Highest mileage S3? RIP?

John-H

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My trusty 2000 Audi S3 Quattro which I bought in 2009 with ~120,000 miles on the clock, I've since taken up to 290,500 miles on the original engine. I've run it on fully synthetic ester based oil which is how the engine has lasted along with most miles being motorway. I drive it like it's meant to be driven though and it pulls like it ever did. Is this the highest mileage?

Within a year of acquiring the vehicle I called upon the Audi paintwork warranty to remove some bubbling along the roof rail channels and doors (a common issue). This was done by an Audi's approved body shop and put the vehicle in a showroom standard again.

The vehicle has Recaro blue Alcantara electric seats. I spent a long time looking for a car with these seats as I didn't want full leather.

Bushes have been replaced to tighten up the handling, all wheel bearings replaced etc ... in fact it's a bit like Trigger's broom in that it's had so many items replaced with all the items you might expect to wear out only at high mileage - the heater blower motor for example - it runs all the time and brushes slowly wear. It drives like a new broom!

Some surprising things have failed such as the downpipe flexible coupling and a fatigue fracture on the rear exhaust box chassis mounting. All fixed and won't be happening again.

Other normal stuff that fails at lower mileage has all been changed - a recent set of new H coil packs for example, N75. I had to replace the aircon clutch but the original compressor still chills nicely. Everything working fine - it's a joy to drive.

It hit a raised manhole and holed the sump and broke a gearbox mount a while back (posted here). All claimed for and sorted with a replacement box from a low mileage TT.

I was trying to get it to 300,000 miles and write a magazine feature in Audi Driver. It was a personal challenge to get it there. I was only one service away from achieving this milestone when this happened:

IMG 20160112 WA0003


Not my fault as someone went into the back of me but there's an estimated £5,500 worth of damage. The boot floor isn't bent and damage seems to be the rear quarter panel, slam plate, bumper, light of course, bent trailing arm and tailgate.

The third party insurers offered to look after the claim but they are going off Glass's guide which values the car at £1,650. I recon to get one as looked after as mine with so much of it in far better condition than the recorded mileage would suggest would cost me at least double. I've shown them the same year of manufacture S3s in Auto Trader but I can't find any with 300k miles on the clock. I saw a 1999 S3 with 123,000 on the clock for £3,595 for example . The insurance seems to think mileage needs to be matched rather than condition and because they can't find one at 300k miles they use the Glass's guide calculator to my disadvantage.

I'm left, through no fault of my own, worse off despite being entitled in law to be put back into the position I was in before the accident. Yet to get another S3 in similar condition I'm going to have to fork out. That doesn't seem fair.
 
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totally gutted for you mate, such a shame and an even bigger shame the value the insurers never value cars properly
 
Mines just hit 200k, but it sounds like yours was in a better condition.
 
Argh! Nooo! That really sucks. I'm sure I've read about someone twisting an insurer's arm when valuing these cars...someone pipe up? Suspect the mileage will be the killer though, wrongly.

Same John-H from TTF I presume? Hello :)
 
Gutted for you mate, it looked a well looked after example! 8L prices seems to be rising slightly of late, as there are so few good ones about for sale. Those that aren't worth anything get broken up for spares, so less of these about on the roads also.
 
Mines a minter just like yours and I was considering selling but I've decided to keep it. I'm on 175k and if I was to advertise mine with the love, care and full history it has I would take no less than £4k. People will laugh at that but unfortunately for some stupid reason mileage is what sets a value for a car and if it's cared for and cherished and had everything fixed or replaced when it's broken why should it not be worth that? It's a shame that you're being punished in the same way and I really feel for you. Could you take some snaps of yours from the front and get someone to advertise it for sale on Auto trader (blank out the plate) and put a similar mileage on and show that to the insurance company??
 
Really feel for you buddy. Have you got a price to get it fixed if you were to buy it back? Insurance repair costs are seriously over the top - they replace new and don't even seek to mend. Might be worth asking. My Leon Cupra which I had from 2002 was involved in an accident 15 months ago which the insurers quoted £2.2k to repair, and it cost me a third of that to get it all done, and the work was equally as good as the insurers would have been.

