot bearing from vw dsg cars.

i had also turbo rebuild, new gaskets , oil sump and pickup pipe changed, spark plugs, cam follower, top mounts, shift forks etc...
car was later on the rollers to see if everything is fine and to get mapping done/adjusted.

here are few pics
IMG 20170213 WA0019

gearbox parts ready for assembling
0bd3bc8c d97c 4776 880c 9677268bcdd8

input shaft mod - extension which fits into pilot bearing, dim: l=25mm, d=15mm
IMG 20170325 WA0002

pilot bearing being fitted
IMG 20170125 WA0029

pilot bearing fitted
IMG 20170125 WA0041

everything put back together and ready for test drive
20170327 165044

by the lake :D
20170329 185044

on the rollers collecting data and mapping
0fe78c29 39cc 4ce7 8d45 15df532ad143

and for the end one proffesional pic.:hearteyecat:
still got to do geometry, fit summer wheels, and other little bits, but the major one are finaly done now.

hope this helps anyone that has similar issues with the gearbox and has time and nerves to fix it.
love this car again:hearteyes::hearteyes:

Regards,
S.
 
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Great result,and one which should help quite a few people.
 
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Good to hear mate, well in for the write up as well.

Glad that you've managed to sort out the shifting issue and especially that you're enjoying the car more!
 
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Yes. I'm really glad it is done now. Was a bit worried if it will work but it works and it's great.
I've noticed since i got the car back that there's no reverse parking aid and also reverse light. Got new reverse switch fitted and everything is working again.
Fitted summer setup and did geometry which wasn't that much off.
Oh and little pops and bangs were added to the map:racer:
 
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Little update.
Today i adjusted short shifter to the longest throw which is still shorter than oem shifter and re-adjusted cables.
Tested everything with engine off and seemed fine and smooth. Went for a drive and wow. I had so much fun!! Gear shifts 1-2-3-4 at 7000 rpm are so nice, fast, and precise every single time. No more getting stuck in 1st or 2nd gear and having to press the clutch few more times to get it out 1st and 2nd.
Throw is longer and i need to get used to that, but other than that everything is great and improved.
Seems that i have finally solved my gearbox issue (with loba/sachs smf clutch kit in my case) that was going for years and made me hate driving my car.
Now once again i can enjoy driving it properly:racer:
 
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Glad you're enjoying it buddy! Can't beat taking a car for a good run when it feels right!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 
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S. said:
Yes. I'm really glad it is done now. Was a bit worried if it will work but it works and it's great.
I've noticed since i got the car back that there's no reverse parking aid and also reverse light. Got new reverse switch fitted and everything is working again.
Fitted summer setup and did geometry which wasn't that much off.
Oh and little pops and bangs were added to the map:racer:
Click to expand...
Any videos of the pops and bangs mate? In your opinion is this safe to do? Mines at stage 2+ but its going in for a tweek on friday for the intercooler and FRV and im in 2 minds whether to have the pops and bangs loaded into the map, thanks
 
Not yet mate. I don't know if it's safe i guess ot should be. It's not that loud barely noticable from the cabin.
 
S. said:
so got the car back for some time now. and it seems that input shaft mod, pilot bearing, release bearing and shims behind the release bearing did make a change.
when i first got the car, the shifter cable end links weren't re-adjusted but i immediately noticed difference, an improvement in the right direction. shifting into 1-2 at any occasion is free, there's no more annoying sticking in the 1st or 2nd gear when i had to push the clutch few times to get it out of the gear. this seems to be solved by adding shims behind the release bearing. this helps the bearing to fully release stronger pressure plate.
next after going through gears at different rpm's i've noticed that everything works fine. but the biggest improvement was that now i can shift without issues at higher rpm's. shifting above 6500 rpm's. tried it even at 7000-7200 rpm's and it just works. it wasn't perfect still but that seems to be caused by end links and short shifter setting. after just re-adjusting the end links the car felt even better, great shift feel, very precise, and 1-2-3 (didn't have the chance to try higher gears) rapid shifts at the red line without single issue. it really made my day after that. all the problems i had seems to be gone after doing the input shaft mod. i'm very happy with the result. i'm in love with my car, and i'm really enjoying driving it. shifting feels perfect now.
dimensions for the extension for the input shafts we used are 25 mm lenght and 15 mm diameter and the pilot bearing from vw dsg cars.

