VED for 2017

taurus

taurus

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I suppose this was inevitable - car tax can't keep going down for new cars without the money rolling in to the government. It makes sense.

What it does mean, however, is even a fully-loaded S3 could be over the £40,000 mark and this means there's an extra £1,550 spread over 5 years for breaking that magic number. Not to mention a £500 first year charge. Yearly VED does drop to £140, but that's not too much of a change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33447106

_84160222_ved_bands_gra624.png


So, I wonder if Audi will have to be clever about their optional extras? Seems a bit harsh that because you want some luxuries over and above the stock model that you get clobbered so much. I wonder how the VED is worked out - as that will mean either Audi have to shoehorn more in to the stock model, make new more affordable packs, or offer huge discounts but have an annual service of £500 in some form of loan.

Of course, this means nowt to us today, but when the 2017 cars come out and we all start to drool, we might have to drop the B&O to keep the Interior Lighting Pack!

;-)
 
Will have to think again about my Porsche Macan S as a replacement for my still to be received S3!!!!!!!!!
 
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I think that's shocking. How they can add such a fee because of the list price is crazy, especially when in truth £40k list price is not that huge anymore. I think we now accept the principle of a higher year 1 rate effectively applied to the OTR for the top end cars emissions wise, but to put a burden like that on the first 5 years of ownership (effectively the entire ownership in many cases) is plain crazy. The flat yearly rate is just lazy, that is still where there should be some differentiation, if only to make motoring costs more bearable at the "entry level" but probably proves that they can't be bothered actually finding out which cars are worse for the environment so they stick with the flawed CO2 index.
 
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sunscreemer said:
I think that's shocking. How they can add such a fee because of the list price is crazy, especially when in truth £40k list price is not that huge anymore. I think we now accept the principle of a higher year 1 rate effectively applied to the OTR for the top end cars emissions wise, but to put a burden like that on the first 5 years of ownership (effectively the entire ownership in many cases) is plain crazy. The flat yearly rate is just lazy, that is still where there should be some differentiation, if only to make motoring costs more bearable at the "entry level" but probably proves that they can't be bothered actually finding out which cars are worse for the environment so they stick with the flawed CO2 index.
Click to expand...

In effect its a tax on high earners, I am sure there will be a lot of lobbying from the premium car makers and would not be surprised if the " 5 year premium" gets dropped or forgotten about as in the grander scheme of things it does not add more than a few million to government coffers and destabilizes the whole high end car market
 
And, let's not forget, that there is approximately 650g of CO2 per kWh of generated electricity in the UK (average). So, for every full charge of an eGolf (24kWh), 15.6kg of CO2 is pumped in to the atmosphere. The acclaimed range of the eGolf is ~80 miles, so that's 121g/km. Certainly not zero!

I digress, of course, as producing 98 RON takes quite a bit of energy too, but it is frustrating how a car can be claimed as being zero emissions when a lot of emissions are created to power it.
 
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sam_sykes said:
I suppose this was inevitable - car tax can't keep going down for new cars without the money rolling in to the government. It makes sense.

What it does mean, however, is even a fully-loaded S3 could be over the £40,000 mark and this means there's an extra £1,550 spread over 5 years for breaking that magic number. Not to mention a £500 first year charge. Yearly VED does drop to £140, but that's not too much of a change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33447106

_84160222_ved_bands_gra624.png


So, I wonder if Audi will have to be clever about their optional extras? Seems a bit harsh that because you want some luxuries over and above the stock model that you get clobbered so much. I wonder how the VED is worked out - as that will mean either Audi have to shoehorn more in to the stock model, make new more affordable packs, or offer huge discounts but have an annual service of £500 in some form of loan.

Of course, this means nowt to us today, but when the 2017 cars come out and we all start to drool, we might have to drop the B&O to keep the Interior Lighting Pack!

;-)
Click to expand...

I'd like to know how list price will be defined in Law for this. Is list price inclusive of VAT ..... or is list price the amount on which VAT is calculated. What about if you dont pay the full list price will it be calculated at the discounted price you manged to gain like VAT is?
 
Minion Bob! said:
I'd like to know how list price will be defined in Law for this. Is list price inclusive of VAT ..... or is list price the amount on which VAT is calculated. What about if you dont pay the full list price will it be calculated at the discounted price you manged to gain like VAT is?
Click to expand...

Does not seem to have been thought through does it, no surprise there....