Might be worth checking - it was my chat with the insurers assessor who said it would cost much less to get it on the road that their quote and said I would be daft not to buy it back. They recommended a local garage (who was brilliant) who gave me a quote quickly. If you could get the work done for say 2-2.5k, and up the price they give you a little, could you buy back and fix?

http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=411640
 
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even scrap value these are worth £650 - from "car take back" I am sure the insurance company would sell if back for a hundred or two.
 
Aw that's sickening, especially as it wasn't your fault. Such a shame that the insurers aren't helping out. Even meeting you halfway.

I really hate to suggest this, but would you consider a liability claim against the other driver? At least it would help you recoup your loss.
 
Good on you for going so long in the motor!

Gutted that it's path now lay somewhere else... :sadlike:
 
I'm absolutely gutted just to hear about this! sucks that the insurance are screwing you over due to the mileage. If it's well looked after with all the paperwork intact then mileage shouldn't make much of a difference to anyone in the know. Unfortunately people that dont know their stuff about cars still see a car as worthless once it hits 100k
 
For everyone saying that the car is worth much more than that, put your money where your mouth is.

Would you pay anymore than £1650 for a 300,000 mile 16 year old S3, no matter how well maintained?

Not being harsh, it is a ****** situation for you mate. I'd just be realistic about its value.
 
For everyone saying that the car is worth much more than that, put your money where your mouth is.

Would you pay anymore than £1650 for a 300,000 mile 16 year old S3, no matter how well maintained?

Not being harsh, it is a ****** situation for you mate. I'd just be realistic about its value.

No I wouldn't, but IMO (and admittedly the insurers disagree) that's the wrong way to look at it. It's not about how much the car could have been sold for, it's about how much it would cost you to get a car in equivalent condition. An S3 costing £1650 is going to be an absolute wreck, and this wasn't.
 
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I thought some insurance companies, promised to replace like for like, cant you ask them to bring an S3 to your house, to compare?
a timing belt change and clutch replacement is over £1K
 
Are they not replacing like for like though? The car is worth £1650 in their opinion on the current market because regardless of what you have spent on it, no-one is going to pay more for a car with them kind of figures on it.

I value my 79,000 mile S3 at £4000. I've spent around £1500 on it maintaining it recently.

Its still only worth £4000. Not £5500.

The best thing the OP can do is refuse the amount, they are open to negotiation. Keep haggling with them.
 
This is an interesting point. I'm not contacted to the third party insurer in any way so do not have to follow their opinion or their policy or rules.

There is a common law tort of negligence which entitles the injured party to claim for recompense to be put back into the same situation before the damage occurred.

There are no S3s on the market to my knowledge in good condition and in full working order with 300k miles on the clock. They were probably all scraped at 200k at most as far as I know. The nearest example vehicle that matches the same vehicle condition, fit and function is another S3 of lower mileage.

Glass's guide uses a mathematical "model" to predict vehicle condition according to mileage. As a general prediction of vehicle condition it's useful but clearly because it's a general model it does not define actual vehicle condition. An enthusiast will spend more keeping their pride and joy in good condition or modify the car to a high spec and hence enthusiasts cars can command a market value from other enthusiasts (the actual market) way above Glass's guide. I've seen some S3s of the same year on the market for £8k for example.

In fact the insurance used what they call a three way validation also using CAP model and another to predict value. The CAP model only goes up to 150k miles which values at£2,450 also way below actual market value. The fact that the model only predicts up to 150k miles indicates the confidence of accuracy beyond. Clearly the models run out of steam at high miles and are inaccurate especially for enthusiast vehicles. Real condition is indicated by the actual condition of the actual vehicle, not some theoretical algorithm.

I would argue that the insurance should compensate to the closest match replacement. That would be fair as that is what is available for me to buy.

I had no intention to sell the vehicle and buy another one in the same condition on a lower mileage - why should I? Why should I have to be forced to do so and fork out extra money through no fault of my own? I am entitled to be compensated for what's called differential loss in such a case.

I'd argue that the guides are inaccurate in this case and the insurance actually take that point. They asked me to provide examples of similar vehicles but I can't because there aren't any at 300k miles, only up to half that at most that I can find and have provided. Instead of saying Ok, that will do, this accident wan't your fault we'll pay you the closest match they instead stick to the inaccurate models and minimise their loss rather than mine - but I'm the injured party
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Can't disagree with anything you've wrote there. They should compensate you to the closest match replacement, the point I was making was don't be expecting a £4K payout for a £2K car.