i had also turbo rebuild, new gaskets , oil sump and pickup pipe changed, spark plugs, cam follower, top mounts, shift forks etc...
car was later on the rollers to see if everything is fine and to get mapping done/adjusted.

here are few pics
View attachment 121494
gearbox parts ready for assembling
View attachment 121495
input shaft mod - extension which fits into pilot bearing, dim: l=25mm, d=15mm
View attachment 121496
pilot bearing being fitted
View attachment 121497
pilot bearing fitted
View attachment 121498
everything put back together and ready for test drive
View attachment 121499
by the lake :D
View attachment 121500
on the rollers collecting data and mapping
View attachment 121501
and for the end one proffesional pic.:hearteyecat:
still got to do geometry, fit summer wheels, and other little bits, but the major one are finaly done now.

hope this helps anyone that has similar issues with the gearbox and has time and nerves to fix it.
love this car again:hearteyes::hearteyes:

Regards,
S.
Click to expand...
I might go down the input shaft mod but after reading about you altering your shortshift to the furthest setting I might try that first , we were at Santa pod yesterday and most of our shifts were no problem at all but occasionally at 7500 it can be difficult to engage 4th as I have said before , it's like you have to kind of push it once and add a bit more pressure than you should to engage , I want it sorting .
 
MICHAEL PARKER said:
I might go down the input shaft mod but after reading about you altering your shortshift to the furthest setting I might try that first , we were at Santa pod yesterday and most of our shifts were no problem at all but occasionally at 7500 it can be difficult to engage 4th as I have said before , it's like you have to kind of push it once and add a bit more pressure than you should to engage , I want it sorting .
Click to expand...
Hi mate.
Yes, try that first, and align the cables properly. And then see if it makes difference.
I've had it done before but it made no difference in my case so i had it set to the middle point.
I went this route as my car was off the road having other work done. i had this issue for a long time and had issues shifting above 6000rpm on wot in general, and getting stuck in 1st and 2nd for a long time. I hated my car and shifted below 6000rpm. This was going for years, and i was searching for solution everywhere. Most of them were to try different clutch setup which i doubt would help a lot other than throwing more money in the wrong direction. Then i gathered all the info and talked about it with my mechanic who said it makes sense and was willing to do it for me. I was willing to take a risk and didn't know if it will work or will i ruin the gearbox. It was a long wait to get the parts manufactured but it was worth in the end.

Yesterday i went again on a test drive and i was mind blown how it did improve shifts. I had a go 1st to 4th on wot shifting at 7200-7400 rpms (for testing purpose) and i think it was as fast as it is possible without flat shift, smooth and precise. I could easily say that it's at least same as it was when the car was new and bone stock.
Adding stiffer mounts should be final touch but that will have to wait for a while.
Realy enyoing it again.

I hope i'll get some videos how it works.

By the way what were your times? I've never had a 1/4 mile run with mine. And only had 3-4 launches ever.
 
S. said:
Hi mate.
Yes, try that first, and align the cables properly. And then see if it makes difference.
I've had it done before but it made no difference in my case so i had it set to the middle point.
I went this route as my car was off the road having other work done. i had this issue for a long time and had issues shifting above 6000rpm on wot in general, and getting stuck in 1st and 2nd for a long time. I hated my car and shifted below 6000rpm. This was going for years, and i was searching for solution everywhere. Most of them were to try different clutch setup which i doubt would help a lot other than throwing more money in the wrong direction. Then i gathered all the info and talked about it with my mechanic who said it makes sense and was willing to do it for me. I was willing to take a risk and didn't know if it will work or will i ruin the gearbox. It was a long wait to get the parts manufactured but it was worth in the end.