When the VAT rate changed form 15 to 20% the VAT rate was charged at point of sale against the list price, I am sure my OTR costs such as delivery did not increase, but not got the paperwork to check now. So by the same logic the new "tax" should be based on list price before any VAT and not include any OTR costs,

At the time the dealer I was buying my 8P 1.4TFSI from tried to stuff me for the extra 5% despite our written agreement, but that is another story
 
Minion Bob! said:
I'd like to know how list price will be defined in Law for this. Is list price inclusive of VAT ..... or is list price the amount on which VAT is calculated. What about if you dont pay the full list price will it be calculated at the discounted price you manged to gain like VAT is?
Click to expand...

It'll surely be the same as the 'list price' when used for calculating compay car tax benefit on a P11d. This is a well established system and does not account for discounts.
 
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Personally I'm not bothered about the increase in VED providing they stick to what was said in the Budget that the money will be 'ring fenced' to go to road costs and road improvements. The was the original reason for the Road Fund Licence in the first place but over the years the money raised has been used for all sorts of other purposes and not put in to our road system.

I certainly agree the cars like the e-tron's should pay the same £140 per year as other vehicles. The VED is supposed to be about road use and not CO2. By all means charge an initially lower amount for less CO2 but the annual amount should be the same for all cars. After all the e-tron's still get a £5,000 tax-payer fund discount. All vehicles create CO2 emissions, whether it's at the exhaust pipe or the power station.
 
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I'm relaxed at the £40k (list price or otherwise) cut off.

After all, if the average Vauxhall Astra can be bought new for £14k, a £40k car is just under 3 times the cost of that "average" car.




a3_phil said:
It'll surely be the same as the 'list price' when used for calculating compay car tax benefit on a P11d. This is a well established system and does not account for discounts.
Click to expand...


^ This
 
sam_sykes said:
I suppose this was inevitable - car tax can't keep going down for new cars without the money rolling in to the government. It makes sense.

What it does mean, however, is even a fully-loaded S3 could be over the £40,000 mark and this means there's an extra £1,550 spread over 5 years for breaking that magic number. Not to mention a £500 first year charge. Yearly VED does drop to £140, but that's not too much of a change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33447106

_84160222_ved_bands_gra624.png


So, I wonder if Audi will have to be clever about their optional extras? Seems a bit harsh that because you want some luxuries over and above the stock model that you get clobbered so much. I wonder how the VED is worked out - as that will mean either Audi have to shoehorn more in to the stock model, make new more affordable packs, or offer huge discounts but have an annual service of £500 in some form of loan.

Of course, this means nowt to us today, but when the 2017 cars come out and we all start to drool, we might have to drop the B&O to keep the Interior Lighting Pack!

;-)
Click to expand...
One word - ridiculous! :(
 
Daveotto said:
In effect its a tax on high earners, I am sure there will be a lot of lobbying from the premium car makers and would not be surprised if the " 5 year premium" gets dropped or forgotten about as in the grander scheme of things it does not add more than a few million to government coffers and destabilizes the whole high end car market
Click to expand...

You say a tax on high earners - it's a tax on people who choose to put a lot of their disposable income into a car. I earn far less than some people with far cheaper cars but i like cars. It's a terrible idea however you look at it putting a further tax based on value when you're already proportionately shelling out more in VAT. Thieving <insert expletive here>.
 
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I appreciate that it's not good for those of us who wish to buy expensive cars.

However

The current system of VED is a highly regressive tax.
Currently, those that can afford to buy a new car, pay £0
Whilst those that can only afford older cars, can pay £225 or more
 
There will suddenly be an upsurge in people buying 1year old cars to avoid the high first year VED rate probably.
 
smk82 said:
There will suddenly be an upsurge in people buying 1year old cars to avoid the high first year VED rate probably.
Click to expand...
Do you think a lot of people will want a one year old car, which may well be not to there exact spec to save a few hundred pounds in the first year VED. I suppose it's possible but in my case with a 2.0TDI-184 the CO2 is 127 and it will cost me an extra £160 for first year and an extra £30 per year after that. Personally I would much rather pay the extra £160 and get the spec that I want rather than have to have the spec someone else choose.
I suppose with the S3s it a bit more - an extra £320 for the first year but then £40 less for the rest. Not a great deal more when you consider the 30k plus price of the car in the first place.
 
