B6 S4 Hesitation and Camshaft Position Sensor errors

gpfwestie · Jun 16, 2016

Hi All,

Bought an S4 about a month ago and thought it seemed great, if not that fast. It also hesitates for half a second if you floor it from low revs (say 2000rpm).

I took it into Audi, and they read these codes :-

P1573: Left Electro-Hydraulic Engine Mount Solenoid Valve Open circuit
P1340: Camshaft pos./crank shaft pos. sensor Incorrect allocation
P0501: Vehicle Speed Sensor "A" Range/Performance

I asked them to look into it further and they have said I will need to have the cam timing chains replaced, and the cost was many thousands of pounds.

I had a look through the receipts i got with the car, and found one for this done 4 years and 17K miles ago.

Remove / Replace engine
S4 Camchain and tensioner set
S4 inlet VVT Cam Adjuster

Any idea what's going on ?

rjm180 · Jun 17, 2016

Hi Sorry to hear of your troubles. Was the original work carried out by Audi? Have you contacted whoever did the work to see if they have any further info.

mattmanwrx · Jun 17, 2016

Out of interest what were you driving before?

I think the half second delay is just the fly by throttle system, as it is a little lazy.

gpfwestie · Jun 17, 2016

Hi Thanks for the reply's,

The work was carried out by Dialynx performance in Swindon, I'm just about to try get some more details. The original quote was £2200 which seems like some substantial work to me.

My other car (thankfully I kept it !) is an my97 Subaru Impreza Turbo. We tried some roll on acceleration tests and the S4 is only marginally faster - which doesn't seem right.

The S4 does go really well above about 5K, and revs great to the limiter, but maybe this is normal ?

mattmanwrx · Jun 17, 2016

I had a 99 Scooby turbo before buying my s4 cab. I feel the same that the throttle lagged but I think it is just fly by throttle compared to a mechanical one tbh.

My s4 does feel faster but only by a bit too. Got to remember the weight of the car. My cab weighs 1860kg so like 2 ton with 2 people in it. The power to weight ratio is like 183bhp, so not a lot. And then minus the four wheel drive system!! Still a lot nicer than my Subaru and I do think it is faster, just doesn't feel as fast with the turbo boost.

Also, £2200 for the cam belt change is about right, it's a cam chain which is very very big, and is an engine out job

THQuattro · Jun 17, 2016

Hi mate , i would get another Audi specialist to check it.

gpfwestie · Jun 17, 2016

I think I've been adding 2 + 2 and getting 5 (and worrying a lot)

There is slight hesitation, it's not much faster than my scooby, and the dealer recommends the most expensive fix they can think of.

Yet it idles perfectly, has no cam chain rattle, makes no noises and happily revs all the way to the red-line.

I'll get it back from Audi and take it to a specialist for a second opinion next week.

Thanks for all the help.

QuattroCalum · Jun 26, 2016

I looked into the P1340 code as the word allocation didn't ring true, here's what I found http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17748/P1340/004928

gpfwestie · Jul 24, 2016

So, I got another specialist to check it, who said the same thing - engine out. I purchased a VCDS Lite cable and am now able to read the codes, plus read the blocks, these were some I thought might be useful, does anyone know what they signify ?

Group 091
Engine Speed: 800 /min
Engine Load: 5.1%
Cam Adj Intake Status: Off
Cam Adj Intake B1 (act): -5.5 deg

Group 092
Engine Speed: 800 /min
Engine Load: 5.1%
Cam Adj Intake Status: Off
Cam Adj Intake B2 (act): 0.0 deg KW

Anyhow, I decided to start taking everything apart to see if I can see physically whats wrong, here are some pictures so far :-

Ruhel · Jul 24, 2016

gpfwestie said:
So, I got another specialist to check it, who said the same thing - engine out. I purchased a VCDS Lite cable and am now able to read the codes, plus read the blocks, these were some I thought might be useful, does anyone know what they signify ?

Group 091
Engine Speed: 800 /min
Engine Load: 5.1%
Cam Adj Intake Status: Off
Cam Adj Intake B1 (act): -5.5 deg

Group 092
Engine Speed: 800 /min
Engine Load: 5.1%
Cam Adj Intake Status: Off
Cam Adj Intake B2 (act): 0.0 deg KW

Anyhow, I decided to start taking everything apart to see if I can see physically whats wrong, here are some pictures so far :-

Are you going to do the work yourself?

gpfwestie · Jul 24, 2016

Ruhel said:
Are you going to do the work yourself?

That's the plan yes, I am hoping once I have the variator / cam guides / actuator out I can work out what's broken and replace it.

First I would like to check the cam timing on that bank (I have no idea how to do this however).

Ruhel · Jul 24, 2016

gpfwestie said:
That's the plan yes, I am hoping once I have the variator / cam guides / actuator out I can work out what's broken and replace it.
First I would like to check the cam timing on that bank (I have no idea how to do this however).

Hats off to you. How will you get the engine out? All the best man.

gpfwestie · Jul 24, 2016

Shouldn't need to take the engine out, I can get all that lot out by removing the cam cover on the back of the engine. I'm following this guys video :-

gpfwestie · Jul 26, 2016

So I am immediately stuck removing the cam cover from the rear of the engine. The stills video I now realise is for the other bank (left hand bank).