Yesterday i went again on a test drive and i was mind blown how it did improve shifts. I had a go 1st to 4th on wot shifting at 7200-7400 rpms (for testing purpose) and i think it was as fast as it is possible without flat shift, smooth and precise. I could easily say that it's at least same as it was when the car was new and bone stock.
Adding stiffer mounts should be final touch but that will have to wait for a while.
Realy enyoing it again.

I hope i'll get some videos how it works.

By the way what were your times? I've never had a 1/4 mile run with mine. And only had 3-4 launches ever.
Click to expand...
Alex at AKS has asked me if I have flat shift on my map because that can really help , my issue is only ever 4th , all other gears are fine and its only over 6500 rpm ,I need to find out if Niki has added flat shift although i don't fully understand how to do flatshift , are you supposed to keep on the accelerator whilst changing gear ? as for times we were disappointed tbh , 2 of us in the car and the best run was 13.9 @107mph, it was way too hot and intake temps were 70 degrees which was a problem ,I am even thinking of getting back on the rollers to check the car is still making its power although it is crazy fast on the road tbh , just a bit paranoid at the moment now , a TTE480 golf R mk6 dsg did 11.8 @117 mph .
 
i've heard that the flat shift really helps.
You got it right thats how flat shift works.
My issue started same as yours with 4th gear ocasionaly then it got worse. Hope yours will be ok.
 
S. said:
i've heard that the flat shift really helps.
You got it right thats how flat shift works.
My issue started same as yours with 4th gear ocasionaly then it got worse. Hope yours will be ok.
Click to expand...
I will get it sorted , the car hardly gets used and tbh its 1 out of every 50 times that the problem occurs , do you knoe the costs involved to do the input shaft mod ?
 
I had a lots of things done and paid for the lot but if i remember just sorting the gearbox cost me 300-400£ (input shaft and release bearing shim 80-100£, pilot bearing is 10-15£ and the rest was for other parts and labour). But over here labour is much cheaper and so was manufacturing the input shaft extension.

If you don't have time or will to mess with it there are shops that sell shims or mod input shaft for you but you'll have to send them your input shaft.
There's also 4th gear support kit that's worth looking at but i didn't get that part for now.
 
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S. said:
I had a lots of things done and paid for the lot but if i remember just sorting the gearbox cost me 300-400£ (input shaft and release bearing shim 80-100£, pilot bearing is 10-15£ and the rest was for other parts and labour). But over here labour is much cheaper and so was manufacturing the input shaft extension.

If you don't have time or will to mess with it there are shops that sell shims or mod input shaft for you but you'll have to send them your input shaft.
There's also 4th gear support kit that's worth looking at but i didn't get that part for now.
Click to expand...
AKS supply the input shaft mod all done , where can i get the 4th gear support ?
 
That's great then!
How much is it?
I think darkside developments or bar-tek sell the 4th gear support part.
 
S. said:
That's great then!
How much is it?
I think darkside developments or bar-tek sell the 4th gear support part.
Click to expand...
Not sure on the cost , need to speak to Alex about it , the car is in with them in june having the Loba turbo installed .
 
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Nice! Then that's the opportunity to get the whole lot done?
 
fitted uprated engine mounts and removed forge short shifter.
upon inspection, my engine mounts were worn and had so much play after 50k miles.
after fitting the mounts, and reverting to stock shifter with 42 draft design bushings everything is perfect now.
Shifts are smooth, precise, super fast, without one single issue all the way through the rev range to the rev limiter.
 
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audi upgrades
S. said:
fitted uprated engine mounts and removed forge short shifter.
upon inspection, my engine mounts were worn and had so much play after 50k miles.
after fitting the mounts, and reverting to stock shifter with 42 draft design bushings everything is perfect now.
Shifts are smooth, precise, super fast, without one single issue all the way through the rev range to the rev limiter.
Click to expand...

Uprating the mounts or even just replacing the stock ones after a decent mileage does make a big difference......the mounts on mine were swapped to VWR(Vibratech) "fast road" mounts quite a while ago,and the gearbox mount was changed to an RS3 part recently when the gearbox was changed.

I could certainly feel the difference from the engine not moving around under load,although the downside can be the added vibration and harshness from hard or solid mounts.
I personally think it's a price worth paying especially on Stg2+ or big turbo cars.
 