The problem with cut off points they are unfair. By 2017 am sure a S3 with a few options will crack the 40k barrier.
A 40k car is not serious luxury, and why attack motorists again.
Soft target. That's why.
 
I suppose a lot will depend on the price that is used. The actual cost of your particular car or the basic price for that model. In the UK Audi's tend to come with quite a lot of options as standard and are priced accordingly. In Germany for example, you can buy a very basic A3 for a much lower price and then add whatever options you want to pay for. As always the devil will be in the detail.I said in an earlier

As I said in an earlier post I will be a lot less bothered if the VED money is 'ring-fenced' as the Government are currently saying it will be, for road improvements and not used for all sorts of other things.
 
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So if u buy a new car every year you're screwed
 
I'm due to change my car in 2017. Just have to make sure delivery is on or before 31st March.
No expensive 1st year and ongoing tax at the current rate. If I opt for another 2.0D with 108Gm/Km emissions it will still just be £20 a year.
 
Yep...looks like March 2017 will be a busy month for the dealers:racer:
 
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h5djr said:
Personally I'm not bothered about the increase in VED providing they stick to what was said in the Budget that the money will be 'ring fenced' to go to road costs and road improvements. The was the original reason for the Road Fund Licence in the first place but over the years the money raised has been used for all sorts of other purposes and not put in to our road system.

I certainly agree the cars like the e-tron's should pay the same £140 per year as other vehicles. The VED is supposed to be about road use and not CO2. By all means charge an initially lower amount for less CO2 but the annual amount should be the same for all cars. After all the e-tron's still get a £5,000 tax-payer fund discount. All vehicles create CO2 emissions, whether it's at the exhaust pipe or the power station.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree that we e-tron owners should pay VED, however I and possibly others run mostly in EV mode which is powered from 0% CO2 electricity.
 
jetron said:
I don't disagree that we e-tron owners should pay VED, however I and possibly others run mostly in EV mode which is powered from 0% CO2 electricity.
Click to expand...
Hardly. How is the electricity used to charge your e-tron generated. By a power station that could be gas or coal fired which produced quite a lot of C02. When you do more than the 30 miles on electric power and the 1.4 petrol takes over then it creates just as much if not more, because of the extra weight of the batteries, than a normal 1.4 petrol A3. It may work out less overall that a normal car/mile but is certainly not zero.
 
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I think he means he's on a tariff that provides electricity exclusively from renewables.
 
a3_phil said:
I think he means he's on a tariff that provides electricity exclusively from renewables.
Click to expand...
Spot on Phil, Ecotricity have advised that their electricity supply is now 0% CO2. Apart from the fact that 95% of my journeys are less than 10 miles, I recharge using solar PV 75% of the time, hence my original post.
 
Plenty of people seem to buy a new stock car to save a lot of money hence not to their exact spec so i can't see why there wouldn't be an increase in people buying one year old cars to save a high year 1 VED.
 
Let's not get into an argument concerning other things, but when deciding on my car I set a budget for pretty much three things:-

1. Purchase price/monthly PC cost
2. Fixed running costs - insurance/tax
3. Variable running costs - fuel/servicing

I found I could get an S3 and met this criteria. I won't lie, it was a bit of a stretch but I didn't want to compromise on extras as it was a significant investment and i wanted to be perfectly happy. I managed to just about get point 1 in budget, point 3 should be broadly what i'm paying now plus a small increase for economy and use of premium fuel which i budgeted for. Finally point 2 i wanted similar insurance and tax as i'm paying now which it roughly is (maybe about £30 more per year insurance). Under the new system i'd pay £320 more OTR (ie year 1 VED) and then paying £270 per year more in tax thereafter (£450 vs £180).

So, under the new system the S3 wouldn't have come under consideration. I'd probably have gone for a similar car emissions wise but it would have been cheaper therefore having no positive environmental impact just meaning the government would receive less tax from me and less income in VAT through car purchase price.
 
sam_sykes said:
I suppose this was inevitable - car tax can't keep going down for new cars without the money rolling in to the government. It makes sense.
Click to expand...

Also because of EU regulations, car manufacturers have had to greatly reduced carbon emissions for modern cars. Revenue from this, so called carbon tax, must have been dropping a lot. Like you say, it makes sense for the government.

The flat rate of £140 does surprise me. At least the current system encourages everyone to buy a more modern less polluting car. Will be surprised if the green lobby don't have a few things to say about this.
 