Its a crap situation and I really do feel for you. The fact that it never quite made the 300,000 miles is a double kick in the pods, that sort of thing would annoy me!

Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.
 
These are borderline classic - so you can get a gap insurance or guaranteed valuation insurance, but obviously doesn't help your present situation.
 
Sorry I've not replied until now but things have been busy and I forgot my password.

I managed to beat the insurance up a bit but only because one of their models for estimated value at 150k miles was below market example prices, so they ratio'd up the Glass's guide estimate for 300k miles by the same shortfall presuming that would also be too low. It still means I'm going to have to fork out for a replacement S3 as there are no 300k examples for me to buy.

I had a look at the car and took some pictures to try and get some alternative repair estimates. Here's a better shot of the damage.

20160201 151245a


There's a kink above the rear window

20160201 151759a



The boot floor is intact with no kinks in the chassis rail and the exhaust is Ok - the trim is bowed out because the light area is pushed in above.

20160201 151332a


The trim at the back seat is out of line.

20160201 151420a



Here's why the rear wheel was way out of line - snapped at the handbrake cable entry - the wheel took a lot of the impact

20160201 151513a



The front of the trailing arm had impacted the carrier which may be damaged higher up but the floor is fine it appears.

20160201 151523a


The rest of the suspension looks undamaged with the tie bars straight. Why the insurance engineers report said they need replacing on both sides of the car I don't know - along with a lot of other mystery items.

The passenger door gap has been reduced compared to the driver's door but opens and shuts without problem. The panel has obviously shifted. The central locking no longer works at all - possibly a blown fuse. The passenger seat seems not to lock upright any more so may have been damaged. Lucky my daughter wasn't hurt too much but it was a big jolt.

I asked a recommended independent repairer who is used to repairing such cars to quote for pulling out the rear quarter and straightening - he reckoned that would be cheaper than replacing the part with all the accompanying rust proofing etc as the panel is about £500 alone. He reckoned much of the worse kinks would disappear when pulled and then dollies and some filler would sort the rest. A replacement arm I could get for £50 second hand but the tie bar bushes may need changing to match the other side. So not an insurance standard repair but something that would look fine and last.

Unfortunately the cost still comes in at about what I could possibly buy a cheaper end 150k mile S3 for and that's before I add the cost of the suspension parts and anything else that's discovered broken and pay the insurance for the salvage value. It's looking as if it's not going to be worth the effort and risk of extra costs mounting unfortunately. Sad.
 
Looking at the damage and the mileage, I think it's time to move on buddy. My smashed example only has 64k miles on it, and it's still in my garage all smashed up! I think I've decided to break it in the last week myself, after umming and ahhing to repair it for the last 15 months!!

It's very sad, I feel your pain! :(
 
Thanks for the sympathy and I've been there with the back burner job..... with an old RS2000 custom on an Irish plate which I took off the road to repair due to stress cracks in the body from the rally spec suspension and a faulty oil control ring which I fixed.

Ten years later .... when it looked like the rusty Titanic on the sea bed and covered in cobwebs and resident mice, I decided I was never going to get round to fixing it and sold it to a dealer in Scotland to free up the garage space.

Strangely enough the day I got it out (a job in itself as the starter, clutch and discs all needed feeing off from rust - but it started off a cheap battery with help from my arc welder), some guy selling uPVC cladding turned up and said, "Is that an RS2000? How much do you want for it?" I told him it was already sold for £1,200 to a guy in Scotland who is coming today with an A frame. "I'll give you £1,500 for it!" he said instantly. "I'll take it off you for cash". "How much will you take for it?" ... It took me ages to get rid of him.

The guy from Scotland turned up and towed it back. He sent me a couple of pictures during the restore. He spent a couple of years doing it up and then selling it on back to someone in Ireland. I found that out because the DVLA suddenly started chasing me for 12 years of road tax! :sadlike:

I convinced them it had been off the road in the end - but beware of the consequences of the job on the back burner... :blush:
 
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Well it was in 2005 when I sold it. Maybe if I'd kept it for another 10 years I could have sold it for more. The 80s is when I had it on the road. Seems like only yesterday :racer:
 
Sorry I've not replied until now but things have been busy and I forgot my password.

