VED for 2017

Yeah I see that, but not really valid due to the first year, I mean there's a whopping difference of 2 grand based on emissions.
 
Tony1982 said:
. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there are cars with lower emissions priced over 40k than some cars priced under 40k, how is it fair if in that situation the guy with the more eco friendly but more expensive car should pay more road tax?! It's ridiculous!
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I don't think the £40K threshold has anything to do with emissions its simply an "expensive" car tax. So the government can say its taking more tax from the rich than the poor
 
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It's the company car drivers that will still drive the CO2 levels down. 0 emissions equals an electric car!

The company car CO2 threshold for tax purposes means you are always looking for the lowest CO2 and the lowest OTR cost of the car. This equals your Benefit in Kind tax liability. And then like leasing a car you can work out much you want to pay HMRC!

I think it will be based on the OTR price of the car excluding options. Otherwise it will be to complicated to implement.
So if it does become law there will be quite a few cars priced at £39,999.99!
 
A huge chunk of the country can not afford or justify an 40k car. I personally don't disagree with the tax on cars of that value. It's the tax on the first 5 years I don't really agree with.
 
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Yep.

An Astra can be bought for £14k, a £40k car is around 3 times the cost of the Astra.

The current system of VED is highly regressive.

Could be worse. You could be in Singapore. Now, that is a truly eye watering car tax system.
 
h5djr said:
Personally I'm not bothered about the increase in VED providing they stick to what was said in the Budget that the money will be 'ring fenced' to go to road costs and road improvements. The was the original reason for the Road Fund Licence in the first place but over the years the money raised has been used for all sorts of other purposes and not put in to our road system.

I certainly agree the cars like the e-tron's should pay the same £140 per year as other vehicles. The VED is supposed to be about road use and not CO2. By all means charge an initially lower amount for less CO2 but the annual amount should be the same for all cars. After all the e-tron's still get a £5,000 tax-payer fund discount. All vehicles create CO2 emissions, whether it's at the exhaust pipe or the power station.
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No it doesn't. My electricity supply at home is on a 100% renewables plan.
 
I think the flat rate is a good idea, my better half currently drives a (forgive me) Polo Bluegt with the ACT engine. It costs just £20 to tax it, when you consider that this equates to just 4 journeys on the Birmingham toll road then I think paying £20 for 8000 miles a year isn't enough.
If the government is going to ring fence VED money for the maintenance & upkeep of our roads we should all be responsible & pay our bit, as currently some of our roads are in a shocking state.
Not sure about the 40k tax, think we can all speculate but until the details are published we won't know.
Karl.
 
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cemerson said:
No it doesn't. My electricity supply at home is on a 100% renewables plan.
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No wishing to get in to an argument about green energy but it is impossible for any company to GUARANTEE that all the electricity provided to any point in the country is produced entirely from renewable sources. All points of use are connected to the National Grid which is supplied with electricity from a number of sources. Today for example 39% is coming from gas powered power stations, 23.6% from Nuclear, 19.3% from coal and 4% from Wind. We are also importing 6.14% from France and 3.10% from Holland plus a few other minor sources. All this electricity is fed in to the National Grid from where it is fed to users.

Ecoelectricty may well be able to claim it's generates more power by renewables over say a 12 month period than it's customers use but that is not the same as saying all their customers only use electricity generated in this way. For them to be able to say that they would have to lay a completely new set of cables to the customers houses.
 
K4RL said:
I think the flat rate is a good idea, my better half currently drives a (forgive me) Polo Bluegt with the ACT engine. It costs just £20 to tax it, when you consider that this equates to just 4 journeys on the Birmingham toll road then I think paying £20 for 8000 miles a year isn't enough.
If the government is going to ring fence VED money for the maintenance & upkeep of our roads we should all be responsible & pay our bit, as currently some of our roads are in a shocking state.
Not sure about the 40k tax, think we can all speculate but until the details are published we won't know.
Karl.
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My wife currently drives an Audi A1 1.6TDI and pays no VED at all. As you say, providing the system goes back to being 'ring-fenced' for the maintenance, upkeep and improvements to our road network all cars should pay a reasonable contribution.
 