I have no problems with the currently sliding scale of vehicle tax and if they just reduced the bands to reflect reducing emissions levels it would have been fine, but to put a purchase cost figure in like they have to trigger what are very high additional costs for the first 5 years is crazy. I'm being treated as someone wealthy who "can afford to pay it" whereas in truth i prefer to do without expensive overseas holidays and golf club memberships etc to have a nicer car so it's not like i've more money, it's just what i am choosing to do with the money i have.
 
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I'll eat my hat if it's not based on list price plus list price of options.

Otherwise you'd be in the ridiculous situation of two people in identical cars being taxed differently by the government. Dealers can offer special deals to inviduals but the government has to (at least strive to be) even handed in taxation.
 
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Let's just say for sake of argument it's just based on base list price and not optional extras, you can have the crazy situation of exactly the same car attracting a higher VED level in it's launch year then if the list is reduced following a refresh it attracts a lower rate. Or you may have a 3 door variant with a lower tax burden than 5 door. Is there anyone that can see any logic or fairness in this new system?
 
The Challinor said:
I was hoping I was wrong but secretly new I was right.

That's mental. Are the bands changing for old cars then too?

I can see a lot of cars being discounted to £39,999 assuming it's invoice price and not list price!
Click to expand...

Only for vehicles registered after 1st April 2017.
 
The Challinor said:
I can see a lot of cars being discounted to £39,999 assuming it's invoice price and not list price!
Click to expand...

I would be happy to pay a lower base price and £10000 for delivery..LOL

As I said in a previous post the government has not thought this through, its total madness and just an arbitrary figure and will only raise nominal amount of revenue and destabilize the high end car market, I predict this will never actually make it into a bill

List price, before VAT would suit me as would still keep the Porsche Macan S just in range of my dreams
 
a3_phil said:
I'll eat my hat if it's not based on list price plus list price of options.

Otherwise you'd be in the ridiculous situation of two people in identical cars being taxed differently by the government. Dealers can offer special deals to inviduals but the government has to (at least strive to be) even handed in taxation.
Click to expand...

Yer your right
 
Daveotto said:
I would be happy to pay a lower base price and £10000 for delivery..LOL

As I said in a previous post the government has not thought this through, its total madness and just an arbitrary figure and will only raise nominal amount of revenue and destabilize the high end car market, I predict this will never actually make it into a bill

List price, before VAT would suit me as would still keep the Porsche Macan S just in range of my dreams
Click to expand...

It's a load of bull ****, so it's not passed into law yet then?

If your Porsche is just below 40K hopefully you won't be adding any options or the government will shaft you.
 
The Challinor said:
It's a load of bull ****, so it's not passed into law yet then?

If your Porsche is just below 40K hopefully you won't be adding any options or the government will shaft you.
Click to expand...

No, Not passed yet

The Porsche is just a dream at moment, not got the S3 yet.....LOl................ but base list (inc VAT) is around £45K so got about £10K of options to play with (in my dreams) but they would go fast as a steering wheel is an optional extra in a Porsche!!!!!
 
I can't see it including optional extras tbh, if it does it's not really fair, I mean u could have a bog standard car with no extras at a price of say 33k, on the other hand you could have the same car with all the extras such as better stereo, better seats, better lights, nav system and a few body panels painted black etc etc but this one now exceeds 40k, both cars producing the same emissions........ It doesn't make sense that the guy who splashed out and loaded his car should pay more road tax than the other guy. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there are cars with lower emissions priced over 40k than some cars priced under 40k, how is it fair if in that situation the guy with the more eco friendly but more expensive car should pay more road tax?! It's ridiculous!
 
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Tony1982 said:
I can't see it including optional extras tbh, if it does it's not really fair, I mean u could have a bog standard car with no extras at a price of say 33k, on the other hand you could have the same car with all the extras such as better stereo, better seats, better lights, nav system and a few body panels painted black etc etc but this one now exceeds 40k, both cars producing the same emissions........ It doesn't make sense that the guy who splashed out and loaded his car should pay more road tax than the other guy. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there are cars with lower emissions priced over 40k than some cars priced under 40k, how is it fair if in that situation the guy with the more eco friendly but more expensive car should pay more road tax?! It's ridiculous!
Click to expand...

It's clearly moved away from any emissions rating (apart from the 1st year VED) though and just on to a tax for those who buy slightly more expensive cars.
 
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