I managed to beat the insurance up a bit but only because one of their models for estimated value at 150k miles was below market example prices, so they ratio'd up the Glass's guide estimate for 300k miles by the same shortfall presuming that would also be too low. It still means I'm going to have to fork out for a replacement S3 as there are no 300k examples for me to buy.

I had a look at the car and took some pictures to try and get some alternative repair estimates. Here's a better shot of the damage.

View attachment 79786

There's a kink above the rear window

View attachment 79797


The boot floor is intact with no kinks in the chassis rail and the exhaust is Ok - the trim is bowed out because the light area is pushed in above.

View attachment 79787

The trim at the back seat is out of line.

View attachment 79788


Here's why the rear wheel was way out of line - snapped at the handbrake cable entry - the wheel took a lot of the impact

View attachment 79789


The front of the trailing arm had impacted the carrier which may be damaged higher up but the floor is fine it appears.

View attachment 79790

The rest of the suspension looks undamaged with the tie bars straight. Why the insurance engineers report said they need replacing on both sides of the car I don't know - along with a lot of other mystery items.

The passenger door gap has been reduced compared to the driver's door but opens and shuts without problem. The panel has obviously shifted. The central locking no longer works at all - possibly a blown fuse. The passenger seat seems not to lock upright any more so may have been damaged. Lucky my daughter wasn't hurt too much but it was a big jolt.

I asked a recommended independent repairer who is used to repairing such cars to quote for pulling out the rear quarter and straightening - he reckoned that would be cheaper than replacing the part with all the accompanying rust proofing etc as the panel is about £500 alone. He reckoned much of the worse kinks would disappear when pulled and then dollies and some filler would sort the rest. A replacement arm I could get for £50 second hand but the tie bar bushes may need changing to match the other side. So not an insurance standard repair but something that would look fine and last.

Unfortunately the cost still comes in at about what I could possibly buy a cheaper end 150k mile S3 for and that's before I add the cost of the suspension parts and anything else that's discovered broken and pay the insurance for the salvage value. It's looking as if it's not going to be worth the effort and risk of extra costs mounting unfortunately. Sad.
Will take a miracle to pull that rear 1/4 panel out! The guy must be good!
 
I feel this pain buddy - although after 2-3 months of constant discussions last year with the insurers I managed to get a decent pay out for my 2000 pre facelift 215,000 miler S3. (which I thought was pretty damn high, but quiet the opposite for me....'being driven' to me does not include motorway driving ;) )

I did obviously get offers like you were receiving initially but that soon doubled - if not nearly trebled by the end of it.

Thing is though is that a lot of my parts had been replaced with more expense parts which were all insured and had been specified.

My S3 was most definitely referred to as Triggers broom as it would be easier for me to tell you what was still on the car from factory!

I must have had practically everything go wrong with the car....

However, over my 7 years of ownership I kept EVERY receipt for the parts and labour- and that's what helped my case and my final payout.

They obviously gave the same speech about the mileage of the car but I categorically kept telling them that the mileage on the car is not a full representative of the typical wear/tear and I proved this by sending them 100s or receipts for parts and labour!

The nail in the coffin though was when the assessor came out and he asked what mileage the car was on..... I asked him to guess and he said around 80,000!! He couldn't believe when I said near 215k.

As mentioned above I ended up with a payout I was happy with, even after my excess and purchasing the vehicle back was removed. I decided it was time to move on though to something else....still German but a lack for 4 rings :sorrow:
 
Well it was in 2005 when I sold it. Maybe if I'd kept it for another 10 years I could have sold it for more. The 80s is when I had it on the road. Seems like only yesterday :racer:

I had a beige T Reg Escort Mark 2 with a 1300 lump instead of the 1100 my first car at £200 in 1988, my mates had 2 Litre Cortina and a Morris Marina 1600 - oh the days cruising round Bedford one way streets and performing L shape wheel drifting all together round the same roundabouts. excellent to park up down the tracks too - before dogging was a thing of course. oh those days, I sold it for a tenner.

Oh and please ignore my original comment about repairing your car (its surely too badly broken) - if it was me - I would still buy it back off the insurance for 80-100 quid probably and break it eg the engine components - then sell the scrap metal.
 

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