The problem is there are two steel coolant pipes completely concealing the hex bolts you need to remove to get the cam cover off, see pictures.

Does anyone know how to get the thing removed ? it's bolted to the head somewhere.

gpfwestie · Jul 27, 2016

I found the picture from the workshop manual, looks like there's two bolts. The diagram doesn't show the exhaust header and chassis rail which sit immediately below it.

Of course Audi have used Torx fittings, and there's not enough room for my 3/8 Ratchet plus Torx bit to fit in. WTF not use a bolt - you know, the type you can get a spanner on. Thanks a lot VW, really thanks a lot.

Anyway, I have ordered a 1/4 Torx 30 to see if I can get a 1/4 Ratchet in there. If not, my second plan of attack is a set of snapon right angled screwdriver ratchet things.

QuattroCalum · Jul 27, 2016

You have to remember the engines are built separate from the car so there's no consideration for the home mechanics at all, everything that they do regarding building the engine has no issues with accessibility. Having said that there's always a way round these problems, would removing the engine mount on that side and jacking it up give you any more clearance/access to these torx bolts? Do you have any ball ended Torx keys like these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wera-0735...350833?hash=item1ea1aae6b1:g:FTMAAOSwu4BVrlpw

mattmanwrx · Jul 27, 2016

QuattroCalum said:
You have to remember the engines are built separate from the car.....

While this is true, it's somewhat untrue. The s4 v8 was a redesign of the 4.2 used in the s8. The normal s8 engine wouldn't fit in the a4, so the engine was resigned for the car. Hence why the timing chains are at the back, as it was the only place to put them to get the engine in. Then the 4.2 fsi engine was produced and used in s4 b7 s5 etc.

The engine kinda was designed for the car, in this case. However, there is still no consideration for the home mechanic.

QuattroCalum · Jul 27, 2016

I didn't mean it wasn't designed for the car, but that it was never designed to be worked on in the car, it's such a big job that it's considered easier to take the engine out, I hope you manage to get it done though, best of luck to you mate.

mattmanwrx · Jul 27, 2016

Yeah I know what you meant. Just thought id put in as in this instance the engine was designed or the car, whereas it usually isn't.

I like the ford rs200. The car was designed for the engine!!

Anyways, I also wish luck to the OP. hope it you can get it done!!

gpfwestie · Jul 27, 2016

I'm dead close to getting that bolt out, I just need the correct tool and I'm there. Probably one of those Torx allen style keys will be perfect (I don't own a set, so will have to order one). If not, the engine mount removal plus jack up engine suggestion will be the other option.

Here is the 1/8" Torx actually in the bolt - but with no room for the ratchet ... so close !!

And this is the length with extension, so a smaller extension / longer socket / Torx allen should get me there.

I took the time to drain the coolant anyway, as clearly that hose has to come off. It's a slow old job, but I am determined it can be done without removing the engine.

QuattroCalum · Jul 28, 2016

A little determination goes a long way, best of luck to you. The pic, that's right where the air box sits isn't it. Might be better to remove the engine mount and lower that side, I think you can get at it better that way, going up will give you even less room and a tighter angle.

gpfwestie · Jul 30, 2016

Another day, another problem getting the Audi apart.

Got a package delivered and opened it to find an 1 1/2" extenstion bar and low profile T30 Torx. I reckon I can mix and much pretty much every combination of lengths now.

Got it on, and started trying to undo it with my 1/8 ratchet, but it wasn't budging. I switched over to a 1/8 breaker bar and rounded off the torx bolt. Great.

So, obviously with the cramped conditions, I couldn't get an extractor in, or a welder, so that pretty much decided my next step - angle grinder (actually hacksaw blade, with a gaffer tape handle. Too tight for angle grinder, not enough reach on a dremel).

You can't really see that well, but the cut closest the camera was an attempt to remove the spot welds (failed) the cut further from the camera is to get the hard coolant hose off the block. That second cut was only possible with a hacksaw blade.

It now moves around freely, but I've got the totally rusted up flexible hose connectors at each end to free up yet.

Not sure if I'll weld it all back together once it's of the car, or just get a replacement part.

(edit - obviously I did have something covering the cam's at the time, so hopefully no swarf ended up in there).

gpfwestie · Aug 7, 2016

Got some more time on the car, removed the hose connectors from the front of the car pretty easily, then set to work on the ones between the head and the firewall.

First on was on the smaller water pipe, and I had to hacksaw through the hose crimp, see pic below.

Which meant I could finally remove the smaller solid hose Hurrah !!

Now the larger hose clamp looks a bit tricky, it's one of those crimp to release type ones. I normally do these with a pair of pliers, but this one is oriented such that I can't fit pliers in there. There's probably some tool which would make this much easier.

QuattroCalum · Aug 7, 2016

Try a flat blade screwdriver in the middle of the crimped part turn left and right in succession then finally lever apart.

B6 S4 Hesitation and Camshaft Position Sensor errors

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