Car runs fine but by god loads of blue smoke..

Soot1 said:
See what you mean there, our A3 doesn't throw out blue smoke after running a few minutes, black smoke happens only on brisk acceleration. It's because of the expense of running TDI's I'm moving away from DERVs, just one thing after another and always expensive. Even some Councils are demonising DERV's now saying it's the devils fuel.
Petrol engines are still relatively simple and quite efficient these days.
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Yeah if I could go back in time I would be driving a tfsi right now
 
Turns out the cars also due a software update too. I thought main dealers checked this as part of a service?
 
I have mixed emotions, car definately runs smoother but no difference to the smoke pouring out the back. The garage did a full scan and found nothing took it for a run and monitored stuff (God knows what) and said it all looks great via vcds. They say the DPF is at 8.6% which is strange as I'm sure I was told 40% by another garage a few months back, unless I miss heard and it was 14%:meeting:

I'm guessing the only thing left is compression check, and remove tandem pump and check for contamination although the car is using no oil between services so I doubt the later is the issue.

Any ideas on labour time to do the compression test? I've no idea how it's done?
 
Just a thought steve, maybe you are letting this smoke thing get the better of you , maybe it is not that bad but you've become a bit overly worried by it now.
I had a look at your starting post and all the work you have had done on the engine alone, surely with all that done to it there cant be any issues left.
there is one solution that will work, get black tinted rear windows.tailgate and mirror glass fitted, that way all will look great and you'll never know any different.
good luck with it, and, if you're thinking going tfsi would have been a better option you , don't fool yourself mate as all is not fine and dandy in our world either, just different engines with different issues.
 
Was the car running smoke free before the injector recall? I know of afew Skodas and VW's that had subsequent problems after the recall, one owner even had the dealer swap back his old injectors but that was due to misfiring.
Sorry if you have covered this idea before.
 
Soot1 said:
Was the car running smoke free before the injector recall? I know of afew Skodas and VW's that had subsequent problems after the recall, one owner even had the dealer swap back his old injectors but that was due to misfiring.
Sorry if you have covered this idea before.
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Unfortunately I don't know as the recall was completed by previous owner.
 
A4Rob said:
Just a thought steve, maybe you are letting this smoke thing get the better of you , maybe it is not that bad but you've become a bit overly worried by it now.
I had a look at your starting post and all the work you have had done on the engine alone, surely with all that done to it there cant be any issues left.
there is one solution that will work, get black tinted rear windows.tailgate and mirror glass fitted, that way all will look great and you'll never know any different.
good luck with it, and, if you're thinking going tfsi would have been a better option you , don't fool yourself mate as all is not fine and dandy in our world either, just different engines with different issues.
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got to be honest if I hadn't done/spent so much the car would be up for sale tommorow, it really is quite bad and I was so depressed on the drive home. Every tech that gets in it for a test drive with me starts with "yeah they all smoke" followed by, " oh, that is a lot of smoke, not good at all"
 
is there anywhere near you with a rolling road steve, maybe that way the problem and colour/volume of smoke can be seen on the spot and further diags performed from that, its a diesel engine at the end of the day so the problem can only be within a specific range of parts, I cant understand why any of the garages are having such a problem diagnosing it for you to be honest.
 
Yeah you would have thought it could be diagnosed easily but apparently not:(

Just get the same lines when 1st contacting garages, it's a diesel they all have smoke poring out of them. Followed by oh, actually that is quite bad, then followed by we see lots of 170's like this it's just how they are. Then I say surely they didn't smoke from new so they must have some mechanical issue as they age like bore wear to which the answer today was well yes you may be right there:keule:

Yeah keep saying I'm going to get the thing on a rolling road and never do. Maybe I should pull my finger outa my **** and just do it :p
 
have a read through this article steve, it may not make you feel any better , but, it may help clarify what is going with your engine any what the possible causes may be for black or blue smoke or both if youre really unlucky.