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S3Alex said:
Uprating the mounts or even just replacing the stock ones after a decent mileage does make a big difference......the mounts on mine were swapped to VWR(Vibratech) "fast road" mounts quite a while ago,and the gearbox mount was changed to an RS3 part recently when the gearbox was changed.

I could certainly feel the difference from the engine not moving around under load,although the downside can be the added vibration and harshness from hard or solid mounts.
I personally think it's a price worth paying especially on Stg2+ or big turbo cars.
Click to expand...
what do you recon is a fair time to replace the mounts on a Stage 2+ car?
mine is 38k miles, and cant tell if i need new mounts or not. i recently replaced the dogbone pendulum mount and it does feel more solid
 
Mine is at 50k if it helps.

@S3Alex I have powerflex inserts (their new product for PQ35 platform) and they really do stiffen mounts up. The shifts are now incredible. And NVH is barely noticable with them. So they seem to be ideal if the NVH is concern.
I know i've only done 100kms with them so will se how they feel when they settle in.
 
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fernando young said:
what do you recon is a fair time to replace the mounts on a Stage 2+ car?
mine is 38k miles, and cant tell if i need new mounts or not. i recently replaced the dogbone pendulum mount and it does feel more solid
Click to expand...

I had mine done at around 40k miles as part of a lot of upgrades and whilst I certainly noticed the extra vibration etc,I'm sure it improved the tightness of the mounting etc.
 
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S. said:
fitted uprated engine mounts and removed forge short shifter.
upon inspection, my engine mounts were worn and had so much play after 50k miles.
after fitting the mounts, and reverting to stock shifter with 42 draft design bushings everything is perfect now.
Shifts are smooth, precise, super fast, without one single issue all the way through the rev range to the rev limiter.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that you've resolved all of the issues you were having bud and that you can properly enjoy driving your S3 again!

I'm still waiting to fit my Spec 2+ clutch & steel SMF in preparation for stage 2+ once my stock clutch goes. I'll also be going for two of the 42 DD kits as well as replacing some OEM parts, I was going to fit a Forge short shifter but you've removed yours, what made you do this?

Interesting to know about the engine mounts, my S3 is at 65K and so mine will no doubt need replacing as well, I'm stuck in two mind about replacing with stock or hardened mounts. The only thing putting me off is the vibrations with hardened mounts because I'll be fitting a SMF as well as the uprated dog mount with a BCS DP, so not sure how harsh the vibrations will be after all that. You've got a similar setup, how harsh is it? I don't mind some vibrations as will have music playing most of the time but I don't want to crack all of my passengers teeth as well.
 
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Yeah i'm glad too, after searching for solution for years. Sorted the shifting issues now i can move on other gremlins.
I've removed short shifter because with the mounts out i had a chance to revert it to stock in order to try to improve shifting ( side to side one can't be removed without removing the gearbox mount). So i had it done. I don't know if actually oem shifter helped or it was due to engine movment from worn engine mounts but now it's spot on. I'll rather get back oem shifter and have perfect gear changes than have shorter throw.
I'll probably have short shifter for sale as i can't see how could i change it again without proper tools.
About the mounts, yeah the NVH from stiffer ones seem to put a lot people off.
But obviusly it helps a lot with manuals and i guess with dsg too.
I had powerflex inserts which are not full mounts and theese fill the gaps in oem mounts, which might be compromise between full mounts and oem mounts i terms of NVH. I allread had purple (track) dogbone insert, and there's slightly more vibrations at idle, but barely noticable and i only did 100kms with them on. So not bad at all, and it allows perfect fast shifts at 7k every time and it seems to put the power down better and easier.
It's a win win in my opinion for a daily car. Eventualy i might go for proper mounts but these feel right on the road.
 
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Ah I see fair enough, makes good sense and I too would rather perfect shifting!

Interesting to hear about the mounts as well so thanks for taking the time to write it all up. Would you mind linking the Powerflex inserts you got please? Did you get new OEM mounts to go with them as well?

Cheers.
 
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