Simple ,we don't need VED now the mot is online....
Just increase the duty in fuel. Those that us the roads more pay more....simple
 
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musicegbdf said:
Simple ,we don't need VED now the mot is online....
Just increase the duty in fuel. Those that us the roads more pay more....simple
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A sensible suggestion but unfortunately if people saw petrol jump to £2/L (for example) the drop in VED for them would be irrelevant as they just wouldn't be able to see past that headline figure.

It's the same problem with tax and NI. If they dropped NI but increased basic rate tax to 32% people wouldn't be worse off but they'd think they were...
 
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Also if it was just added to the fuel tax it would probably just get lost into normal taxation where as they have said the 'new' VED would be 'ring-fenced' for road improvements.
 
Mmm a politicians promise....
Like most people think NI is for the health service...
The original reasons against are no more with the new technology...
 
I'd add that:

1. Ring fencing the new money doesn't stop the government re-assigning the current money allocated to road through smoke and mirrors so it might not be all extra income for roads generally. Also even though the new scheme is coming in April 2017 its not being spent on new road projects until 2020-21. However, I'm all for linking VED to new/strategic road schemes which is what they appear to be saying. Alternative would be to scrap VED and just increase fuel duty which would be political suicide, if fairer on a roads usage basis (at least for cars)

2. Hybrid and full electric vehicles still do have their part to play in reducing emissions in town centres regardless of where the electricty is generated.. Plus in particular hybrids allow the concept of EV vehicles to be slowly rolled out to the general public so that fully EV vehicles that follow on in the coming decades will not seem so alien.
 
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Daveotto said:
No, Not passed yet

The Porsche is just a dream at moment, not got the S3 yet.....LOl................ but base list (inc VAT) is around £45K so got about £10K of options to play with (in my dreams) but they would go fast as a steering wheel is an optional extra in a Porsche!!!!!
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Never spec'd one up to be fair but any car I've ever looked at needs a load of options ticking
 
h5djr said:
My wife currently drives an Audi A1 1.6TDI and pays no VED at all. As you say, providing the system goes back to being 'ring-fenced' for the maintenance, upkeep and improvements to our road network all cars should pay a reasonable contribution.
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My soon to be wife has the same car and is pretty gutted under the new scheme if she had a new one would be £140 per year when it's £0 now.

Government has realised its dropped a ****** with low emissions cars, this day was bound to come.
 
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The problem with adding duty to fuel apart from the political suicide would be how would those people on motability and other such schemes get the normal tax payer to pay for their VED as well as their nice brand new car every few years? Does the tax payer now pay for their fuel too? Where does that stop with regards to them justifying any large mileage they may have to carry out?

Don't get me wrong, some people need these cars but the family halfway down the road who spend all their time sitting on their front step getting drunk on a Tuesday afternoon sure as hell don't need one. They move along pretty easily when they're shouting at each other. (this is a winge about new housing estates being built with affordable housing too but I digress)
 
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h5djr said:
Also if it was just added to the fuel tax it would probably just get lost into normal taxation where as they have said the 'new' VED would be 'ring-fenced' for road improvements.
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I'll be shocked if the ring fencing actually happens in anything but name. I doubt it will make any difference to the state of the roads in real terms; after all the government will look at it as, "we managed without ring fenced VED for 80 years, why start now?"
 
Once upon a time, it was known as the Road Fund Licence/Tax, with its proceeds going entirely onto roads.

However that was stopped (with parallels drawn by using the alcohol and building pubs analogy) and VED was born, and the proceeds going into general taxation.

This is an attempt to once again link the VED and roads building and maintenance.
 
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h5djr said:
No wishing to get in to an argument about green energy but it is impossible for any company to GUARANTEE that all the electricity provided to any point in the country is produced entirely from renewable sources. All points of use are connected to the National Grid which is supplied with electricity from a number of sources. Today for example 39% is coming from gas powered power stations, 23.6% from Nuclear, 19.3% from coal and 4% from Wind. We are also importing 6.14% from France and 3.10% from Holland plus a few other minor sources. All this electricity is fed in to the National Grid from where it is fed to users.

Ecoelectricty may well be able to claim it's generates more power by renewables over say a 12 month period than it's customers use but that is not the same as saying all their customers only use electricity generated in this way. For them to be able to say that they would have to lay a completely new set of cables to the customers houses.
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Of course. I do understand how the national grid works! But at the end of the day, the end result is the same.
 