Diesel Smoke tells YOU a Story...
Diesel Smoke tells YOU a Story
Basically, smoke from a diesel engine indicates that something is not right. It should be taken as an indication that there is a problem existing (or developing), that will potentially shorten the engine life, or result in unnecessary costs. It should be regarded as an opportunity to take measures that will save you money in both the long term and also the short term. At the least, that smoke may be due to a simple problem, that is causing poor combustion efficiency, and costing you in excessive fuel bills (eg carboned up engine from excessive idling, stop start operation or short run times). At the other end of the scale, it may be your last chance to act, before a catastrophic engine failure occurs (eg piston seizure, valve or turbocharger failure).
A diesel engine in good condition should produce no visible smoke from the exhaust, under most operating conditions. A short puff of smoke when an engine is accelerated under load may be acceptable, due to the lag before the turbocharger speed and air flow is able to match the volume of diesel injected into the cylinders. That would only apply to older technology diesel engines, but with modern type diesels, no smoke at all should be evident.
There are three basic types of smoke, as identifiable by their colour.
Black smoke is the most common smoke emitted from diesel engines. It indicates poor and incomplete combustion of the diesel fuel. There are many causes, including
  • Incorrect timing
  • Dirty or worn injectors
  • Injectors sticking open too long (Common Rail Diesel type)
  • Over-fuelling
  • Faulty turbocharger (ie not enough air to match the fuel)
  • Incorrect valve clearance
  • Incorrect air/fuel ratio
  • Low cylinder compression (eg sticking piston rings or worn components)
  • Dirty air cleaner
  • Restricted induction system (eg system too small or kinked inlet piping)
  • Carboned up intake manifolds (esp Common Rail Diesels)
  • Other engine tune factors
  • Poor quality fuel
  • Excessive carbon build up in combustion and exhaust spaces
  • Cool operating temperatures

Obviously, worn or damaged components must be replaced, and the earlier you identify and fix the problem, the less damage will be done. Keep on top of engine tune issues, including valve adjustments, and regular servicing of air, fuel and oil filters. Do not buy fuel from suspect outlets. Dirty components, such as injectors can be easily restored to full cleanliness by using an effective and reliable fuel system cleaner. If you choose from our range of products, Cleanpower is what you need.
Common rail diesels are the new hi-tech breed of diesel to meet ever increasing emission standards. Operating pressures and temperatures are several times higher than older technology, and tolerances are much finer, making them more susceptible to fuel and deposit issues. Injectors and pumps are naturally more expensive, but problems can, and do, melt pistons and destroy engines. CRD Fuel Enhancer is fast becoming the standard for correcting and prevention in Australia.
Cleaning of internals of engines has usually only been possible at overhaul, however, Cost Effective Maintenance provide two products to enable vehicle and equipment owners to quickly, safely and cheaply restore full cleanliness to combustion and exhaust spaces (FTC Decarbonizer) as well as piston rings, oil pumps, oil galleries, oil coolers, piston skirts, valve gear, etc (Flushing Oil Concentrate).
Black smoke is high in carbon or soot, which is an undesirable product of diesel combustion. Now, the combustion of diesel is a complicated process of breaking down the various hydrocarbon fuel molecules into progressively smaller and smaller molecules, by burning in the presence of oxygen. The main and ideal end products of combustion are CO2 and H2O (carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas and water). It is believed that the last step in the process is carbon monoxide (the poisonous gas) to carbon dioxide. This is also the slowest step by far, and when combustion conditions deteriorate some upstream bottle necking occurs in the chain of combustion reactions. This results (according to some authorities) in polymerization of smaller partly burnt molecules into much larger ones, which become visible as soot, or black smoke.
Blue smoke is an indication of oil being burnt. The oil can enter the combustion chamber for several reasons.
  • Worn valve guides or seals
  • Wear in power assemblies (ie cylinders, piston rings, ring grooves)
  • Cylinder glaze
  • Piston ring sticking
  • Incorrect grade of oil (eg oil too thin, and migrating past the rings)
  • Fuel dilution in the oil (oil thinned out with diesel)
At cold start, blue smoke is often evident, and can reflect reduced oil control, due to fouling deposits around piston rings or cylinder glaze (which is actually carbon deposited in the machined cylinder crosshatching. These tiny grooves actually hold a film of oil, which in turn completes the seal between the combustion chamber and the oil wetted crankcase). Blue smoke should not be evident at any time, but it is worth noting, that engines with good sound compression can actually burn quite a lot of oil without evidence of blue smoke. Good compression allows oil to burn cleanly, as part of the fuel. It is not good though!
>Once again, restore physical cleanliness to all components. Replace worn parts where necessary. In some situations, where the engines are pretty worn, but you just need to keep them in service, cleaning with the previously mentioned products, followed by effective additional anti-wear protection, will reduce internal stresses on all those tired components, providing extended service life. Our AW10 Antiwear achieves this for many of our customers.
White smoke occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include
  • Faulty or damaged injectors
  • Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).
  • Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)
When white smoke occurs at cold start, and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing. Use of our Flushing Oil Concentrate and FTC Decarbonizer address these respective problems.
Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame. Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.
 
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Thanks rob, interesting read. I definately have no black smoke blue/grey haze is the best way I could describe it
 
Not sure what else to suggest ,its a really nice car steve and its a real shame after all you have done to have such a problem with it.
On the one hand as its so nice etc it seems like the next step would be to get it fixed whatever the problem is, but at what cost, there has to be a limit on what is sensible to keep spending on a car no matter how nice it is etc.
I've been there so many times in the past, in a way I've been lucky with my a4, all the issues I've had since purchasing it have been repaired under the audi warranty and as such the repairs have cost me zero, but, they could have cost me many thousands by now so I cant really ask for more. The turbo replacement issue as it turned out wasn't covered by audi but they agreed to do the whole repair as a goodwill gesture so again I cant complain, but had things been different without any warranty I would have parted company with it long ago.
 
Well I have one small ray of light....

This mornings cold (2 degree outside temp and frost on car) start was far better than before. Car was not lumpy at all and absolutely no smoke at all on idle.
 
frost on car:eek:, where are you...;)
well there is one answer steve, live in a cold area.....
 
A4Rob said:
frost on car:eek:, where are you...;)
well there is one answer steve, live in a cold area.....
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Yep, I had to scrape the windows today. Still had the smoke under load, but cold start idle seems to have ben resolved
 
I'd imagine that you may well have already been down this route Steve, but is there anyone within the group you work for who could be set a 'technical challenge' or point you in the direction of a really good diesel specialists ? Apologies of course if you've already extinguished this option.....
Really hope you get it sorted, with all the tlc levied on your car, it really should do the right thing and get itself in shape !!!
 
Mine was doing something similar, had the timing belt changed and boom! Cured. Car drives completely different. No smoke, no lumpy tick over, better fuel. It was running advanced retarded. Not sure if this has been done but could be worth a crack
 
I had this same problem with my 1.9tdi, Audi looked at my car and noticed the egr valve was clogged, they cleaned out my egr valve and problem solved :)
 
Hi all thanks for the comments been off line for a few days as on holiday in sunny (cold and wet!) North Wales and this is the 1st time I've found some free wifi.

Anyway I don't want to jinx things but... What with new cam belt (set properly) and ecu update the car may just have needed a few days / couple of hundred miles to recalibrate and sort things out as on the journey up here I didn't notice any excessive smoke from exhausts, just the occasional bit when booted. Like I say Im not going to say it's all sorted just yet but I am hopeful :)
 
OK my hope was missed placed as the car still appears to be on 20 B&H a day. Must have been all that holiday luggage stacked up against the rear window blocking 80% of my view which gave me false hope.

I've decided to take Gary's advice and book the car in at a diesel specialist for a couple of hours investigation. I've chose a garage near to me called Midland Diesel Solutions in Hinckley http://www.midlanddieselsolutions.co.uk/ has anyone ever used or heard of them before?
 
only 20 a day, could be worse steve, 40 silk cut a day....;), anyway hope you get to the bottom of it this time round, I can help thinking that there is a very easy answer to your problem , It's just that knowone seems to be able to see it:keule:

good luck with it .
 
Stab in the dark time, If you always fill up at the same garage how about trying a different one.

You mentioned Blue smoke, which is usually caused by burning oil. Oil can get into the combustion chamber through the worn rings, valves and induction system. My thought on this is excessive crankcase pressure is pushing oil into the combustion chamber , one way or another. Clogged breather pipes are the most obvious cause.
 
yep as above with soot1, I had a chat with a guy this evening about our tractor engines and happen to mention steve's issues, blue smoke is burning oil and that will bring down the possible causes to a handful , if high mileage then probably oil getting pass the rings or valves, maybe both or excessive crankcase pressure forcing oil back in, but what ever it is any good diesel specialist should be able to diagnose it without a problem.
 
Ok thanks guys I will mention this to the garage when I drop it off with them
 
Is it going in today Steve ? I've just re-read the whole of this thread while having my morning cuppa, pottering around..........
I'd really try and document all of the things that have been replaced / checked previously just to ensure that the specialist have all of the relevant info, hoping that an approach from a different angle ,ie, that of a diesel spec'st , shed some light on the issue. When they take it for a run they'll see that it's blue/grey smoke and concentrate on investigating the oil contamination into the combustion chamber - however it's getting there.
Hope it goes well and something positive comes from the work today.
 