I cry "foul" with the 100% renewable energy tariff too :p

If you've ever switched on a kettle at a peak moment, or used electricity during a moment of demand, you certainly have called upon the services of Dinorwig.

Hydro power it may be, but in order for it to "replenish" the upper reservoir, energy from the "base" coal and nuclear power stations are used to pump the water back up ;)
 
Yes, but like I said above - the end results are the same. The same amount of power would be generated by each source on that day than if you had directly used renewable energy.

There is also a growing trend of people having their own windmills or solar panels that they mostly change their car off anyway.
 
But the key is that surely the £8 of electric used to charge a electric car ( that has zero emissions ) is better then the environment then using X amount of litres of fuel to drive the same miles.
 
Not really. It isn't zero emissions (in the case of fossil fuel), nor lossless (in the case of all generation and transmission), if you follow the trail.

You're just shifting the emissions and un-environmentally friendly stuff from the tail pipe, to further up the chain.

Then you start getting into discussions about how un-environmentally friendly PV's (Photovoltaics) really are, and whole-cycle effects of renewables.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think
 
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I was under the impression it will be on actual price paid, plus options.
If it is based on list price what happened to price fixing rules? It's effectively RRP - which was outlawed.

As for it being used to pay for road improvements. ...lol. That only starts in 2021 (IIRC) even though the increase comes into effect in 2017.
 
veeeight said:
Not really. It isn't zero emissions (in the case of fossil fuel), nor lossless (in the case of all generation and transmission), if you follow the trail.

You're just shifting the emissions and un-environmentally friendly stuff from the tail pipe, to further up the chain.

Then you start getting into discussions about how un-environmentally friendly PV's (Photovoltaics) really are, and whole-cycle effects of renewables.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think
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But moving it up the chain is surely good if your getting more miles for less fossil fuels.

And I'm fairly sure I read that Tesla have vowed to run their Supercharger network off renewable energy only.
 
Bristle Hound said:
Yeh I know buddy. It was his 'inspiration' that I went a searching ;) lol
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Get one BH. It will fit so well in to your life and you will save a packet. We use it for all those little trips in to town, short commutes etc. £1.44 for a full charge at home = 90 miles of use.

You can not help but smile when you drive the ZOE - so relaxing and fun too believe it or not.

Go test drive one and you will see what I mean ;)
 
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The Challinor said:
But moving it up the chain is surely good if your getting more miles for less fossil fuels.

And I'm fairly sure I read that Tesla have vowed to run their Supercharger network off renewable energy only.
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But as has already been said, unless Telsa are prepared to lay a complete new grid and distribution system in the UK the cannot ensure that all their charging points will be supplied with electricity from renewable sources.

I recently emailed Ecotricty to ask, if I signed up with them as my electricity supplier, could they guarantee that all the electricity they supplied to my house would be from renewable sources and this is the reply I got...

"Electricity is owned by your electricity supplier, however, National Grid is responsible for this electricity whilst it is being transported. Ecotricity supplies green electricity to its customers however, the green electricity is stored in the same transmission system and runs through the same overhead lines as all other energy. Therefore, we cannot guarantee that the electricity which is transported to your home is 100% green".

I quite sure the answer from Telsa would be the same.
 
I agree with @The Challinor, it's branding but it's not about laying new infustructure etc it's the fact that tesla's initiatives like the "gigafactory" leaves them in a carbon nuteral position. So they arnt adding more to the environment. Truly green energy is very far off.
 
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Owning an electric car I can say the biggest "issue" is the infrastructure. I'm lucky as where I live (even though it's rural) I have access to a fair few rapid / fast chargers but it's worrying how often they are either out of service or flatly refuse to recognise the RIFD card. When you need a charge the last thing on your mind is if the electricity is going to be 100% renewables!

Seriously considering a Golf GTE / Passat GTE to replace my company car. £100 a month cheaper than a 320d / Class diesel on the old tax. I suspect however in time that difference will disappear as more people get them and tax man gets wise.....
 
Shhhh don't mention the G word, else it'll be another thread ruined :p
 
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