Hi Gary,

No not today I'm going to book it in either Friday afternoon or Saturday morning if they have space.

I'm a bit weird as I keep a spread sheet of all work carried out on car, description of work/parts, mileage, date, invoice number, garage/parts supplier. Its a bit scary when I add up the cost so far after just 10 months of ownership:eek:

I will update this thread after the garage have taken a look at it.

One thing I can do to fix it is only drive in the rain as I couldn't see any smoke in the rear view mirror today whilst it was ******* it down:p
 
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Soot1 said:
Stab in the dark time, If you always fill up at the same garage how about trying a different one.

You mentioned Blue smoke, which is usually caused by burning oil. Oil can get into the combustion chamber through the worn rings, valves and induction system. My thought on this is excessive crankcase pressure is pushing oil into the combustion chamber , one way or another. Clogged breather pipes are the most obvious cause.
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Actually with the exception of filling the car up when I purchased it and one desperate incident of using a tenner's worth of supermarket fuel, I have only ever used one garage, maybe I should try BP Ultimate instead of the usual Shell V Power. Good shout, it cant do any harm :)
 
You would expect BP Ultimate should be ok but yes worth trying something else.

Another thought crossed my mind as well, Are you religiously keeping your oil level up to Max on the dipstick when dipping it cold? as with most cars. Hope you are aware of the Audi Handbook method on this, it should be done when warm and the oil level should never be above the Max mark.
 
Soot1 said:
You would expect BP Ultimate should be ok but yes worth trying something else.

Another thought crossed my mind as well, Are you religiously keeping your oil level up to Max on the dipstick when dipping it cold? as with most cars. Hope you are aware of the Audi Handbook method on this, it should be done when warm and the oil level should never be above the Max mark.
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Well this is the thing, I've never had to top up the oil (albeit with all the work I've had done the oil has been changed every 3 or 4k) which kind of confuses things with regards to my issue being burnt oil:think:
 
just a shot in the dark steve, have you had a compression check carried out since your ownership, this may help narrow down the cause a bit as it will indicate wether you have leaking bore either by nature of stuck or worn rings , or, poor valve seating or both.
Its the blue smoke description, that suggest a more specific type of engine issue over white/grey or black smoke.
 
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A4Rob said:
just a shot in the dark steve, have you had a compression check carried out since your ownership, this may help narrow down the cause a bit as it will indicate wether you have leaking bore either by nature of stuck or worn rings , or, poor valve seating or both.
Its the blue smoke description, that suggest a more specific type of engine issue over white/grey or black smoke.
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Not yet but this is the 1st check I've asked them to do on Friday.
 
Well had the car checked over today and they have found a couple of problems, one of which really ****** me off for the fact many other garages that say they've done a full diagnostic but not seen any problems:mad:

Fault 001025 EGR system P0401 006 insufficient flow - intermittent

And the other being very slight compression loss picked up via electronic test

Going to start buy having egr removed, cleaned and tested. If it's knackered it's no problem as its under warranty.

If that doesn't fix it then going to have mechanical compression test done to see if it's valve seals or rings.

At last I'm getting some answers:)
 
well that's sort of good news then:), i'd be asking the other garages why they hadn't found the same .....especially if had been in to audi dealers:mad:. but i'm not surpised steve, when I had my avant go in for the turbo issue, I spoke to them and asked about what their diags had come up with, they said they had not run any at that stage and were using the data sheet I supplied from my vcds print out., they only ran a diag after the repair had been completed.

hope your on the home straight with it now.

good luck chap.
 
i am hopeful once again but will remain reserved until i see results. Good thing is they are well cheap, £27 for today and quoted £50 plus vat to remove, clean (ultasonic clean) & test egr valve:)
 
Well at least there's some answers this time, hopefully leading to a successful conclusion ! Good that the price for today's work was reasonable too :icon thumright:
 
Left my update for a few days to see how things went... last week I had the EGR valve removed cleaned benched tested (nothing wrong found with it) EGR restrictor gasket was replaced for standard gasket on reassembly

I am going back to the same garage to have a more detailed compression check. They're using some PecoScope kit which apparently can tell you if the compression loss is either the an inlet valve, exhaust valve or piston ring wear all by using a probe stuck in the stuck up the exhaust to measure exhaust pressure waves or something like that :confused:
 
Well the EGR valve didn't sort it so I'm assuming the error was either a glitch or was a side affect of the restrictor gasket.

I have to wait a few more weeks for the garage to buy this new kit then I'm going back for compression test number two
 
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